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ZF contradicts FCA on ZF8 "Lifetime" transmission fluid

BillyHW

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Hey guys,

I've been doing some research on the ZF8's supposedly "lifetime" transmission fluid. I've even scoured some Audi and Bimmer forums for information, so you don't have to. :captain:

All of FCA's 2017 owners manuals for the various vehicles that use the ZF8 (i.e. Chrysler 200, RAM 1500 etc.) specify that the ZF8 fluid is lifetime and never needs to be changed. They don't even specify a severe duty fluid change interval for it.

However ZF explicitly recommends a 100,000 km or 8 year (whichever comes first) fluid change schedule on their website here:

https://www.zf.com/usa_canada/en_us...s_corporate/how_to_change_oil/change_oil.html

And here's a video from the ZF YouTube channel which confirms the same thing:



By the way, the oil pan and fluid are expensive parts, and the procedure to change the fluid isn't the simplest. The whole job is going to cost about ~$1000 USD to ~$1500 CAD from the dealership.

Also please notice in the video that they are doing just a drain and refill (along with oilpan/filter change), rather than a full flush.
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Redneck_Jedi

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Wow! I guess FCA figures we'll be out of warranty at that point, and it won't be their problem. :(
 

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Hey guys,

I've been doing some research on the ZF8's supposedly "lifetime" transmission fluid. I've even scoured some Audi and Bimmer forums for information, so you don't have to. :captain:

All of FCA's 2017 owners manuals for the various vehicles that use the ZF8 (i.e. Chrysler 200, RAM 1500 etc.) specify that the ZF8 fluid is lifetime and never needs to be changed. They don't even specify a severe duty fluid change interval for it.

However ZF explicitly recommends a 100,000 km or 8 year (whichever comes first) fluid change schedule on their website here:

https://www.zf.com/usa_canada/en_us...s_corporate/how_to_change_oil/change_oil.html

And here's a video from the ZF YouTube channel which confirms the same thing:



By the way, the oil pan and fluid are expensive parts, and the procedure to change the fluid isn't the simplest. The whole job is going to cost about ~$1000 USD to ~$1500 CAD from the dealership.

Also please notice in the video that they are doing just a drain and refill (along with oilpan/filter change), rather than a full flush.
That reminds me how there can be a significant divide between types of owners. In this case those who will buy new and unload after a few years, and other owners who tend to hang onto vehicles a long time or buy older used vehicles. In this case the trans maintenance or repair might be a non-issue for the former, but could be a big deal for the latter. I do wonder with all the complexity and cost of modern components, what pain and expense some owners down the road might be feeling. With modern cars, gone are the days of me pulling the C4 trans out of my old Mustang and having it rebuilt for $150!
 

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Correct me if I am wrong but is FCA not building their own version of ZF transmissions now? So they may spec them differently which may require different maintenance needs. I remember reading FCA has a larger pan on them and are still “serviced” with special tools to check and add fluid “as needed”.
 
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BillyHW

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Correct me if I am wrong but is FCA not building their own version of ZF transmissions now? So they may spec them differently which may require different maintenance needs. I remember reading FCA has a larger pan on them and are still “serviced” with special tools to check and add fluid “as needed”.
FCA uses both ZF built transmissions and in-house built transmissions with designs licensed from ZF. The in-house ones are only very slightly different. I've checked various owner's manuals and they say "lifetime" for both the Chrysler ones and the ZF ones.

Audi and BMW also specify "lifetime" for the ZF built transmissions.
 

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Nate

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FCA uses both ZF built transmissions and in-house built transmissions with designs licensed from ZF. The in-house ones are only very slightly different. I've checked various owner's manuals and they say "lifetime" for both the Chrysler ones and the ZF ones.

Audi and BMW also specify "lifetime" for the ZF built transmissions.
Yes, but they are still serviced with special tooling. I guess this is where it come to scrutiny of marketing verbiage. Hmmm....
 
