Wife drove in 4L for 20 Miles at 60 miles per hour.

[WilhelmSR]

Who’s running 5.13 gears with stock tires?

There's always one out there

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[FWB FL]

She said the engine sounded like it was straining.

It sounded like it was going to blow up, She is very strong to get it 4 L

 

[sf5211]

Some of the comments in this thread about women in Jeeps are just plain ignorant. Some folks are still having a 1950s mindset. Here are some pics below to show them that we are in the 21st century in case those folks forgot that. As a father to a 3 year old girl, I can relate to the first pic for sure

Top pic......to cute!
Bottom pic......she needs a jack stand.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Correct on the driveshaft speed, strictly vehicle speed + rear end

Oh really? They originally claimed 60 mph for a solid 20 miles, then later said it ‘may have’ been closer to 50 mph but they don’t know. I’d be most worried about all the stress that binding causes driving on the street going around turns, driving around a clover leaf to get on/off the freeway, and tight turns at lights at speed. How slick are we talking here? A little water on the pavement is not enough slippage (seriously, on public roads? We talking dirt roads, or pavement? I’m assuming pavement considering the claimed speeds and it couldn’t be that slick out considering the speed claimed) and the stress that causes to components in the transfer case is significant. It’s not recommended, it’s silly that anyone would claim it’s just fine to do so and that zero wear will/can occur.

Overheating sounds like less of a concern in this situation, but I’d be interested in checking out the fluid to see its condition if this were my Jeep. Saying that nothing was done wrong is false, mistakes were made by driving on pavement in 4L when the conditions allow for highway speeds.

And again, just because people go full Lite Brite on their Jeeps does not make it ok to do. I’ve known a lot of people that wheel like that over the years, and they do break stuff regularly. I applaud the people that go hard, but hopefully people new to wheeling don’t read some of this stuff and think the Jeep can take it in stock form without likely taking some damage. Nobody should be driving on the pavement in 4L unless the pavement is covered significantly by something else.



I wonder how on earth virtually the same transmission holds up to more than triple the horsepower spinning high rpms at 210mph in a demon, I'm sure this short stint had to have killed it. Binding could cause damage in high traction situations be it pavement, slick rock, or bound up between boulders. I still argue that aired down, axles locked, with the extra torque multiplication of the 4:1 in a boulder field is far harder on our drivetrains than accidentally hitting the freeway in 4lo. The transfer case could have seen extra load from the binding, but that is short lived as at street pressure the tire will scrub far early than you'll break components. I've driven beater rigs on the street with welded difs and aside from some tire chirp in tight corners they were fine. Nobody is recommending 4lo on the freeway, but being that clearly no gears were chipped and the tcase didn't stretch the chain or split the case, no damage was done. An oil change for the tcase and there's nothing to worry about.

 

[Bruce Willys]

I wonder how on earth virtually the same transmission holds up to more than triple the horsepower spinning high rpms at 210mph in a demon, I'm sure this short stint had to have killed it. Binding could cause damage in high traction situations be it pavement, slick rock, or bound up between boulders. I still argue that aired down, axles locked, with the extra torque multiplication of the 4:1 in a boulder field is far harder on our drivetrains than accidentally hitting the freeway in 4lo. The transfer case could have seen extra load from the binding, but that is short lived as at street pressure the tire will scrub far early than you'll break components. I've driven beater rigs on the street with welded difs and aside from some tire chirp in tight corners they were fine. Nobody is recommending 4lo on the freeway, but being that clearly no gears were chipped and the tcase didn't stretch the chain or split the case, no damage was done. An oil change for the tcase and there's nothing to worry about.

It's not virtually the same transmission, the ZF 8-speed in the Wrangler (not diesel) is rated for 500 lb-ft. The ZF 8-speed in the Demon is rated for 1000 lb-ft. I'm with you, the Jeep can probably take the abuse, but I wouldn't want someone driving my Jeep onto the freeway in 4L.

I have my doubts that driving in a boulder field is 'far harder on the transfer case' than bidding up around a turn at street speeds in 4L on dry pavement. Unless you're talking about going WOT in 4L through the boulder field recklessly, not with a competent driver picking their line/tire placement and driving with respect for the terrain/situation.

