Why a two door is better than a four door

[NYJeepGuy]

BuT WhaT aBouT thE BrEKOver angle!
The 4dr lifted for equal breakover angle beats the 2dr in every other measurement at that point from contact patch, approach/departure angles, rocker clearance, diff clearance, to water fording and is still more stable and rides better than the stock 2dr. The 4dr in that video maybe got within 4" of the rock slider, the exact height gained by his lift and tires over stock. A stock 4dr has no problem with that same line on bald mountain, ask me how I know

Why is it that people always seem to compare a lifted 4 door to a stock 2 door when they want to make the point that a 4 door is just as good off road. It’s not apples to apples if you do that. Your can lift a 2 door as well you know.

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[AnnDee4444]

BuT WhaT aBouT thE BrEKOver angle!
The 4dr lifted for equal breakover angle beats the 2dr in every other measurement at that point from contact patch, approach/departure angles, rocker clearance, diff clearance, to water fording and is still more stable and rides better than the stock 2dr. The 4dr in that video maybe got within 4" of the rock slider, the exact height gained by his lift and tires over stock. A stock 4dr has no problem with that same line on bald mountain, ask me how I know

I never said a stock 4-door couldn't do this... apparently even a lifted Subaru could do this, right?

FWIW: I'm sure you know there are other obstacles on the Bald Mountain OHV trail where my 2-door and this 4-door will scrape.

These videos were to be strictly a comparison of roughly equal breakover angles. Of course a lifted anything is going to have more approach/departure/axle clearance... that's not unique to the 4-door.

Personally my issue is that I can't fit more than about 2 inches of wheel+ tire lift in my garage. Also I don't really want to deal with the headaches or expense of a modified suspension, spare tire weight, gears, fuel mileage, etc., when I haven't really found the limits of my stiockish JLR yet anyway. I don't really have the desire to go beyond a 1" lift & 35s, and the extra initial purchase cost, worse gas mileage, and higher depreciation of the 4-door just didn't seem to be like a smart buy for me.

 

[Richtor]

BuT WhaT aBouT thE BrEKOver angle!
The 4dr lifted for equal breakover angle beats the 2dr in every other measurement at that point from contact patch, approach/departure angles, rocker clearance, diff clearance, to water fording and is still more stable and rides better than the stock 2dr. The 4dr in that video maybe got within 4" of the rock slider, the exact height gained by his lift and tires over stock. A stock 4dr has no problem with that same line on bald mountain, ask me how I know

So you now state a modified 4dr is better than a 2dr. Nice!

 

[ConqSoft]

I fail to see the need for all this discussion. Get what works for your needs. End of discussion.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Why is it that people always seem to compare a lifted 4 door to a stock 2 door when they want to make the point that a 4 door is just as good off road. It’s not apples to apples if you do that. Your can lift a 2 door as well you know.

My point is the idea that you need "x" amount of lift to make the breakover equal ignores all the other benefits of a lift and bigger tires. If you think a stock 2dr is equal to a lifted 4dr on bigger tires, you are on drugs. Stock for stock the 2dr has better breakover, is a little more maneuverable, has less stability, a rougher ride, and are basically equal otherwise.

 

[MrMischief]

I can’t imagine the MPG difference would equate to a substantial $$ savings.

I do wonder about his fuel economy claims, according to fueleconomy.gov a 2019 2 door and 4 door with the v6 and an auto both get 18 city, 23 highway, 20 combined. But lets just say you could achieve 25 mpg consistently in the the 2 door and 23 in the 4 door for 15,000 miles. That's 600 gallons in the 2 door and 652 gallons in the 4 door. First thing I found on google was AAA telling me the average cost for a gallon is $3.358. So call it $175 saved over 15,000 miles, at best. I suspect that if a person were really concerned about trying to maximize fuel savings and still have a Jeep they'd probably want the 4xe which is not available in the 2 door. I'm not smart enough to know how to try to figure savings on plug in hybrids. But unless you never charge surely the 4xe would be the best way to save money at the gas pump. Does it offset the purchase price and the shame of having to drive a 4 door? I have my doubts.

 

[MrMischief]

Stock for stock the 2dr has better breakover, is a little more maneuverable, has less stability, a rougher ride, and are basically equal otherwise.

The things you list as positives for the 2 door make it better offroad. The things you list as negatives are what make the four door better on the street. Which I think is what all of us here in the 2 door specific topics would say is exactly the point we try to make. Glad to see you agree with us.

 

[Richtor]

My point is the idea that you need "x" amount of lift to make the breakover equal ignores all the other benefits of a lift and bigger tires. If you think a stock 2dr is equal to a lifted 4dr on bigger tires, you are on drugs. Stock for stock the 2dr has better breakover, is a little more maneuverable, has less stability, a rougher ride, and are basically equal otherwise.

Exactly why the 2 dr is better. Glad you agree.

 

[Zandcwhite]

The things you list as positives for the 2 door make it better offroad. The things you list as negatives are what make the four door better on the street. Which I think is what all of us here in the 2 door specific topics would say is exactly the point we try to make. Glad to see you agree with us.

