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Wrangler JL (boat) towing experience report

Swanny297

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I really wish we could discuss this subject without people making up wild claims or going into hysteria. I would really like to know why the Wrangler is rated so low. The wheelbase on a JL Unlimited is actually 4 inches longer than a Grand Cherokee which can tow 7400 lbs using the same v6 and 8 speed transmission as found in the Wrangler JL. The Grand Cherokee is also unibody. If I am reading the payload sheet right, the Wrangler JL has 100 lbs less payload capacity than the Grand Cherokee.
Letā€™s discuss, the GC has 10 trim levels not all of which are rated any more than the JL, those that are, are equipped with features of the tow package.

The trailer tow package for the GC includes a class 4 hitch, heavy duty engine cooling system, rear load leveling suspension and normal duty suspension, all of which are completely different systems than whatā€™s on a JL.

The GC has multinlink rear suspension systems. The GVWR of a 4x4 GC is 1000lbs or more than a JL.

You canā€™t compare tow ratings based on payload and power train similarities. You can get a Ram 1500 Exress QC 4x4 with tow package and with a 3.6L and 8spd transmission that has a max tow of just over 10k lbs.

I think the thread got messed up by all legal talk but if you tow a lot which it sounds like you do you should always know your actual weights and real life payload.

1. Measure the pin weight of your boat, if it is over 350lbs you are going to start lifting the front end which affects your ability to steer and stop. This coupled with any cargo and/or rear passengers only makes it worse.

2. You should know your actual payload capacity not just assume the specs are correct. Lots of people put heavier wheels and tires and other accessories and still think they have the same payload. Take your Jeep full of fuel and nothing else to a truck scale and get it weighed. Subtract your weight from this and than subtract that weight from the GVWR and you will have actual payload. Remember any weight over 350lbs on the pin eats into your available payload.

You canā€™t really tow ā€œsafelyā€ exceeding the max tow of a vehicle, you may feel confident the load travels well and there wonā€™t be any issues but I promise if during your 70mph trial on the highway you had to swerve hard or hit your brakes you would find out the hard way it wasnā€™t ā€œsafeā€.

To each his own, whether thereā€™s criminal liability or a vehicle infraction violation in the picture or not there are lots of factors besides what is behind your JL when you choose to pull heavy.
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RisingEagle

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I would really like to know why the Wrangler is rated so low.
It's primarily the suspension (and related components) and braking. Which does bring up the question - if you beef all that up - do you raise your tow rating?

I just had this discussion with a buddy of mine (who happens to also be a GM at a Toyota dealership) and we had a pretty at-length discussion on it. I was horrified to learn that a Toyota 4-Runner could only tow 1700lbs which is what prompted the discussion; I never in a million years would have guessed that low. It's because of the suspension in them. He also went on to point out that the Toyota Tacomas, and many other vehicles, can vary widely depending on a couple small configuration changes. But a 4Runner can tow less than a 2dr Jeep - well, that just seems silly.

I won't tow more than probably 2500lb with my Jeep - but that's because I have a truck to move things, not out of a fear the Jeep will fall apart at 3501lb of towing. And ya - even towing under max capacity for long periods will prematurely wear parts out. If you tow 3000lbs for 120k miles with your Jeep - things will be affected. a lot.

In the end - a 4-door Jeep (in the U.S.) is designed to tow 3500lbs safely. above that, you're making a judgement call.

My main point was - it is the same judgement call people make when they drink a couple of beers and get behind the wheel, or the same judgement call someone makes when they try to drive and they are too tired (case in point - there is a thread in general of a totalled jeep a guy flipped because he drove tired). At some point that judgement call becomes ridiculous - such as towing 30% more than you should, or doing so at high speeds or up and down mountains. No different than slamming back 5-6 beers and heading out the door.

Unfortunately, I rarely see much of anyone champion the hundreds of other types of risky driving behavior; I didn't notice a single reprimand in the thread of the guy who fell asleep at the wheel (it's all - oh we're glad you're ok, glad no one was hurt - and I AM glad no one was hurt. but I'd also like people to not drive tired). But mention you tow 15% over "max published tow rating" for 15 miles, and some want to ban you from the forums for life. If you're going to champion safe driving then please at least do so consistently. Ask yourself this - if you're in a bar (I don't drink so I don't visit them), do you run out after someone heading to the parking lot with keys in hand that you just watched drink two beers in the last 30 minutes on the way home? Or if you stop for dinner with a friend, and he has a couple glasses of wine with supper - do you reprimand him for impairing his judgement before driving? I'm going to guess that most on here would answer that with a "no" if being honest. And I'd say - unequivocally - more accidents are caused by impaired / drunk driving than overweight towing.

