Sponsored

Will the 4xe be unusable in hot weather?!

azwjowner

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2020
Threads
10
Messages
1,395
Reaction score
2,396
Location
Phoenix
Vehicle(s)
2022 JL; 2004 WJ (sold but never forgotten)
I live in Phoenix and was thinking about buying a 4xe this fall. But in reading the Hybrid Supplement (https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/downloads/2021-Wrangler-4xe-Hybrid-Supplement.pdf) it looks like the 4xe will refuse to start if the batteries are over 131 F and it's not plugged in. The batteries are in the passenger compartment, and that temperature is reached in an hour or less parked in the summer sun here. Am I missing something? I could understand if the batteries can't be used or charged when they're that hot, but to prevent the Jeep from starting at all is nuts. I thought I was misreading the manual but it's listed multiple times. Why can't it just run on the gas engine? This totally kills the 4xe for me.

Page 7:

If the battery temperature is below -22°F (-30°C), or 131°F (55°C) or above, the vehicle will NOT start:If the vehicle is plugged in at these battery temperatures, the instrument cluster will display the message “Please Leave Key In RUN — Battery Conditioning Needed”.If the vehicle is not plugged in at these battery temperatures, the “Plug In Vehicle To Condition Battery” will be shown in the instrument cluster display.
Page 27:

NOTE:In extreme climates (hot or cold environments), the vehicle will need to be plugged in prior to starting the vehicle, or the vehicle may not start
Page 76:

If the HV battery is not able to condition itself and it becomes cold enough (or hot enough), the vehicle will not start until the HV battery’s cell temperatures are between -22°F (-30°C) and 122°F (50°C)
Sponsored

 

Craigzjeep

Well-Known Member
First Name
Craig
Joined
Apr 13, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
431
Reaction score
1,510
Location
Mt. Rainier
Vehicle(s)
2019 Sting Gray
Occupation
Telco Installer, retired. Current job drinking beer and yard work expert.
Not sure I would trust those batteries anywhere, you might get better milage but gasoline always works.
 

Gazelle

Well-Known Member
First Name
Eric
Joined
Jun 3, 2020
Threads
12
Messages
543
Reaction score
851
Location
Seattle
Vehicle(s)
JLUR 4xe ordered 11/6/20; delivered 5/13/21
Build Thread
Link
... it looks like the 4xe will refuse to start if the batteries are over 131 F and it's not plugged in...
I've pointed this out to my salesman who said he would he'd file a star case {?} on this issue. I also asked Jeep Chat how much AC current draw the battery conditioner (cooling system) takes. The answer was less than useful, though, as Jeep considers that information proprietary. I will measure it at some point, but for the heating function of the battery conditioner not the cooling function.

Like you stated, the interior will quickly exceed those temperatures in certain areas where many people live. Just parking a black 4xe in the sunlight with windows rolled up will prevent the vehicle from starting. Similarly, if you live in Northern Ontario, or Saskatchewan, you might run into the low temperature limit.

In my area, the temperature extremes aren't usually that extreme. I should be fine, most of the time, but I have considered a separate battery pack and inverter to power the "battery conditioner" long enough to allow me to start the vehicle. Hence the query about battery conditioner power consumption. At the least, I will need to find the location of the battery temperature sensor so I can unplug, heat, or cool it enough to allow the engine to start.

So, yah, this is one MAJOR design flaw for this model, and I'm more than a little upset about it. I understand why it was done (to preserve battery life), but it seems there should be another solution. For now, if you're in the desert, roll down your windows and cool your interior before starting. If you're in the cold, just start a small campfire under your jeep, or turn on your propane heater inside the vehicle while you shiver in the cold waiting for the battery to warm up enough that the Jeep starts.
 

pdpardue

Well-Known Member
First Name
Paul
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
88
Reaction score
93
Location
Honolulu
Vehicle(s)
1997 Cherokee sport, 2021 4xe rubicon
Does this imply that it would not default to gas in those conditions until the battery is conditioned properly?
 

Sponsored

Cypher

Well-Known Member
First Name
J
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Threads
37
Messages
2,424
Reaction score
2,216
Location
AZ
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLUR Eco-Diesel now. 18, 19, 20 JLUR 3.6 old.
Occupation
Cybersecurity Leader
Vehicle Showcase
5
I live in Phoenix and was thinking about buying a 4xe this fall. But in reading the Hybrid Supplement (https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/downloads/2021-Wrangler-4xe-Hybrid-Supplement.pdf) it looks like the 4xe will refuse to start if the batteries are over 131 F and it's not plugged in. The batteries are in the passenger compartment, and that temperature is reached in an hour or less parked in the summer sun here. Am I missing something? I could understand if the batteries can't be used or charged when they're that hot, but to prevent the Jeep from starting at all is nuts. I thought I was misreading the manual but it's listed multiple times. Why can't it just run on the gas engine? This totally kills the 4xe for me.

