Will the Bronco cause a price drop for the Wrangler?

Happycoop

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What happens if Broncos sell 50k units a year at some point in the near future?
There are already over 150k reservations for the Bronco. Naturally some of those will be cancelled, but certainly there are more to come prior to the actual release. IIRC, Ford is planning to produce 200k Broncos per year, so your 50k number seems quite low.

I think Jeep will be forced to decision-plan knowing there is now an alternate option for folks wanting top and doors off in an off-road capable vehicle. I doubt that means they will lower the price, but as others have speculated, I could see the expansion of options to some lower trim levels or other adjustments in order to entice folks.





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Actually, you can.
Negative. It is unavailable for purchase and unavailable for sale off the lot right now. It cannot be had today. Therefore price is irrelevant, color is irrelevant and options are irrelevant.

Let’s revisit this conversation when FORD dealers have units on hand to sell.
 

Happycoop

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Negative. It is unavailable for purchase and unavailable for sale off the lot right now. It cannot be had today. Therefore price is irrelevant, color is irrelevant and options are irrelevant.

Let’s revisit this conversation when FORD dealers have units on hand to sell.
That is correct; though to be fair I never said it was on the dealer lot right now. The OP was asking if Rubicon prices might drop (presumably in the future, not necessarily today or right now), so the published pricing of the Bronco seems quite relevant.
 

DanW

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To me, this its apparent that every single Bronco sold is one less vehicle sold by Jeep/Toyota (and maybe a couple of other brands). When Jeep starts to see market share decline, they will need to respond. That may come in the form of adding new features to existing models (and not jacking the price through the roof) or providing sales incentives of some kind — or both.

What happens if Broncos sell 50k units a year at some point in the near future? Most of those sales will have come from Jeep (but not all). If Jeep’s production falls by say.... 10% ..... as a result, I can guarantee that they will scramble to try to entice buyers..... and that’s very good for consumers.
Every Bronco sold is nowhere near one less Jeep. It doesn't work that way. If that were even remotely true, every deposit on a Bronco would have been from a Jeep owner. They weren't. I'd bet the vast majority either don't own a Jeep or never have owned one.
 

Dkretden

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Every Bronco sold is nowhere near one less Jeep. It doesn't work that way. If that were even remotely true, every deposit on a Bronco would have been from a Jeep owner. They weren't. I'd bet the vast majority either don't own a Jeep or never have owned one.
Correct.

the person buying a Bronco may or may not own a Jeep or Toyota TRD. There is a good chance that they own a Honda Civic Or perhaps an Acura TL like me..... had the Bronco been around, I would have looked at it..... and..... I might have bought it.

without the Bronco: jeep made a sale to me (after I looked at the Toyota TRD and hated the interior)
with the Bronco, Jeep might not have made the sale.... They therefore sold one less jeep to a buyer in the off-road segment.

look at it in the reverse: if the Toyota TRD sold Zero units because folks looking to buy an “off-road segment vehicle’ all decided to buy Jeeps, Jeep sales would go..... up.


a Buyer in this segment now has a very narrow range of choices..... call it a TRD or a Jeep. With a third option, the saLe of the new option will be a sale taken away from the current 2 options. That is how it works and that is why competition is good.
 
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You guys are all missing one (maybe 2) important factors:
In 2 words: Value perception. This is 100% a marketing thing. The walls around the King's castle in any segment are thick for a reason. Dropping price seems like a consumer friendly move, but many would see it as Jeep yielding, interpret it as a move to bump slumping sales, and then you have a self fulfilling prophecy.

1). Wrangler =/= Rubicon. Rubicon is the "halo vehicle" in all of the JL/JT equipment packages, and has been since 2003. Not trying to get into a Rubi vs. Non pissing match here, and you can argue "well I can build better _____" all day; According to the Jeep/ FCA- Rubicon is top of the pile. As such, you may see some discounts/ incentives on other models: Sport, Sahara, etc., as well as any leftovers- But Rubicon will likely remain within it's current price point. They don't sit on lots, and some dealers don't get them unless they're special ordered.

2). in the JK mid model refresh, they added trim levels to each trim level. This is how you got the "Rubicon X, S, and Hard Rock" or whatever. They're already doing this with Sport/ Sport S, if I'm not mistaken. What we might see, is Rubicon X now starting $5k (just making up a number) below where it is now, for a base Rubicon, THEN the price jumps higher as you add options/ packages until you get to the hard rock. Since they've done this before, I could see this being way more likely and charging even more at the top end.

Plus, if you've been following the entire saga, Jeep won't just sit back and let Bronco talk massive amounts of shit claiming "Best in class". Why do you think they dropped the 392 "Concept" when they did? To rain on Bronco's parade, and let Ford know they are still the King of the segment.