Still - as far as weight police go, this forum isn't so bad. If you want to see some good fun - go watch a RV/5th wheel forum for a few days. Entire sagas on how much over someone pulls and it brings out the critics in droves. I think truck campers are the best threads of them all. They can go hundreds of pages - it's a good read for some humor. I honestly suspect some of them are started by guys who just make stuff up to have fun.

now back to your regular channel....
 

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It's primarily the suspension (and related components) and braking. Which does bring up the question - if you beef all that up - do you raise your tow rating?

I just had this discussion with a buddy of mine (who happens to also be a GM at a Toyota dealership) and we had a pretty at-length discussion on it. I was horrified to learn that a Toyota 4-Runner could only tow 1700lbs which is what prompted the discussion; I never in a million years would have guessed that low. It's because of the suspension in them. He also went on to point out that the Toyota Tacomas, and many other vehicles, can vary widely depending on a couple small configuration changes. But a 4Runner can tow less than a 2dr Jeep - well, that just seems silly.

I won't tow more than probably 2500lb with my Jeep - but that's because I have a truck to move things, not out of a fear the Jeep will fall apart at 3501lb of towing. And ya - even towing under max capacity for long periods will prematurely wear parts out. If you tow 3000lbs for 120k miles with your Jeep - things will be affected. a lot.

In the end - a 4-door Jeep (in the U.S.) is designed to tow 3500lbs safely. above that, you're making a judgement call.

My main point was - it is the same judgement call people make when they drink a couple of beers and get behind the wheel, or the same judgement call someone makes when they try to drive and they are too tired (case in point - there is a thread in general of a totalled jeep a guy flipped because he drove tired). At some point that judgement call becomes ridiculous - such as towing 30% more than you should, or doing so at high speeds or up and down mountains. No different than slamming back 5-6 beers and heading out the door.

Unfortunately, I rarely see much of anyone champion the hundreds of other types of risky driving behavior; I didn't notice a single reprimand in the thread of the guy who fell asleep at the wheel (it's all - oh we're glad you're ok, glad no one was hurt - and I AM glad no one was hurt. but I'd also like people to not drive tired). But mention you tow 15% over "max published tow rating" for 15 miles, and some want to ban you from the forums for life. If you're going to champion safe driving then please at least do so consistently. Ask yourself this - if you're in a bar (I don't drink so I don't visit them), do you run out after someone heading to the parking lot with keys in hand that you just watched drink two beers in the last 30 minutes on the way home? Or if you stop for dinner with a friend, and he has a couple glasses of wine with supper - do you reprimand him for impairing his judgement before driving? I'm going to guess that most on here would answer that with a "no" if being honest. And I'd say - unequivocally - more accidents are caused by impaired / drunk driving than overweight towing.

Still - as far as weight police go, this forum isn't so bad. If you want to see some good fun - go watch a RV/5th wheel forum for a few days. Entire sagas on how much over someone pulls and it brings out the critics in droves. I think truck campers are the best threads of them all. They can go hundreds of pages - it's a good read for some humor. I honestly suspect some of them are started by guys who just make stuff up to have fun.

now back to your regular channel....
:clap:
 

pmcgeejr

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I agree with the idea that Macintux is going for and well put !!


BUT.....The idea of someone not caring of a set maximum tow rating and "possibly" being an endangerment towrds others, I agree. Now lets put this in a real life situation which you are going for.

I live in Tampa, Florida and I see 2 door Jeep JK towing yes 2 doors towing boats that size or smaller. Lets say he tows his 4k pound boat the cautiousness of how he is towing should be more argued. If I towed idk a 2k pound boat (under the maximum towing regulation) and drive the normal speed limit or lets say 5 miles per hour over the speed limit vs him driving a 4k pound boat 10 miles per hour under the speed limit. Technically I would be more of a reckless driver than him.