Page 7:



Page 27:



Page 76:
I heard about this a while back as well. This alone is why I chose to not order the 4Xe living here in AZ. I could imagine being stranded out in the desert after stopping to relax and eat etc. 30 min to an hour here in Summer and thats going to exceed the temps. The heat here is also why I stick with cloth seats even though I prefer leather
 

Crawldad

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2021
Threads
7
Messages
330
Reaction score
394
Location
Hagerstown, MD
Vehicle(s)
'21 2dr wrangler rubicon, '18 Ram3500
south: heat eats the interiors of cars, heat is the enemy of batteries (of all types), cars dont rust as much, but get patina
north: salt eats the bodies. interiors are fine. batteries don't work when it gets really cold, hard to start. once running they are fine.

heat degrades/lowers the lifespan of all batteries. if you are into electronics / building pc's / servers / routers etc... electronic components get degraded by heat as well over time. (lower lifespan) that is why all high end data centers are cooled 24/7.

flip all this upside down for australia
 

Gazelle

Well-Known Member
First Name
Eric
Joined
Jun 3, 2020
Threads
12
Messages
543
Reaction score
851
Location
Seattle
Vehicle(s)
JLUR 4xe ordered 11/6/20; delivered 5/13/21
Build Thread
Link
Does this imply that it would not default to gas in those conditions until the battery is conditioned properly?
Yes, according to the manual.

My sarcasm and frustration is (hopefully) evident in my long response above. This problem should have been resolved by JEEP in another way.

I suspect the limitation is in place to ensure battery life. Running the batteries hard at those extreme temperatures, high or low, will certainly reduce their lifespan, but if my JL is cold or heat soaked I will likely accept reduced battery capacity in order to get out of those extreme temperatures.
 

runningshoes

Well-Known Member
First Name
Eli
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
173
Reaction score
244
Location
Chicagoland
Vehicle(s)
2019 JLUR
As a point of comparison, Tesla batteries lose about about a quarter to a third of their output in Chicago winters, with a portion of that loss going to keep the interior above certain temp points. I would guess that this was Tesla's way of avoiding the problem described above with the 4xe. Hard to do that with the much smaller battery on the Jeep.
 

Sponsored

pdpardue

Well-Known Member
First Name
Paul
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
88
Reaction score
93
Location
Honolulu
Vehicle(s)
1997 Cherokee sport, 2021 4xe rubicon
Yes, according to the manual.

My sarcasm and frustration is (hopefully) evident in my long response above. This problem should have been resolved by JEEP in another way.

I suspect the limitation is in place to ensure battery life. Running the batteries hard at those extreme temperatures, high or low, will certainly reduce their lifespan, but if my JL is cold or heat soaked I will likely accept reduced battery capacity in order to get out of those extreme temperatures.
My assumption would be to not use battery at all in either extreme condition if it meant either reduced capacity or potential damage and would be more than fine to use the gas engine to get going and give the system time to adjust to a more desirable working temperature, but the way you’re making it sound is that no part of the drivetrain including the gas engine would work and that just doesn’t seem like it could be accurate.

are we sure it’s not referring JUST to the electric/battery system being shut down and unusable?
 
OP
OP

azwjowner

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2020
Threads
10
Messages
1,395
Reaction score
2,396
Location
Phoenix
Vehicle(s)
2022 JL; 2004 WJ (sold but never forgotten)
are we sure it’s not referring JUST to the electric/battery system being shut down and unusable?
This is why I posted seeking confirmation -- because it sounds totally insane as written. How can you sell vehicles that intentionally strand people during summer months? But as Gazelle and I interpret the manual, it clearly states that the Jeep will not start if the battery temperature exceeds 131 F.
 

dunehole

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Jan 6, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
50
Reaction score
51
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicle(s)
21 Sahara 4xe (on order), Subaru Legacy
My assumption would be to not use battery at all in either extreme condition if it meant either reduced capacity or potential damage and would be more than fine to use the gas engine to get going and give the system time to adjust to a more desirable working temperature, but the way you’re making it sound is that no part of the drivetrain including the gas engine would work and that just doesn’t seem like it could be accurate.

are we sure it’s not referring JUST to the electric/battery system being shut down and unusable?

I think I am in the same boat with your logic, I know that the way the manual supplement is written it implies the Jeep won't start at all. But that just doesn't seem a feasible work around to me. I have to believe at this point what they intended to say was that the electric motor will not start in those extreme temps.
 

CJ SCION

Well-Known Member
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Threads
31
Messages
222
Reaction score
303
Location
Michigan
Vehicle(s)
2022 JLUD Hardtop, 2016 JK 2-door Ragtop
Occupation
Tired Again
I have this concern also but for cold climates and started a thread. https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/cold-climate-4xe-ownership.67775/
Although there were some good posts in that thread, answers may only be available after some real world use by the end users.
A little side note to some posts here: liquid metal batteries love heat and must be kept in the 600 degree celcius range to keep the metal liquid., talk about a long life battery. Google antimony/calcium batteries, not practical for cars but will be great for the power grid.
Sponsored

 
 



Top