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BillyHW

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Yes, but they are still serviced with special tooling. I guess this is where it come to scrutiny of marketing verbiage. Hmmm....
I've watched some videos of various people doing the fluid change on these transmissions on YouTube and none of them appear to be using any particularly special tools.
 

Nate

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I've watched some videos of various people doing the fluid change on these transmissions on YouTube and none of them appear to be using any particularly special tools.
They are FCA specific tools, I doubt you’d see anyone with them on YouTube videos. There is a special fluid checking and filling tool I know of for sure...
 
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BillyHW

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They are FCA specific tools, I doubt you’d see anyone with them on YouTube videos. There is a special fluid checking and filling tool I know of for sure...
If anyone can post any information about these special tools, especially any pics or videos, how they work, that would be awesome.

I did see one special "full flush" machine, supposedly made by ZF, that puts fluid in one hole and vacuums it out another hole, and supposedly changes all the fluid instead of leaving a couple of litres of the old fluid still inside like the drain and fill procedure does. I'll see if I can find it again.
 

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Went to rock auto and the pan/integrated filter is $100

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...6,3441645,transmission-automatic,oil+pan,8546

what I cant find is if they have the Mechatronic Sleeve that also needs to be replaced at 60-80k miles......

the trans fluid is $25 a quart for mopar fluid but it will not be long before aftermarket stuff will be avail. That being said if you are at the dealer buying dealer fluid and dealer parts then it will be spendy.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...ansmission-automatic,transmission+fluid,11387
 
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BillyHW

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Went to rock auto and the pan/integrated filter is $100

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...6,3441645,transmission-automatic,oil+pan,8546

what I cant find is if they have the Mechatronic Sleeve that also needs to be replaced at 60-80k miles......

the trans fluid is $25 a quart for mopar fluid but it will not be long before aftermarket stuff will be avail. That being said if you are at the dealer buying dealer fluid and dealer parts then it will be spendy.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...ansmission-automatic,transmission+fluid,11387
I wish I lived next door to Rock Auto.

What the heck is a Mechatronic Sleeve?
 

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I wish I lived next door to Rock Auto.

What the heck is a Mechatronic Sleeve?
Everyone lives next to rock auto lol.....its mail order....

the mech sleeve goes through the trans to connect all the wires from outside to inside. You change them when you change the pan/integrated filter. Otherwise soon after they inevitably start to leak. I dont know if this ZF has one and I looked but could not find any info about it. The 6spd ZF autos have it. The real killer is the Mopar trans fluid. Its expensive @$40+ a quart......there is after market fluid avail

the below valvaline looks like it would work, its what i used in my BMW ZF as I refused to pay $40 quart. No problems after the fluid change....

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...2d889bd3/3fa3136a-09bd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1

the below link discusses the same trans for a Ram truck.....

https://www.oildepot.ca/dodge-dealer-home-of-1000-atf-flush/
 
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BillyHW

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Everyone lives next to rock auto lol.....its mail order....
Everything costs more to ship to Canada and the exchange sucks too right now. :(

the mech sleeve goes through the trans to connect all the wires from outside to inside. You change them when you change the pan/integrated filter. Otherwise soon after they inevitably start to leak. I dont know if this ZF has one and I looked but could not find any info about it. The 6spd ZF autos have it. The real killer is the Mopar trans fluid. Its expensive @$40+ a quart......there is after market fluid avail
I've watched some videos on YouTube of people changing their ATF on the ZF 8-speeds, and none of them mentioned the mech sleeve. Hopefully it's not necessary to change one.
 

rx2man

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If there is one its not that much money. Its the 9 quarts of mopar fluid and the integrated pan/filter that gets you at the dealer. After market everything is half the price.....

BUT, THE ZF's ARE GOOD TRANNYS. Chrysler went with them because they cant build a auto thats worth a shit and were losing sales....not necessarily Jeeps but pick ups and SUV's. For some reason the computers get corrupted as well and cause shift issues which screws up the trans in addition to them being turds.
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