All I'm saying is the OP did a great job of testing and seeing the safety aspect of how it acts now with that everyone still has to be safe and know (just like a truck driver, uhaul driver, any car with a trailer) knows to slow down below the speed limit posted for safety reasons due to having extra weight on the back. Yes it does affect the stopping distance of the vehicle but again if you are driving slower you should be well off fine with that.
 

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With a proper weight distributing hitch and sway control, I wouldn't hesitate to tow 5000lbs with a JL Unlimited. Hell, if my cushy Grand Wagoneer can tow 5k lbs with 100 less hp, half the gears, shorter wheelbase and at least as soft a suspension, there's no way one of these would be worse.

Limiting factor on the JK, according to Jeep rep, was cooling. So if you're going to tow in death valley, you might be stopping often to let it cool down...
 

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Is ESS disabled if you are towing and plugged into the factory Tow Package? If so, has anyone used a hitch tail light to see if the tail light disables ESS? My hitch tail light plugs in using the 7 conductor plug.
 

Torenhall

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Well unlike some in this thread - I appreciate your report. It lets me know that - from someone's personal experience, if I choose to believe it (no reason not to - it's just a qualifier) - the vehicle I'm buying can handle max-weight very well, instead of straining and struggling at the limit. Will I run over max weight? Most likely not - I own a Ram 3500 for moving things, and I don't really have anything big the Jeep would need to move. Not like I'm going to use it to pull my 5th wheel (although...). But if I did have something in the weight range of 4000, and needed to move it up to the lake 10 miles away - sure, I'd probably do it. Not getting on the interstate, mainly back roads, no speed over 55mph - I'd feel pretty safe. Of course *I* would make that decision, based on how it handled when it felt when I started up the road.

I really don't see that it's a National Security issue for somebody to tow a few hundred pounds over their vehicle "maximum published weight capacity". If you want to charge at windmills or unsafe acts, charge at the people driving with cell phones in their hands, or going "79mph" in a 70mph zone, or driving after "only had a couple beers on the way home". Any of those cause far more dangerous situations every single day than someone towing 10% over their max weight. And fwiw - I haven't seen any threads here firing off at people going above posted speed limits lately.

I do admit, reading the "this thread should be removed" made me chuckle. It's in line with, for instance, YouTube removing videos that advocate the selling or operation of firearms. Far from a chuckling matter I suppose, and I know there are more than just Americans that use this forum - but here in the United States one of our most empowering rights we have (even above the "right to health care") is our freedom of speech. Literally tens of thousands (and more) have died protecting just that freedom. I'd say it's something we take pretty seriously; limiting that should be strongly considered before implementing.

And also to your point - if you think "how to make a bomb" isn't on the internet, you haven't googled that phrase lately.

Point is - I didn't see the original poster come out and say "hey guys, pay no attention to the published tow rating, I performed extensive testing and towed way over that in all types of conditions and nothing went wrong so their engineers don't know what they're talking about". I saw someone who ran 15 miles up the road pulling a slightly heavier load with a newly-released vehicle informing others who are buying the same vehicle of his (admitted limited) experience.

If someone makes the leap from THAT to "it's ok for me to pull 5K on the interstate across country with my Jeep" then there are more problems in that person's life and decision making process, and this post definitely wasn't the trigger for that ridiculous decision; and when I come across that person, I hope I'm in my Ram 3500 so I can help push him off the road when he wrecks.
What he said.

Y'all got the anal rectitude factor dialed up waaaaaay too high in this thread. This is not the Jeep way my friends. Some of you should probably be driving Subarus and subscribing to consumer reports so you can buy your next vehicle on based on safety ratings. Dude towed a boat. Calm down lol
 

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Don't listen to all these timid towers on here OP... Some folks are just always looking for a rule to follow or a limit to stay under. That's not the adventuring Jeep spirit if you ask me.

You have to judge for yourself what is safe. Sounds like you have, and you've shared your experience. Thank you for the review!
There can be some stark differences around here in terms of risk aversion. Some people by their nature, focus a lot on the risks (real or imagined) involved with towing or other activities. One might think these sort of people are not the typical Wrangler buyer, but they are actually a big market for Jeep. (Jeep is in the business of selling the idea of adventure to people who are afraid to have an adventure.)

On the other hand, some people neglect to adequately assess risk. And worse, sometimes in the process they will make others assume their risks. That is not cool. As a non-risk averse person, I always try to keep that in mind.

