Will the 392 Join in the end game?

guarnibl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
1,916
Reaction score
1,652
Location
Scottsdale
Vehicle(s)
'21 JLUR 392 XR, '21 JTR, '21 JLR, '09 JK
The average American cannot afford an electric vehicle.
Not relevant IMO ( since they can’t afford a new car anyway ) — they’re not outlawing used ICEs and there’s electric vehicles out there that price out under the average transaction price of a new vehicle. Not to mention monthly cash flow expense on them will be lower vs ICE comparison for vast majority new vs new.

Auto manufacturers clearly don’t care about the average American based on what they’re focused on producing lately.

I would say though that there are probably a lot of people that want to drive one that can’t afford one and are stuck with an used ICE if that’s what you were saying. I just don’t think those people were buying new in the first place — and if they were, they probably can indeed now or will soon be able to get one for the same cost new.
Advertisement

 
Last edited:

mwilk012

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Messages
5,078
Reaction score
4,700
Location
Oklahoma
Vehicle(s)
2018 Ocean Blue JLU Rubicon
Not relevant IMO ( since they can’t afford a new car anyway ) — they’re not outlawing used ICEs and there’s electric vehicles out there that price out under the average transaction price of a new vehicle. Not to mention monthly cash flow expense on them will be lower vs ICE comparison for vast majority new vs new.

Auto manufacturers clearly don’t care about the average American based on what they’re focused on producing lately.

I would say though that there are probably a lot of people that want to drive one that can’t afford one and are stuck with an used ICE if that’s what you were saying. I just don’t think those people were buying new in the first place — and if they were, they probably can indeed now or will soon be able to get one for the same cost new.
Why don’t you just say that you hate poor people?
How many years before people are stuck with cars whose battery capacities have depleted so far that they have no useful range? Replacing batteries is prohibitively expensive. It’s like being forced to buy a new engine every decade.
 

Uncommon Sense

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
76
Reaction score
119
Location
Chicago
Vehicle(s)
JGC
I have a '22 392 on order. I am kind of a weirdo in that I also love electric cars, but I also like loud v8s. I put my money down on a 392 because it will likely be the last of its kind. The loud v8 and sleeper 0 to 60 was just too much for me to pass up. Kind of like a G63 without the kardashians. It has just enough luxuries to keep me comfy, but still retains the simplicity and off road chops of a stripper jeep. Perfect vehicle for me.

With that said, I wish Jeep would make a "performance" 4xe. Basically instead of range, tune it so that it has the 392 performance 0-60 but with electric / hybrid set up. I could careless about the range.

I don't get the range anxiety and charge times phobias though. The vast majority of people drive like 25 miles or less a day. The cars are charged at night at home or at the office, so you always leave the house full so to speak.

I disagree with the mandates. I do think the free market will continue to push towards electric, especially if manufacturers stop trying to make tron cars and go the Tesla route where the cars look somewhat normal without all the neon and other stupid sh!t legacy car companies do with electric cars.
 

gerlbaum

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Aug 28, 2021
Messages
231
Reaction score
180
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangle Sport Diesel
I don’t understand why it’s always a one or another deal. EV sedans will probably be the norm but I seriously doubt the light duty diesel (and obviously the heavy duty diesel) will be replaced with an EV anything. The Rivian may replace the Tacoma but the thing weighs in at 8500 lbs. It’s not the range that is a concern it is the charge time for me. Lol I used to drive a k10 and it had a 15 gallon saddle tank that only got me 150 miles. But it took 5 min to fill up. I watched a NOVA and the ability to charge batteries faster than we have today is decades off if ever. You’re currently looking at 35 to 45 min charge time to go from 20% to 80%. From what I understand the f150 EV isn’t or is barely making trip digit mileage towing a couple thousand pounds.

I see EV sedans, EVs in defined route delivery vehicles, and some EV mid sized trucks.

i have a lot of tools. When I need a light duty quick job I grab my cordless drill. But if I ever need to drill concrete that thing doesn’t have the long lasting power in hammer drill mode. So I take my big heavy duty plug in hammer drill.
 

gerlbaum

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Aug 28, 2021
Messages
231
Reaction score
180
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangle Sport Diesel
One other thing. I don’t think I’ll ever own an EV. They’re just so vanilla to me. I’d lease one but that’s about it. They just don’t do anything for me.
 

guarnibl

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
1,916
Reaction score
1,652
Location
Scottsdale
Vehicle(s)
'21 JLUR 392 XR, '21 JTR, '21 JLR, '09 JK
Charging time will get sorted but it’ll take a decade I think. But it’ll get to 80% in 5 minutes. It’s already been POC’d.

Don’t get me wrong I love my ICE’s but it’s pretty obvious where investment dollars are going.
 