I think Bronco will do well in sales and on the trail. I think it's a slick design, and has a ton of innovations. But I also think it's going to Cannibalize sales from F150/ Raptor/ Explorer, and other buyers who would likely buy something else but would consider a "Cool looking SUV that drives a little better than a Jeep" (translation: Suburbanites who want to look outdoorsy and adventurous. Think XTerra buyers). There will be the legit Bronco holdouts and people who buy them to wheel as well. But just like Jeep owners, they'll be the minority/ lunatic fringe. AT this point, I'm stoked about anything that gets people into off roading.

That would be a HUGE benefit for the community/market, but admittedly would suck for Rubicon owners' resale. Definitely a benefit of competition though....

Hopefully it comes to fruition.
Disagree. IF you add a swaybar disconnect and lockers as options to non Rubi models, Rubi would still have 4:1 in the t-case, and probably lower axle gearing (unless Tow package comes with 4.10). Plus, Rubi would still likely have the F/R "Dana 44's" (M210/220, I forget the actual designations right now).

Oh yeah, and Rubicon still comes with those big scary stickers that intimidate everyone else, apparently, which... sorry for any potential hurt feelings about that ***

(***Disclaimer: This is an ongoing joke from a few of my previous posts. )
 

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You guys are all missing one (maybe 2) important factors:
In 2 words: Value perception. This is 100% a marketing thing. The walls around the King's castle in any segment are thick for a reason. Dropping price seems like a consumer friendly move, but many would see it as Jeep yielding, interpret it as a move to bump slumping sales, and then you have a self fulfilling prophecy.

1). Wrangler =/= Rubicon. Rubicon is the "halo vehicle" in all of the JL/JT equipment packages, and has been since 2003. Not trying to get into a Rubi vs. Non pissing match here, and you can argue "well I can build better _____" all day; According to the Jeep/ FCA- Rubicon is top of the pile. As such, you may see some discounts/ incentives on other models: Sport, Sahara, etc., as well as any leftovers- But Rubicon will likely remain within it's current price point. They don't sit on lots, and some dealers don't get them unless they're special ordered.

2). in the JK mid model refresh, they added trim levels to each trim level. This is how you got the "Rubicon X, S, and Hard Rock" or whatever. They're already doing this with Sport/ Sport S, if I'm not mistaken. What we might see, is Rubicon X now starting $5k (just making up a number) below where it is now, for a base Rubicon, THEN the price jumps higher as you add options/ packages until you get to the hard rock. Since they've done this before, I could see this being way more likely and charging even more at the top end.

Plus, if you've been following the entire saga, Jeep won't just sit back and let Bronco talk massive amounts of shit claiming "Best in class". Why do you think they dropped the 392 "Concept" when they did? To rain on Bronco's parade, and let Ford know they are still the King of the segment.


Disagree. IF you add a swaybar disconnect and lockers as options to non Rubi models, Rubi would still have 4:1 in the t-case, and probably lower axle gearing (unless Tow package comes with 4.10). Plus, Rubi would still likely have the F/R "Dana 44's" (M210/220, I forget the actual designations right now).

Oh yeah, and Rubicon still comes with those big scary stickers that intimidate everyone else, apparently, which... sorry for any potential hurt feelings about that ***

(***Disclaimer: This is an ongoing joke from a few of my previous posts. )
Maybe I misunderstood. If one can order all Rubicon options ala carte....then you can build a base Sport with 4:1, lockers f/r and the same axles as the Rubicon.

If those options aren't available, it's not really an apples to apples comparison (since Bronco has the super low first gear option for the manual) with the Ford.
 

zrickety

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It squeaks in right under $35k.
My latest issue of Car and Driver says 29995 (30k) for a base Bronco. Sasquatch requires automatic trans. If your other numbers are right, you're closer to $37k. To put this in perspective, I got my manual trans, V6 Rubicon for $38k, and the Bronco falls short in both areas.
For me anyway.
 

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Maybe I misunderstood. If one can order all Rubicon options ala carte....then you can build a base Sport with 4:1, lockers f/r and the same axles as the Rubicon.

If those options aren't available, it's not really an apples to apples comparison (since Bronco has the super low first gear option for the manual) with the Ford.
But you can't order Rubicon options a la carte. There are trims where you can get a rear locker. That's it though.

If we are trying to compare Bronco trims, they have like 4 that are intended for different segments:
Sport/base
Outerbanks= Sahara
Wildtrack= Go fast Desert (Mojave, I guess?)
Badlands= Rubicon
Within those trim models, they'll have the engine/ trans combos. And only some of those combos will be available in the trims (You won't be able to get the super low gearing of the badlands on the wildtrack, if I understood the promos and info I've seen).

the Sasquatch package gets you 35's and fancy beadlock wheels, steel bumpers, and a few other options I think. I'll have to see if i can find a source because I'm going off memory. Motortrend did an on paper comparison.
EDIT: It gets 2" suspension lift, wider flares, and lockers as well

My latest issue of Car and Driver says 29995 (30k) for a base Bronco. Sasquatch requires automatic trans. If your other numbers are right, you're closer to $37k. To put this in perspective, I got my manual trans, V6 Rubicon for $38k, and the Bronco falls short in both areas.
For me anyway.
Exactly this. Bingo
 
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zrickety

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Oh yeah, and Rubicon still comes with those big scary stickers that intimidate everyone else, apparently, which... sorry for any potential hurt feelings about that ***
Big, scary stickers FTW. Added to my sig, LOL
 

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But you can't order Rubicon options a la carte. There are trims where you can get a rear locker. That's it though.