Well, the former risk averse person will generally lead a very boring life, while the other non-risk averse person perhaps will have an exciting but shorter life! :)

In terms of towing, I think it is reasonable to assume Jeep did not design the Wrangler such that the 3500lbs tow rating is the max - and anything over is simply dangerous. Things are typically not designed that way. The rating was arrived at from a number of factors legal and otherwise. Likely having to do with the particular market area assumptions such as possible vehicle speeds, as was pointed out in the posts comparing tow ratings in different locales. Exceeding the tow rating, if done at a reasonable speed for the conditions and setup correctly, in spite of the "rule is a rule" risk averse assessments, most likely will not cause a real problem for the driver or anyone else on the road.
 

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There can be some stark differences around here in terms of risk aversion. Some people by their nature, focus a lot on the risks (real or imagined) involved with towing or other activities. One might think these sort of people are not the typical Wrangler buyer, but they are actually a big market for Jeep. (Jeep is in the business of selling the idea of adventure to people who are afraid to have an adventure.)

On the other hand, some people neglect to adequately assess risk. And worse, sometimes in the process they will make others assume their risks. That is not cool. As a non-risk averse person, I always try to keep that in mind.

Well, the former risk averse person will generally lead a very boring life, while the other non-risk averse person perhaps will have an exciting but shorter life! :)

In terms of towing, I think it is reasonable to assume Jeep did not design the Wrangler such that the 3500lbs tow rating is the max - and anything over is simply dangerous. Things are typically not designed that way. The rating was arrived at from a number of factors legal and otherwise. Likely having to do with the particular market area assumptions such as possible vehicle speeds, as was pointed out in the posts comparing tow ratings in different locales. Exceeding the tow rating, if done at a reasonable speed for the conditions and setup correctly, in spite of the "rule is a rule" risk averse assessments, most likely will not cause a real problem for the driver or anyone else on the road.
I agree with you! Especially since your post was just a more verbose way to say the same thing ;)
 

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Snerf

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A risk averse person will generally lead a very boring life, while the other non-risk averse person perhaps will have an exciting but shorter life!
The 'tard is strong in this one. Actually, in real life, the opposite is exactly true. People who engage in adventure activities take great pains to avoid risk. In fact, a WAG would place risk mitigation at perhaps 90% of the total effort involved.

OTH, dumb asses - who in actuality are really couch potatoes - may take their limited opportunities towards engaging in what they perceive to be adventure by artificially dialing up risk to 11.

Are people on this board suggesting that 4x4 and/or towing are "adventures"? What possible risk is involved, other than to property (in the case of 4x4), or foolish, avoidable accidents?

How does any of this compare to real adventure, which may include hunting, shooting, off shore fishing, scuba, rock climbing, skiing, surfing, white water rafting, sky diving, etc, etc, etc? Trust me, as a seasoned practitioner of most of these activities, the primary focus is on risk mitigation, not risk enhancement.

The reason is simple: the risk is already high. If not reduced/controlled, it's easy to get killed or injured - to both yourself and/or others. The "watch this, hold muh beer" sentiment is laughable. That ain't adventure, that's being stupid.
 

Torenhall

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The 'tard is strong in this one. Actually, in real life, the opposite is exactly true. People who engage in adventure activities take great pains to avoid risk. In fact, a WAG would place risk mitigation at perhaps 90% of the total effort involved.

OTH, dumb asses - who in actuality are really couch potatoes - may take their limited opportunities towards engaging in what they perceive to be adventure by artificially dialing up risk to 11.

Are people on this board suggesting that 4x4 and/or towing are "adventures"? What possible risk is involved, other than to property (in the case of 4x4), or foolish, avoidable accidents?

How does any of this compare to real adventure, which may include hunting, shooting, off shore fishing, scuba, rock climbing, skiing, surfing, white water rafting, sky diving, etc, etc, etc? Trust me, as a seasoned practitioner of most of these activities, the primary focus is on risk mitigation, not risk enhancement.

The reason is simple: the risk is already high; if not reduced/controlled, it's easy to get killed or injured - to both yourself and/or others. The "watch this, hold muh beer" sentiment is laughable. That ain't adventure, that's being stupid.
Yup. You sound boring.
 