Uncommon Sense

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
76
Reaction score
119
Location
Chicago
Vehicle(s)
JGC
I don’t understand why it’s always a one or another deal. EV sedans will probably be the norm but I seriously doubt the light duty diesel (and obviously the heavy duty diesel) will be replaced with an EV anything. The Rivian may replace the Tacoma but the thing weighs in at 8500 lbs. It’s not the range that is a concern it is the charge time for me. Lol I used to drive a k10 and it had a 15 gallon saddle tank that only got me 150 miles. But it took 5 min to fill up. I watched a NOVA and the ability to charge batteries faster than we have today is decades off if ever. You’re currently looking at 35 to 45 min charge time to go from 20% to 80%. From what I understand the f150 EV isn’t or is barely making trip digit mileage towing a couple thousand pounds.

I see EV sedans, EVs in defined route delivery vehicles, and some EV mid sized trucks.

i have a lot of tools. When I need a light duty quick job I grab my cordless drill. But if I ever need to drill concrete that thing doesn’t have the long lasting power in hammer drill mode. So I take my big heavy duty plug in hammer drill.
EVs are practical for most commuters, but there are situations where an EV is simply not practical. Anyone with a long commute, significant towing, or just where range is needed and an inability to charge.
I don’t understand why it’s always a one or another deal. EV sedans will probably be the norm but I seriously doubt the light duty diesel (and obviously the heavy duty diesel) will be replaced with an EV anything. The Rivian may replace the Tacoma but the thing weighs in at 8500 lbs. It’s not the range that is a concern it is the charge time for me. Lol I used to drive a k10 and it had a 15 gallon saddle tank that only got me 150 miles. But it took 5 min to fill up. I watched a NOVA and the ability to charge batteries faster than we have today is decades off if ever. You’re currently looking at 35 to 45 min charge time to go from 20% to 80%. From what I understand the f150 EV isn’t or is barely making trip digit mileage towing a couple thousand pounds.

I see EV sedans, EVs in defined route delivery vehicles, and some EV mid sized trucks.

i have a lot of tools. When I need a light duty quick job I grab my cordless drill. But if I ever need to drill concrete that thing doesn’t have the long lasting power in hammer drill mode. So I take my big heavy duty plug in hammer drill.
Definitely shouldn't be one or the other.

For people that live in urban areas, charging and is largely a non-issue.
One other thing. I don’t think I’ll ever own an EV. They’re just so vanilla to me. I’d lease one but that’s about it. They just don’t do anything for me.
I am a huge fan of EVs but I can admit they lack personality. They are kind of like watching an action movie on mute.
 

AVGeek99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Aug 24, 2021
Messages
230
Reaction score
316
Location
Delano, MN
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLUR, 2021 Sahara 4xe (wife's)
I don't get the range anxiety and charge times phobias though. The vast majority of people drive like 25 miles or less a day. The cars are charged at night at home or at the office, so you always leave the house full so to speak.
Maybe for a commuter car. Range and charge times are a very big concern for long road trips. Range for a pure EV is even a bigger deal when you are going off road. I'd like to see a pure EV complete the Rubicon on a single charge. It's not a lot of miles, but those EV mileage ranges are based on paved road driving, not rock crawling.

Of course, in the grand scheme of things, the rock crawling crowd is very small. But small groups of constituents mean nothing when the gov't is throwing out mandates.
 

The Last Cowboy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Jul 2, 2020
Messages
2,039
Reaction score
3,579
Location
San Antonio, TX
Vehicle(s)
2020 JL Willys 2 door
Occupation
Wandering Vaquero
@Uncommon Sense

Range “phobias” are concerns for those who live in small towns or rural areas and have the need to make longer than average commutes or need to travel from one town to another. Often, there will not be charging available. There are many places in the country that aren’t urbanized. Sometimes parents will drive their kids 150-200 miles one way for a high school football game. Many people in flyover country drive 3-4k miles a month.

Most residential wiring isn‘t set up to deliver what’s needed for a level 2 charger. That is also a significant extra cost. Unless you want to do it halfway with an adapter. Apartment dwellers really don’t have a home charging option. Right now electric cars are really only suited for those who own a home and can afford to buy the car plus the proper charging system.

If Ford can bring out the charger they are developing it will be an absolute game changer. It’s liquid cooled and will charge a car in 5 minutes. That competes with gas pumps. Charging station don’t need massive underground tanks, so there could be more charging stations built. Every pump island would probably need to have it’s own cooling system though.

My biggest issue with EVs is the ability to travel as easily as I travel now. I like back roads and 2 lane highways. I would not want to have to stay on interstates in order to find convenient charge stations that get you to 80% in an hour or two.
 
Last edited:

Spank

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2017
Messages
1,731
Reaction score
2,645
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, 2020 Dodge Challenger RT Scat Pack
EV's will truly take off when they're just as quick and convenient to charge as it is to fill an ICE vehicle with gas. It's really that simple.
 

Uncommon Sense

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
76
Reaction score
119
Location
Chicago
Vehicle(s)
JGC
EV's will truly take off when they're just as quick and convenient to charge as it is to fill an ICE vehicle with gas. It's really that simple.
You have to get out of the ICE mindset.

An ev car is rarely filled up like a gas car. In most cases, you aren't running the car down to empty and then charging. You are basically charging it every single night when you park. Pretty much every morning, the car has a full charge when you leave for work. Pull into garage, and it is charged again that night.
 