If we are trying to compare Bronco trims, they have like 4 that are intended for different segments:
Sport/base
Outerbanks= Sahara
Wildtrack= Go fast Desert (Mojave, I guess?)
Badlands= Rubicon
Within those trim models, they'll have the engine/ trans combos. And only some of those combos will be available in the trims (You won't be able to get the super low gearing of the badlands on the wildtrack, if I understood the promos and info I've seen).

the Sasquatch package gets you 35's and fancy beadlock wheels, steel bumpers, and a few other options I think. I'll have to see if i can find a source because I'm going off memory. Motortrend did an on paper comparison.


Exactly this. Bingo
We're clearly not on the same page.

I took it a step farther than Aldo did. He said that lockers and sway bar disco could be options. If that's the case (since Jeep would then have to design lockers for the smaller axles anyway)...then they might as well make the other Rubicon options available as well....like 4:1 and the same D44s and gearing. That would cannibalize their flagship though, so I doubt that will happen....

If it did, it would hurt Rubicon resale for obvious reasons.

My point was that if Jeep didn't offer 4:1 and the upgraded D44s, then it's not really an apples to apples comparison to Ford since they are allegedly going to make the offroad packages available to all trim levels. What that means right now....no one knows. We're talking about a vehicle that isn't even available for sale.
 

RubiSc0tt

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We're clearly not on the same page.

I took it a step farther than Aldo did. He said that lockers and sway bar disco could be options. If that's the case (since Jeep would then have to design lockers for the smaller axles anyway)...then they might as well make the other Rubicon options available as well....like 4:1 and the same D44s and gearing. That would cannibalize their flagship though, so I doubt that will happen....

If it did, it would hurt Rubicon resale for obvious reasons.

My point was that if Jeep didn't offer 4:1 and the upgraded D44s, then it's not really an apples to apples comparison to Ford since they are allegedly going to make the offroad packages available to all trim levels. What that means right now....no one knows. We're talking about a vehicle that isn't even available for sale.
I see what you're saying now. In that case, you're absolutely right. FWIW, I'm sure Jeep doesn't care too much about resale value of vehicles they already sold, unless they're thinking lease returns. If they thought they could make more money offering Rubicon Options a la carte, I'm sure they'd do it.

FYI: This is what I was basing my assessment on, but it looks like there may be even more option levels here as well: Bronco Trims

Also also: https://www.motortrend.com/news/ford-bronco-sasquatch-manual/

Also also also: Important: We don't know any details (outside of marketing materials) of the GOAT 4WD system. It's similar to the Grand Cherokee's twisty dial system, from all appearances, with a computer using set parameters for traction etc depending on your selection on the dial. It doesn't seem like a transfer case you physically shift into low range. For people who HATE things like traction control computers, there sure are an awful lot who are falling over themselves to give Bronco a distinct advantage. The reveal was good but the actual Launch could go as well as the Ford Explorer Launch did in 2019

This isn't me defending or Fanboying over Jeep (gods know FCA has a long way to go)- I'm just saying, keep your expectations realistic.

(EDITS: Grammar, trying to make sense and not come off as a harsh prick because i really don't mean it like that. Multitasking is hard)
 

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My latest issue of Car and Driver says 29995 (30k) for a base Bronco. Sasquatch requires automatic trans. If your other numbers are right, you're closer to $37k. To put this in perspective, I got my manual trans, V6 Rubicon for $38k, and the Bronco falls short in both areas.
For me anyway.
Sasquatch is now being made available with a manual. so yes a base 2dr is 35K. i think its a great value. Does it have all the Jeep intangibles? No. is it out yet? no. is it proven yet? No. Im a die hard Jeep guy having owned 7 iirc. This bronco is interesting and stimulates competition, which is good for everyone.
 

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Sasquatch is now being made available with a manual. so yes a base 2dr is 35K. i think its a great value. Does it have all the Jeep intangibles? No. is it out yet? no. is it proven yet? No. Im a die hard Jeep guy having owned 7 iirc. This bronco is interesting and stimulates competition, which is good for everyone.
Exactly. I do really like Bronco because it falls into the same category as the Rubicon- vehicles that should by no reasonable means exist or look as good, and yet, it does both. As an enthusiast and vehicle design snob, this thing is really interesting.
 

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I definitely would have purchased the Bronco over my JL if it was available. Just the sport bar delete and the frameless doors alone sold me. However I do like how our base models have more ground clearance than theirs, but that's easily changed with tires.
 

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