When did I recommend anything other than a fluid change? All I said is that the potential to cause damage is there, and it's not good to do so in response to the people (like you) saying that there definietly is ZERO damage or increased wear by doing so.

 

[Zandcwhite]

It's not virtually the same transmission, the ZF 8-speed in the Wrangler (not diesel) is rated for 500 lb-ft. The ZF 8-speed in the Demon is rated for 1000 lb-ft. I'm with you, the Jeep can probably take the abuse, but I wouldn't want someone driving my Jeep onto the freeway in 4L.

I have my doubts that driving in a boulder field is 'far harder on the transfer case' than bidding up around a turn at street speeds in 4L on dry pavement. Unless you're talking about going WOT in 4L through the boulder field recklessly, not with a competent driver picking their line/tire placement and driving with respect for the terrain/situation.

Sometimes the terrain and situation require wot. Beyond that, the torque loading and shock loading, not to mention the binding created in many off road situations far exceeds the load of chirping a fully inflated tire on a clover leaf in my opinion. When a tire is pushing into an undercut before it starts to climb for instance. Nothing broke, therefore no damage was done. Still not advisable.

 

[Mtpockets]

To the OP, any updates?
Did you change any fluids yet?

 

[wibornz]

Oh really? They originally claimed 60 mph for a solid 20 miles, then later said it ‘may have’ been closer to 50 mph but they don’t know. I’d be most worried about all the stress that binding causes driving on the street going around turns, driving around a clover leaf to get on/off the freeway, and tight turns at lights at speed. How slick are we talking here? A little water on the pavement is not enough slippage (seriously, on public roads? We talking dirt roads, or pavement? I’m assuming pavement considering the claimed speeds and it couldn’t be that slick out considering the speed claimed) and the stress that causes to components in the transfer case is significant. It’s not recommended, it’s silly that anyone would claim it’s just fine to do so and that zero wear will/can occur.

Overheating sounds like less of a concern in this situation, but I’d be interested in checking out the fluid to see its condition if this were my Jeep. Saying that nothing was done wrong is false, mistakes were made by driving on pavement in 4L when the conditions allow for highway speeds.

And again, just because people go full Lite Brite on their Jeeps does not make it ok to do. I’ve known a lot of people that wheel like that over the years, and they do break stuff regularly. I applaud the people that go hard, but hopefully people new to wheeling don’t read some of this stuff and think the Jeep can take it in stock form without likely taking some damage. Nobody should be driving on the pavement in 4L unless the pavement is covered significantly by something else.

The binding is not really an issue. It just sounds and feels worse than it is. Thousands and thousands of Jeeps are in 4low in Moab for over 20 miles of trails at a time and Moab has incredible amounts of traction. And that is also on bigger than stock tires that are aired down. If you wheeled in Moab for a day or two, it may not even register to you that you are turning in 4low with gobs of traction. Same thing on the Rubicon trail.

 

[wibornz]

There's always one out there

or a hundred. There are people who take the big tires off for winter around me and put the stocks back on.

 

[sf5211]

or a hundred. There are people who take the big tires off for winter around me and put the stocks back on.

Hi Ted, educate me please. Why would someone put smaller tires on during winter?
Also, I know you guys are seasoned veterans on the trails, sorry I’m a rookie. What’s does WOT mean?

 

[wibornz]

Hi Ted, educate me please. Why would someone put smaller tires on during winter?
Also, I know you guys are seasoned veterans on the trails, sorry I’m a rookie. What’s does WOT mean?

12.5 and 13.5 wide tires are not ideal for the winter. They tend to float on top of the snow where as the skinny tires dig in better.

I have a bud that runs the stock tires in winter. I don't change mine out as hey its a Jeep. I don't think that is all that much better. But hey to each their own. Granted, I am not daily driving my JLUR in the winter like he is. When the roads are bad, I am driving the Shit Box XJ.

WOT = wide open throttle. mat that gas......

