Maximum load for reverse pulling in a recovery.

[J0E]

@Beachcomber72 had an excellent recovery post which you can read by selecting the following link:

10. Never use your JL or JLU to pull someone while you are going in reverse. You will absolutely destroy your clutch or automatic transmission.

I've frequently done light (less than what I estimate is 3,000 lbs) recoveries. What's the safe limit? The recovery expert, MattsOffRoadRecovery, frequently does low load reverse pulls such as in this video. If I can't pull it in low range reverse at 1,200 RPM (4:1 Rby xfer case), it's time to pull forwards.

I yanked an one it's side TJ up a steep hill with my 1.25" kinetic rope, but that was very little strain on the driveline as I got a big run and let momentum take over. All the other Jeep folks were saying, You'll ruin your gears/diveline/tranny/etc, but that's actually a not a large strain on them.

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[dragoneggs]

@Beachcomber72 had an excellent recovery post which you can read by selecting the following link:



I've frequently done light (less than what I estimate is 3,000 lbs) recoveries. What's the safe limit? The recovery expert, MattsOffRoadRecovery, frequently does low load reverse pulls such as in this video. If I can't pull it in low range reverse at 1,200 RPM (4:1 Rby xfer case), it's time to pull forwards.

I yanked an one it's side TJ up a steep hill with my 1.25" kinetic rope, but that was very little strain on the driveline as I got a big run and let momentum take over. All the other Jeep folks were saying, You'll ruin your gears/diveline/tranny/etc, but that's actually a not a large strain on them.

I'm sure you know that's thick rope for average vehicle weight recoveries. You want the stretch to reduce the shock.

 

[J0E]

I'm sure you know that's thick rope for average vehicle weight recoveries. You want the stretch to reduce the shock.

I've yanked hard multiple times and it's really pretty smooth, much better than the kinetic chain we used in the 70's. On that pull and a deep mud pull, I would have broken the standard 7/8" rope. I was amazed at the friction the TJ had on it's side. After I yanked it up the hill 20 feet where we had more room to work, my friend showed up with his winch. He tried pulling it a little more, and the winch pulled his and my jeep down the hill.

 

[jessedacri]

@Beachcomber72 had an excellent recovery post which you can read by selecting the following link:



I've frequently done light (less than what I estimate is 3,000 lbs) recoveries. What's the safe limit? The recovery expert, MattsOffRoadRecovery, frequently does low load reverse pulls such as in this video. If I can't pull it in low range reverse at 1,200 RPM (4:1 Rby xfer case), it's time to pull forwards.

I yanked an one it's side TJ up a steep hill with my 1.25" kinetic rope, but that was very little strain on the driveline as I got a big run and let momentum take over. All the other Jeep folks were saying, You'll ruin your gears/diveline/tranny/etc, but that's actually a not a large strain on them.

I'm pretty sure I've heard Matt warn against reverse pulling for the average vehicle in his videos while setting up to do a reverse pull. I wish I could find where it was mentioned so I get his reasoning right here but it was well before he had the Morrvair so difficult to dig up. He gave specific reasons as to his axle setup, possibly a low pinion D60 in the front(could be talking completely out my ass here though) or something - I'll try to find the video again.

Generally though I think the concern is putting a bunch of load on the coast side of the ring and pinion gear. When turning in reverse direction the load-bearing surfaces are not aligned to couple into each other as they do in the normal direction.

 

[dragoneggs]

I've yanked hard multiple times and it's really pretty smooth, much better than the kinetic chain we used in the 70's. On that pull and a deep mud pull, I would have broken the standard 7/8" rope. I was amazed at the friction the TJ had on it's side. After I yanked it up the hill 20 feet where we had more room to work, my friend showed up with his winch. He tried pulling it a little more, and the winch pulled his and my jeep down the hill.

Definitely I get the deep mud pull with 7/8. I'm a 2dr now so I don't want to pretend I am a recovery vehicle for other much bigger boys. I don't mean to be selfish but my recovery gear package is sized for me. If I can help others... great but I don't expect to be other than my own hero on the trail.

 

[Beachcomber72]

I've yanked hard multiple times and it's really pretty smooth, much better than the kinetic chain we used in the 70's. On that pull and a deep mud pull, I would have broken the standard 7/8" rope. I was amazed at the friction the TJ had on it's side. After I yanked it up the hill 20 feet where we had more room to work, my friend showed up with his winch. He tried pulling it a little more, and the winch pulled his and my jeep down the hill.

