Viscosity Breakdown in Oils

[jcruse64]

I was looking to try the 0-30 oil this last change, but all i found in local stores was the European spec label, so I backed off this time. Didn't know if it met Jeeps requirement for the Etorque 3.6.

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[UncleJimmy]

I'd like to also add that the engineers that designed our engines, and those who designed every other modern engine out there, are well aware of this, and draft their oil requirements accordingly.

And yet this same engineer advises against using Stop/Start as it will "eat the engine alive".

Nothing is more economically important to an automaker than drivetrain longevity. So no, they are not going to knowingly "sacrifice statistical reductions in engine life for fuel economy". Especially when we're talking about a significant reduction in engine life for what amounts to statistically insignificant increase in efficiency. They aren't going to knowingly risk having engines blowing up at 80k miles just to get a 0.01mpg increase.

The OEMs are not choosing this, they are compelled by regulations, and all of them are suffering the same issues, to a greater or lesser extent. Toyota, arguably, the world's best engine maker is now using plastic engine parts, recommending high OCI, low viscosity/high volatility oils ("lifetime" coolant/trans fluid) and their engines are failing from clogged/stuck piston rings leading to bore scoring and oil consumption. The only difference is the Pentastar is relatively cheaper to repair if caught early (for lifter issue), where the Toyota needs a new short block.

so what’s the best oil we should be using in our amazing 3.6 ?

Maintenance frequency for engine oil, coolant, gear oils etc is more important than what type, brand, weight etc. If you want decent life from your car, then half the OEM recommended interval from 10k mi to 5k mi. If you want to keep the vehicle for a long time, then half it again, so OCI at 2500 mi. A good rule of thumb is 3/30/30 rule: 3000 mi OCI, 30k mi coolant/trans/gear oils etc.

If you want a little bit more, then choose a better oil but don't go overboard. If you change the oil more frequently, don't pay top dollar for oil. The best value IMHO is API SP with Euro certs such as MB229.5/51/52, BMW LL01 or LL04, Porsche A40/C40 etc. All of these approvals have minimum HTHS (high temp/high sheer) of 3.5cP which is a measurement of what your engine sees in terms of wear protection - the higher the better. Any Porsche A40/C40 is also track tested. Castrol and Mobil 1 are the best bang for the buck. I use 0w-40 but 0w/5w-30 are good as well.

For 5 quarts (around $30 and a filter every other oil change at $10) I average $35 per oil change at 2500k mi/3 mo intervals. For me that's 4 OC per year for a grand total of $140.

I’m in South Carolina, 25 to 95 degrees normally. Mine is a Pentastar V6 daily driver, not really any harsh conditions. I off road occasionally. I change my oil every 5k. I have been using 0w-20 fully synthetic, but had considered going with a thicker viscosity. What are your recommendations? Thanks in advance.

See above.

Since this is the internet, I must voice an opinion not matter what knowledge I can bring onto the subject.

Any Pentastar engineer has no credibility. Every other manufacturer with a chain driven overhead valve dual VVT head manages to get their engine to last 250,000 miles. A Pentastar is on - what the 13th? - revision of the followers and they still regularly wipe the cam. A single stage thermostat ensures that the engine runs hotter than it needs to. Every time you start the engine from overnight you get to hear the valve run without oil. No other engine I've ever driven does this. The oil cooler seals fail. Cylinder heads fail. I'd just love to see the raw warranty data compared with other manufacturers.

So bad that I got the small 4 cylinder overly complex Italian rattle box this time around.

I understand where you are coming from and I can agree to a certain extent, however, all the OEMs are having issues. It's not too bad to fix if caught early enough and there are steps that can be taken to mitigate the issues (remove AUX battery, disable stop start, address cooling, oils etc).

I love this V6/Wrangler. The JL/JT is the best off roader there is and relatively reliable, and fun to drive on and off road. They need to work on prices but that's a bigger issue.

I was looking to try the 0-30 oil this last change, but all i found in local stores was the European spec label, so I backed off this time. Didn't know if it met Jeeps requirement for the Etorque 3.6.

See above answer.

 

[21 Willys]

Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30. It has a cSt of 12.0 at 100°C against a cSt range of 9.3 to 12.5 for xW-30 oils, which makes it a very "thick" xW-30 oil.

It holds viscosity through the full oil change of 5K miles. It worked well in my 3.6L and my 2.7L in my Bronco which has significant fuel dilution and destroyed Motorcraft 5W-30 in about 1K miles turning it into a thin xW-20 viscosity.

Thanks for your input and info. Per recommendations from Old Dogger and roaniecowponie, I used Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30 when I changed my oil this past Friday. I appreciate everyone’s input!

 

[CarbonSteel]

Yeah im a preferred customer with Amsoil but I believe the M1 ESP is at least the equal to signature.

Agree; 100% and M1 ESP ($6-$8 per QT) is cheaper than Amsoil SS ($12 per QT + shipping costs), especially if you catch it on sale at O'Reilly's since they have free delivery and allow discount codes to be used for oil purchases.

I am running it year-round in Colorado. Based upon what I saw in a few ESP PDS sheets, it meets or exceeds requirements for API SP, but does not for ILSAC GF-6--but I would opine that is because at 12.2 cSt (viscosity of the oil at 100°C), it is not considered a "fuel savings" oil.

With that said, given the approvals (not weasel words like engineered for use that Amsoil uses) M1 ESP has from MB, Porsche, and VW including ACEA C3, I would M1 ESP is more than equal to Amsoil Signature Series.

Mobil 1 ESP Product Data Sheet:

https://www.mobil.com/en-in/passenger-vehicle-lube/pds/sp-xx-mobil-1-esp-0w-30

ACEA C3 Specifications:

https://360.lubrizol.com/Specifications/ACEA-Passenger/ACEA-2021/ACEA-C3-21

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