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Here's a good example of risk mitigation techniques for those who actually engage in adventure. (On average, 4 people die each year attempting Whitney. Fall in this chute, without the ability to arrest, and you get launched a few thousand feet into open air before before being splattered on hard granite below.)

whitneymountaineer28.jpg
 

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The 'tard is strong in this one. Actually, in real life, the opposite is exactly true. People who engage in adventure activities take great pains to avoid risk. In fact, a WAG would place risk mitigation at perhaps 90% of the total effort involved.

OTH, dumb asses - who in actuality are really couch potatoes - may take their limited opportunities towards engaging in what they perceive to be adventure by artificially dialing up risk to 11.

Are people on this board suggesting that 4x4 and/or towing are "adventures"? What possible risk is involved, other than to property (in the case of 4x4), or foolish, avoidable accidents?

How does any of this compare to real adventure, which may include hunting, shooting, off shore fishing, scuba, rock climbing, skiing, surfing, white water rafting, sky diving, etc, etc, etc? Trust me, as a seasoned practitioner of most of these activities, the primary focus is on risk mitigation, not risk enhancement.

The reason is simple: the risk is already high. If not reduced/controlled, it's easy to get killed or injured - to both yourself and/or others. The "watch this, hold muh beer" sentiment is laughable. That ain't adventure, that's being stupid.
Real adventure requires real risk. Otherwise there is always Disney World. So no, while people who engage in adventure activities might within the engagement of those activities desire to mitigate what risks they can, the very activity is risky. Else it is not adventure. Sorry, off-roading involves a certain level of enhanced risk, compared to not off-roading. (There is little/no risk of rolling over or falling off a cliff when you are not near a cliff). A driver might desire to mitigate some of that risk with roll cage or other features and skilled driving, but it is what it is.
 

RisingEagle

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On the other hand, some people neglect to adequately assess risk. And worse, sometimes in the process they will make others assume their risks. That is not cool. As a non-risk averse person, I always try to keep that in mind.
I agree with you on this - risk assessment, in anything from swimming to speeding on the highway to driving impaired - should be evaluated not just on YOUR assumed risk but also including the potential collateral damage to others. The Army beat that into us, believe me; you can't just start spraying rounds into a crowded street full of pedestrians to kill one bad guy. It translates just as well to civilians driving Jeeps or anything else - you shouldn't drive 80 down the interstate pulling 4000lbs with a JLUR, you shouldn't drink and drive, you shouldn't drive at 2am without adequate rest; not because of what may happen to you (not much of anyone cares about that other than your direct relatives) but because of the potential collateral damage to my 25yr old daughter on her way home from working on treating CF, or to my wife on the way home from the grocery store, or whatever. And if it's not MY daughter you're plowing into - I bet it's someone's. Risk is rarely ever just about you; even if there's no possible chance the behavior will directly affect anyone BUT you - I bet there's at least one person that cares about you and will be affected by your loss

Well, the former risk averse person will generally lead a very boring life, while the other non-risk averse person perhaps will have an exciting but shorter life!
this I don't agree with. I would consider myself generally risk-adverse; maybe my definition is different. I don't get a thrill from blowing things up, or driving really fast, or jumping from planes, or firing full-automatic weapons; but comparatively, I'd like to think I've had a pretty exciting life. Sure I've done stupid things (usually the result of thinking I was indestructible at the time) but I think it's hard to fully support the general idea that in order to have an exciting life you have to take a lot of risk. Proper balancing of risks and mitigation, and engaging in activities that still bring plenty of excitement is entirely possible.

an example; two jetski'ers are out on a nice day on the lake. Neither can swim. or heck both can swim, sure. one wears a life vest, the other doesn't (he's a risk-taking kind of guy). A jerk with a huge boat goes flying by, creating a large, unexpected wake throwing both off their jetskis and they both happen to clunk their head as they tumble into the water.

now - up to that point, do you think that the risk-adverse (the one who assessed a potential risk and mitigated it by wearing a life vest) person had any less fun or excitement than the 'risk-taking' kind of guy? Did potentially drowning make it somehow more exciting, while the other guy wearing the vest lead a boring life? I donno. for me - I'd wear the vest. call me prudent, risk-adverse, whatever.

there's enough unforeseen danger around from self-centered people who don't assess their risky behavior outside of their own personal space (you don't sound like one of those people - but they ARE out there) that I'll mitigate what I can and where I can. If that makes me boring, then I reckon that's what I am ;)
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