 

[Bruce Willys]

The binding is not really an issue. It just sounds and feels worse than it is. Thousands and thousands of Jeeps are in 4low in Moab for over 20 miles of trails at a time and Moab has incredible amounts of traction. And that is also on bigger than stock tires that are aired down. If you wheeled in Moab for a day or two, it may not even register to you that you are turning in 4low with gobs of traction. Same thing on the Rubicon trail.

Meh, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. The difference of wheel speed on the street at higher speeds when binding occurs will cause a lot of force to be transmitted with nowhere to go, there will be a lot of stress transferred to the driveline as the wheel speeds are forced to equalize. From what I've heard of Moab/Rubicon, you can walk a lot of the trails faster than you can drive them (I've never been). That doesn't sound like you'd need to take a turn at high speeds in 4L, or even be able to go higher speeds on most of it so some binding while making tight turns doesn't sound like it would have anywhere near the amount of force that throwing your Jeep into a turn at street speeds and having all that force bind up the components. Climbing difficult obstacles (hard, high traction obstacles) will not cause binding like that either when done correctly/in control. Yeah, if people are flying over things spinning tires and bouncing axles up and down without really being in good control, that causes its own stresses.

FYI, I spend pretty much every weekend up in the mountains in 4L all day. I'm not trying to say we need to baby these things, or faulting anyone for doing what they want with their Jeep. I was just point out that binding up on the street on pavement is not the same thing as taking tight turns on a trail in 4L and binding. There's way more force behind it on the street (or more exactly, at higher speeds where the tires can't break traction). I'm also still not getting why people are not disengaging 4L for higher speed sections of trail (that they also need to make a high speed, tight turn on?..), but to each their own.

 

[AnnDee4444]

If it's about the rpms, why do they have the same mph limit for rubicon 4-1 t-cases?

Probably so they can print one owner's manual.

I still don’t think it was 4 low. If you do a basic conversion on low top speed would be about half of the top speed of 110. That puts you at 55. So as already pointed out, the rev limiter would be screaming.

I found a gear calculation website, but didn't have the 2.72 t-case ratio. Thanks for the thorough breakdown.

I built a JL/JT specific gear calculator (link to the sticky in my signature). The second tab calculates the speed in each gear.

Spoiler alert: The correct answer is in the 13th post on the first page:

 

[word302]

Meh, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. The difference of wheel speed on the street at higher speeds when binding occurs will cause a lot of force to be transmitted with nowhere to go, there will be a lot of stress transferred to the driveline as the wheel speeds are forced to equalize. From what I've heard of Moab/Rubicon, you can walk a lot of the trails faster than you can drive them (I've never been). That doesn't sound like you'd need to take a turn at high speeds in 4L, or even be able to go higher speeds on most of it so some binding while making tight turns doesn't sound like it would have anywhere near the amount of force that throwing your Jeep into a turn at street speeds and having all that force bind up the components. Climbing difficult obstacles (hard, high traction obstacles) will not cause binding like that either when done correctly/in control. Yeah, if people are flying over things spinning tires and bouncing axles up and down without really being in good control, that causes its own stresses.

FYI, I spend pretty much every weekend up in the mountains in 4L all day. I'm not trying to say we need to baby these things, or faulting anyone for doing what they want with their Jeep. I was just point out that binding up on the street on pavement is not the same thing as taking tight turns on a trail in 4L and binding. There's way more force behind it on the street (or more exactly, at higher speeds where the tires can't break traction). I'm also still not getting why people are not disengaging 4L for higher speed sections of trail (that they also need to make a high speed, tight turn on?..), but to each their own.

Yeah no, people don’t shear axle shafts on the street.

 

[Bruce Willys]

Yeah no, people don’t shear axle shafts on the street.

Most people never shear an axle shaft in their Jeep, period. You're talking about the type of wheeling where people don't care if they break something (where it's expected to break stuff occasionally), which is cool. It's your property, use and abuse it how you want. What I'm talking about is good practices, you do what you want bucko. If something I said was wrong, tell me why you disagree and maybe I'll learn something. Arguing that you do x all the time and nothing has broken yet is not a valid point. Binding up at high speeds on pavement (on whereever) is not good. Running 4L when you don't need it is a bad practice, it sounds like some people are doing it because they're too lazy to stop for a second and switch to the correct gearing for the situation.

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