Appreciate the mention from my recovery post, but please don’t take my word as the gospel. I’m by no means a recover expert but I do take it more serious than most others by a long shot. Made mistakes sure… early on was a learning curve with multiple odd situations and ground terrain and soil conditions.

Once again, living directly on the coast here in Galveston, Texas directly on the beach front I’ve seen way too many fails and injuries and accidents and including 5 deaths from bad recoveries in the last 17 years of us doing what we do daily in regards to vehicle recovery. Some absolutely horrible stuff, tragic and because of stupidity.

But on to your question of the validity and or potential harm in pulling someone out using your JL front hooks while going in reverse, I’m not 100% sure. Specifics wise or technical recommendations of doing such. I’ve just never seen a JL or JLU not end up having severe transmission issues after doing so.

We’ve actually documented eleven JL models since their inception in 2018 having automatic transmissions that had complete trans failures while struggling to recover a buried car or truck in deep soft sand and or buried in deep marsh mud on the bay side of the island. All of the trans failure Jeeps were pulling in reverse only.

I can’t say what internally fails but it’s obviously catastrophic. We haven’t seen these same failures on the JK guys and gals over the years. So it’s definitely something to do with the new 8 speed setup. I wish someone from Jeep could chime in on this.

Now with this being talked about, it’s always an unsafe practice in reverse as it is, given most idiots are staring directly at the vehicle they are pulling and not paying attention to what’s going on behind their vehicle. Two, if anything fails on your gear you’re that much closer to personal injury when things come flying at you. I’d also suggest for those that are stationary in park while using their which to pull someone out that you keep your hood propped up as you are winching. Or use your wireless remote and stay far from the pulling action or behind a door if you’re on the short wired winch switch.

Just always keep safety as the number one priority and don’t go beyond your physical means or your vehicle’s mechanical means. It’s just not worth it for snatching up your buddies f250 out of a mud hole so you can damage your vehicle or kill his girlfriend in the passenger seat because you want to play some sort of off-road hero. There is no such thing!!!!

(stay safe brother, and if I find out any specifics on the transmission stuff I’ll gladly chime back in or hit you up.)

 

[dragoneggs]

Think about it... sure, the engineers have normal towing down and have nothing to do... so hey let's design transmissions to tow in reverse... I've always wanted that feature!

 

[Beachcomber72]

Think about it... sure, the engineers have normal towing down and have nothing to do... so hey let's design transmissions to tow in reverse... I've always wanted that feature!

Yep, I know people do it all day long in all types of vehicles but never been a valid option to me. But once again I know it’s being done so… Hopefully it works out for those folks.

 

[Dan M.]

Good info here. This is my first Jeep and I wouldn't have ever thought of any of this. Quick question, why are so many of you up at 3:00am?

 

[Beachcomber72]

Good info here. This is my first Jeep and I wouldn't have ever thought of any of this. Quick question, why are so many of you up at 3:00am?

Me well I’m always on call for the search and rescue team here and I generally have been a night person, plus I’m retired and want to live out all hours I can while I still have some. The beach is most peaceful and quiet at night.

It’s probably also the fact that by midnight I’m on RedBull # 5 and start #6 shortly after and just can’t sleep by the time I’m ready to lay down.

 

[6.2Blazer]

Typical internet trend when the difference between two different things gets way exaggerated! It starts out as "method A is a little better than method B" but quickly turns into "method A is the only way to do it and method B will cause the vehicle to explode and kill a bus full of nuns.....". Sarcasm aside this conversation is really not that far off as people are saying you will destroy the vehicle if you try pulling in reverse.

Yes, vehicles are generally "stronger" when pulling forward. If you look at automotive design the rear axles, drivetrain, etc... are generally always stronger. When pulling forward the weight transfers to the rear tires and puts more load/stress on the rear. There are some parts that by design are a little stronger going forward versus reverse. If reasonably possible I always recommend pulling going forward, and especially if you have to really tug hard on somebody. However reasonable pulls can occur in reverse without having to worry about failures. So maybe for an example you can pull going forward at 100% power, but if going in reverse pulling maybe you want to stay around 75%-80%. Keep in mind that while a truck will spend a majority of it's life going forward when towing they are designed to be able to back up the trailer! From my years of being around farming and construction work, backing up a trailer can lead to some serious stress on the vehicles.

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