Wrangler v Bronco Arms Race

Armycop

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Ford's design language is just terrible. Everything looks awful.

I don't have much hope for the bronco. If they did a retro design that would be great but i am guessing it will be another boring ugly SUV design.
They did ok in 2004 when that Bronco concept came out and they also made the retro style 2005 Mustang. Lately everything looks like a Fusion especially the 2018 Mustang and all the SUVs.
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I was excited and waiting for the Bronco at some point, and thought the Ranger would be giving us a good idea of Ford styiling for these 2... Then Ford released the Ranger... then I triple checked to make sure it wasn’t a Toyota... then I puked in my mouth... then I was sure I would not regret going with the JL :)
I concur, the new Ranger is nothing like the old Ranger but a LOT like the old explorer sport track. An SUV with a tached on bucket they try to claim is a usable truck bed.
I wouldn't have anything to do with that thing till they cough up the rest of the bed that's missing.
I really love that GMC canyon with the long bed though, it actually looks tough like a truck should and you have room for a quad, couple dirt bikes or even a sleeping bag to sleep in.

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PavementWarrior

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I had the first year Ranger (83 if memory serves), absolute worst vehicle I have ever owned, and by a mile.

So bad it would be hard to ever want to buy another even though the new one would have zero in common but the name
 

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They did ok in 2004 when that Bronco concept came out and they also made the retro style 2005 Mustang. Lately everything looks like a Fusion especially the 2018 Mustang and all the SUVs.
Yes. Would make an exception for the Mustang.
 

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And people here will tend to agree, but the vast majority of buyers and reviewers slam it and they voted it out of the main stream.
Heck even a 4x4 with 2 doors is almost completely gone, the power of the mall has wiped everything but crossover suvs off the map.

Look how popular the 4 jlu is, there was a time when the thought of that to a jeep purist would have set off alarms.

I personally think there is room to a medium sized convertible SUV. make it strong, with a comfy street ride, give it a 33 inch tire with locker pro version (and a 31 inch tire 2wd with lsd prerunner version) and it would sell like hot cakes. no silly folding front window, put time into an amazing half door design and top.
This. I think someone could capture serious market share by offering a convertible SUV with serious 4x4 capability, but using IFS instead of a solid front axle. That would help differentiate it from the Wrangler.

Yes, IFS does not handle hardcore rock crawling as well as a solid axle (I undertook a solid axle swap on my 87 4Rrunner to get rid of IFS), but IFS does light offroading very well nonetheless. You'll get a TRD Offroad or Pro Tacoma a hell of a lot of places. It's just that a Rubicon is extremely serious and will go that next level of places. But many, many buyers are fine with a vehicle that can hop a 6" curb and nothing more.

I honestly wouldn't have minded if Jeep took the Sahara mentality further and gave it and it only IFS. Sahara buyers do not scream for Moab smashing capability, for the most part.

I do hope another manufacturer puts the heat on them. When there's serious competition, consumers win.
 

AZCrawl

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This. I think someone could capture serious market share by offering a convertible SUV with serious 4x4 capability, but using IFS instead of a solid front axle. That would help differentiate it from the Wrangler.

Yes, IFS does not handle hardcore rock crawling as well as a solid axle (I undertook a solid axle swap on my 87 4Rrunner to get rid of IFS), but IFS does light offroading very well nonetheless. You'll get a TRD Offroad or Pro Tacoma a hell of a lot of places. It's just that a Rubicon is extremely serious and will go that next level of places. But many, many buyers are fine with a vehicle that can hop a 6" curb and nothing more.

I honestly wouldn't have minded if Jeep took the Sahara mentality further and gave it and it only IFS. Sahara buyers do not scream for Moab smashing capability, for the most part.

I do hope another manufacturer puts the heat on them. When there's serious competition, consumers win.
Sounds like you are describing a Toyota FJ.
 

That One Guy

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Sounds like you are describing a Toyota FJ.
That vehicle failed, IMO, solely because it was not a convertible. They were so close...
 

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That vehicle failed, IMO, solely because it was not a convertible. They were so close...
I think it more likely failed because it was not a true 4-door.

unfortunately the market doesn't really want what we think it should want.
 

WXman

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I think it more likely failed because it was not a true 4-door.

unfortunately the market doesn't really want what we think it should want.
It failed for all those reasons. It wasn't a convertible, it had horrible suicide doors on the rear, the visibility was horrendous, and it had IFS. If they had fixed those things they would have had a smash hit on their hands.

Having said that, IFS rides much better on the highway which is where 99% of buyers spend their time, and IFS rarely ever has death wobble and the other terrible issues solid axles have.
 

That One Guy

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I think it more likely failed because it was not a true 4-door.

unfortunately the market doesn't really want what we think it should want.
They've got a 4 door, the 4Runner, and it's not selling well anymore. The market really likes SUV convertibles. And the Jeep image really helps sell them.
 

JLBuyer

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Having said that, IFS rides much better on the highway which is where 99% of buyers spend their time, and IFS rarely ever has death wobble and the other terrible issues solid axles have.
I couldn't agree more..
Any time somebody wants to see how truly crappy solid axles are for on road handling, take two big ass heavy stiff suspension trucks. The Ford or Ram 3500 solid axle and a GMC or Chevy 3500 ifs on test rides back to back.
Find a curvy road and Corner them hard, hall ass over rough road or train tracks, pop a simple curb, also notice the play in the steering wheel. You will see night and day how well IFS handles all of that compared to solid axle.

I'm not saying I want Jeep to go IFS, because the name of the game is articulation when rock crawling.
But damn that would be one hell of a nice ride for on road and high speed off road...
 

duckhunter71

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They've got a 4 door, the 4Runner, and it's not selling well anymore. The market really likes SUV convertibles. And the Jeep image really helps sell them.
4Runner sales have increased all but one year since 2009. 2017 had their best sales in 15 years at 128k units in the US. If Toyota ever updates the 4Runner, I guarantee that you’ll see that record get beat. 4Runner is selling fine, removable top or not.
 

That One Guy

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4Runner sales have increased all but one year since 2009. 2017 had their best sales in 15 years at 128k units in the US. If Toyota ever updates the 4Runner, I guarantee that you’ll see that record get beat. 4Runner is selling fine, removable top or not.
http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/toyota/toyota-4runner/

You're right. Sounds like they got out of their slump of a few years ago. Kinda funny they could do that without updating the vehicle significantly. While ancient, it's definitely got a brutally dependable drive train. I still wish they would've never dropped the M/T from the runner.
 

nvabill

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Hopefully independent front suspension hence no death wobble problems!
 
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