JayJay

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Is Lions Back open to the public?
No, it's not open to the public. As I understand it, the property changed hands and the new folks wanted but couldn't get liability insurance unless they restricted access.

Later,
Johnny
 

Geronimo

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No, it's not open to the public. As I understand it, the property changed hands and the new folks wanted but couldn't get liability insurance unless they restricted access.

Later,
Johnny
That's too bad I knew it was closed several years back but I guess I was hoping somebody came to an agreement. Seems like a legal disclaimer and an entry fee would make sense at least on a limited basis one day a week or something. Oh well.
 

JimLee

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That was a question not an argument.. I also didn't say anything anywhere about closing land for an oil company. I'm anything but an alarmist. Have a drink or something.
Sorry man, context is hard to determine on a forum and your question was kinda out of left field considering the discussion. I was having a drink.
 

JimLee

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That's too bad I knew it was closed several years back but I guess I was hoping somebody came to an agreement. Seems like a legal disclaimer and an entry fee would make sense at least on a limited basis one day a week or something. Oh well.
Unfortunately our legal system is so broke it is now impossible to make a bulletproof contract with anybody, i can't say I blame them. Offroader signs waiver letter and then drives his vehicle off the side of Lions Back and dies along with his wife and dog, child of said offroader sheds some tears in front of a jury and claims "my dad was on his 17th beer when he signed that waiver (or, ignored that sign or disclaimer), the defendant shouldn't have let him drive it". Bleeding heart jury then awards crying child of dead offroader 250 million dollars because the law in this country in now all about emotions and contracts in most forms are almost meaningless.
 

nerubi

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Kind of funny reading through this, owners of one of the most oil consuming vehicles made complaining about companies getting more oil for them. Kind of like the Kennedy's complaining about being able to see wind turbines several miles out to sea from their Martha's Vineyard home and trying to block the construction.

Also, it's a moot point because AOC and her Green New Deal is going to ban all vehicles in ten years, except trains.
 

Geronimo

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Sorry man, context is hard to determine on a forum and your question was kinda out of left field considering the discussion. I was having a drink.
Nothing Brother Its all good, I catch myself many many times in the same state. Especially if I have had a few and have been watching my overload of news feeds.... Wished i were in MOAB right now......
 

D60

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You need to understand that they are bidding to access the land specifically for minerals or petroleum. They won't own the land nor can they deny access to it. The trails will all still be accessible. The article (like most news these days) is a little on the fake side.
This feels much more like reality. I live in the middle of the gas patch and have wells all around me on private property.

In many parts of the country this might seem foreign but NO ONE here owns mineral rights anymore.... which means the oil (gas) companies CAN roll right onto your land and establish a pad and set up a "drinking bird."

Now, there are some county & state restrictions on density (one well every 40 or 80 acres) but the concept of mineral vs surface rights are something a lot of people have never heard of.

I moved out here knowing full well and none of it bothers me - if anything the "ugly" wells keep the snobs away.

I think it's ironic a bunch of 'wheelers who are constantly fighting for access to public lands would want to exclude another group, even if it is the "big bad" oil companies. Feels a little NIMBY-ish to me...

From my perspective this would only help preserve access for 'wheeling, and it'll distract the Sierra Club types and cause them to spread their resources thinner.

I'm sure some trails would be modified and obstacles removed if they cut roads for access, but new obstacles will pop up and re-routes established (both for recreational value and SAFETY of trail users)

Seriously guys, let 'em at it and the pro-wilderness groups will foam at the mouth while also temporarily forgetting about us.

I type this as I sit on my deck in the Fruitland Coal Formation (just a couple hours from Moab) with a view of a gas well. Literally.
 

D60

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Also most of the trails you now run in Moab are remnants of Uranium (or even Potash) mining operations, now long gone. The roads deteriorate and voila - instant awesome 'wheeling.

If you've ever run almost anything in the Colo mountains -- again, old mining roads left to nature.

I don't see this as much different (shrug)
 

SubCultureNM

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So, I signed up on this forum strictly because of this thread; for some reason it came up in my Google News feed. This is my first post, yes.

I work for a small, PE-backed oil company here in Houston. We do not operate around Moab. However, I've been an O&G geologist for 15 years and have been 'wheeling Moab even longer. As has been said, the majority of the trails around the Moab area were opened by uranium prospectors, so leasing mineral rights directly lead to the creation of trails we all know and love. There's been O&G companies doing exploratory drilling around Moab for decades; hell, I remember running the PSM-GS-GBR series in late '14 and seeing a rig running on the horizon. That was during the period when domestic oil was selling for ~$100/bbl. Bill Barrett Corp was one of the main operators exploring the area; their prospects never panned out. So, if they couldn't drill economic wells at $100 oil, they sure as hell can't now at $40 oil and $1.60 natural gas. Point being, just because the land is for lease, doesn't mean it will be leased. I doubt there will ever be large-scale development in the region.

Federal leases generally carry "rental" terms, if you will, and last ten years. I'm not sure if they carry work or production requirements to hold the lease like many private leases do, but there are numerous requirements. Where my company operates we try to avoid Federal leases as much as possible so we don't have to spend even more money on archaeological investigations, land use studies, and so on. All those things decrease your realized profit per barrel and make Federal leases much less attractive; in the public sphere, they also work to protect YOUR land. Also, because it's Federal land, the operator cannot strictly control access, except to the immediate well site (meaning, unless a well was drilled right in the middle of a trail, access to that trail wouldn't be affected).

So, what I'm getting at, is that fear-mongering journalism with an agenda shouldn't make you fear losing access to public land. What should? Irresponsible use; destruction of public property; the numerous forces opposed to motorized access to public land (when was the last time you shopped at REI? They donate money to a number of anti-access organizations!) Believe me, even though there are anti-Jeep people in Moab, even they, begrudgingly, acknowledge the economic benefit of our hobby and this industry. It's probably even more apparent since Grand County effectively eliminated tourism for a couple of months, due to the virus. You really don't need to worry about "Big Oil" taking away your access.
 

VNT

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And how much of Moab are those mean oil companies going to drill?? Get real, you want gas for your Jeep be damned happy these companies provide it.
 
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