Uncommon Sense

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
76
Reaction score
119
Location
Chicago
Vehicle(s)
JGC
@Uncommon Sense

Range “phobias” are concernes for those who live in small towns or rural areas and have the need to make longer than average commutes or need to travel from one town to another. Often, there will not be charging available. There are many places in the country that aren’t urbanized. Sometimes parents will drive their kids 150-200 miles one way for a high school football game. Many people in flyover country drive 3-4k miles a month.

Most residential wiring is ‘t set up to deliver what’s needed for a level 2 charger. That is also a significant extra cost. Unless you want to do it halfway with an adapter. Apartment dwellers really don’t have a home charging option. Right now electric cars are really only suited for those who own a home and can afford to buy the car plus the proper charging system.

If Ford can bring out the charger they are developing it will be an absolute game changer. It’s liquid cooled and will charge a car in 5 minutes. That competes with gas pumps. Charging station don’t need massive underground tanks, so there could be more charging stations built. Every pump island would probably need to have it’s own cooling system though.

My biggest issue with EVs is the ability to travel as easily as I travel now. I like back roads and 2 lane highways. I would not want to have to stay on interstes in order to find convenient charge stations that get you to 80% in an hour or two.
Yeah, people that live far out are obviously not a good fit for EVs. Neither are people who might be overlanding, etc. However, for the majority that live in an urban metro areas, the range and charging infrastructure is already there. If anything is holding people back, it is price of EVs.
 

Spank

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2017
Messages
1,731
Reaction score
2,645
Location
Colorado
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon, 2020 Dodge Challenger RT Scat Pack
An ev car is rarely filled up like a gas car. In most cases, you aren't running the car down to empty and then charging.
I'm talking massive adoption that literally kills internal combustion engines. That means EV's that can go across the entire country and be charged quickly and easily. Yes, EV fans and enthusiasts understand not running the battery to empty and the importance of their limited range. The general public does not. They don't give a shit about charging networks, the rare metals involved in the production of batteries, carbon credits this, or emissions that. They want it simple, fast, and with the smallest amount of effort necessary.

Internal combustion engines are more than a century old and people still, to this day, don't know you have to change the oil.

You'll see EV adoption skyrocket real quick when these vehicles they have the exact same (if not better) range, convenience, and quick "refuel" time of a standard ICE vehicle and people can do so no matter what state, city, or podunk town they're in.
 

gerlbaum

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Aug 28, 2021
Messages
231
Reaction score
180
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangle Sport Diesel
Yeah, people that live far out are obviously not a good fit for EVs. Neither are people who might be overlanding, etc. However, for the majority that live in an urban metro areas, the range and charging infrastructure is already there. If anything is holding people back, it is price of EVs.
True but why would I spend $44k on a sedan when I can buy an electric GEM car (glorified golf cart) that does 60 miles a day, and has hvac for $11k? Or I can just ride my bicycle and be healthier? I’d rather own a diesel and walk to the grocery store and Uber when necessary. You can eliminate c02 and the EV by incentivizing work from home.

Using Tesla, since they are the so called EV leader, they warranty their batteries to 70% after 8 years. Who on earth is going to buy a 9 yo used car with 100k+ miles that has lost 30% of is performance and it will exponentially decrease further as times goes on since batteries don’t degrade linearly. There is a limited used market.

NPR said 2021 saw a 24% reduction in c02 because of work from home. EVs only reduce carbon output by 22% compared to their gas counterpart (see MIT). So Americans now have the largest debt load per person and per capita that we’ve ever had and now the “best” option we’ve come up with is the government encouraging vanity and more indebtedness?

I can’t help and be skeptical of this approach. ICE engines have been around for 100 years, what crisis is this EV revolution going to cause in 100 years?

I wish we stuck with horses so I didn’t have to listen to the complaining.
 

2nd 392

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Jun 20, 2021
Messages
460
Reaction score
576
Location
Ca
Vehicle(s)
Grand Cherokee srt.V10 Dodge 4x
True but why would I spend $44k on a sedan when I can buy an electric GEM car (glorified golf cart) that does 60 miles a day, and has hvac for $11k? Or I can just ride my bicycle and be healthier? I’d rather own a diesel and walk to the grocery store and Uber when necessary. You can eliminate c02 and the EV by incentivizing work from home.

Using Tesla, since they are the so called EV leader, they warranty their batteries to 70% after 8 years. Who on earth is going to buy a 9 yo used car with 100k+ miles that has lost 30% of is performance and it will exponentially decrease further as times goes on since batteries don’t degrade linearly. There is a limited used market.

NPR said 2021 saw a 24% reduction in c02 because of work from home. EVs only reduce carbon output by 22% compared to their gas counterpart (see MIT). So Americans now have the largest debt load per person and per capita that we’ve ever had and now the “best” option we’ve come up with is the government encouraging vanity and more indebtedness?

I can’t help and be skeptical of this approach. ICE engines have been around for 100 years, what crisis is this EV revolution going to cause in 100 years?

I wish we stuck with horses so I didn’t have to listen to the complaining.
They would be complaining about the Methane expelled by horse farts!
 
Advertisement

Rubitrux
 
Advertisement
Top