Stability is only a benefit on road…

 

[west tex]

Stability is only a benefit on road…

Saved the best for last.

Nice self recovery.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I never said a stock 4-door couldn't do this... apparently even a lifted Subaru could do this, right?

FWIW: I'm sure you know there are other obstacles on the Bald Mountain OHV trail where my 2-door and this 4-door will scrape.

These videos were to be strictly a comparison of roughly equal breakover angles. Of course a lifted anything is going to have more approach/departure/axle clearance... that's not unique to the 4-door.

Personally my issue is that I can't fit more than about 2 inches of wheel+ tire lift in my garage. Also I don't really want to deal with the headaches or expense of a modified suspension, spare tire weight, gears, fuel mileage, etc., when I haven't really found the limits of my stiockish JLR yet anyway. I don't really have the desire to go beyond a 1" lift & 35s, and the extra initial purchase cost, worse gas mileage, and higher depreciation of the 4-door just didn't seem to be like a smart buy for me.

I haven’t seen a Subaru on the v-notch, but with the proper tire placement I’m sure it is doable.

The fact of the matter is that both 2dr and 4dr are more capable than what most will ever push them to. I’d much rather find the limit of break over angle, even if it means high centered and pulling cable, than find the limit of the swb ascending or descending a hill or obstacle and the subsequent flop or roll that comes with it. There’s a reason that stretched wheelbases and comp cuts were popular before the unlimiteds came along and it has nothing to do with cargo capacity. Again, why does every custom chassis builder fall between 110” and 120” if 98” is optimal off road? Because it isn’t period.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Why is it that people always seem to compare a lifted 4 door to a stock 2 door when they want to make the point that a 4 door is just as good off road. It’s not apples to apples if you do that. Your can lift a 2 door as well you know.

In case you are unaware, that picture is from the top of bald mountain in our 4dr when it was still stock. The video implied that the 4dr needed to be lifted to climb the same obstacle and my picture was proof that you absolutely can drive a stock 4dr up there. The difference between a 2dr and a 4dr is far less than the difference between drivers. The mind blowing part is that a 4dr is only 220lbs heavier than a 2dr. How they add 20" of wheelbase, 2 drs, room for an extra passenger, a much larger top, and massively more cargo space for just 220lbs is crazy. Being that the 4dr is now available with the XR package, the 2dr doesn't even have a breakover angle advantage. Stock for stock the most off road worthy 2dr has 4.10 gears. The 4dr has 4.56. 33's vs 35's. Beefier knuckles. 1.5" more lift and 2.5" more ground clearance. Not to mention better powertrain options. Better brakes. But according to the 2dr guys, none of that matters if you state opinion as fact with no real world experience to back it up.

 

[AnnDee4444]

My stock height JLR makes me wish I had a greater breakover angle. I've scraped more times than I can count, even with the removal of the front crossmember. The rear differential is also an issue for my driving style, but not the front (I find it very easy to locate... right under the driver). The muffler is also an issue, but that is solved pretty easily. I have barely scraped the paint off of one of the front OEM steel bumper corner pieces, which I should have removed anyway.

In my opinion, I'm not sure how much I would gain from greater approach/departure. I've never been close to a front-rear roll-over situation in my JL, and a low COG can only help that situation.

Again, this is my personal experience... and I'm not as hard-core as some people.

The fact of the matter is that both 2dr and 4dr are more capable than what most will ever push them to. I’d much rather find the limit of break over angle, even if it means high centered and pulling cable, than find the limit of the swb ascending or descending a hill or obstacle and the subsequent flop or roll that comes with it. There’s a reason that stretched wheelbases and comp cuts were popular before the unlimiteds came along and it has nothing to do with cargo capacity. Again, why does every custom chassis builder fall between 110” and 120” if 98” is optimal off road? Because it isn’t period.

So if the JL is more capable than most will push them (which probably includes me), is there really any reason to optimize the wheelbase for climbing/descending performance? Or is there even a reason to add a lift? If you aren't going to lift or drive up/down extreme slopes, wouldn't the 2-door be better suited even if the 4-door can technically make it?

And for those concerned with rolling enough to influence wheelbase choice, wouldn't the fact that you've lifted your vehicle increase that chance anyway? Not just front-back, but side-side also.

The video implied that the 4dr needed to be lifted to climb the same obstacle and my picture was proof that you absolutely can drive a stock 4dr up there.

No, the posting of the video did not imply that. The video is literally me and a friend, who happens to have a lifted 4-door. If he had a stock 4-door, that's what the video would have been. As I stated before, this was to compare roughly equal breakover angles with different wheelbases on the same obstacle. I was attempting to add something useful for the conversation, and got the insightful reply "WhaT aBouT thE BrEKOver"

Also there is absolutely no reason to travel over V-rock to drive to the top of Bald Mountain. Your photo shows neither a stock height Jeep or proves that it went over V-rock. I don't doubt that it's possible or that you did it in your Subaru, so no need to tell me how wrong I am.

 

[AcesandEights]

In case you are unaware, that picture is from the top of bald mountain in our 4dr when it was still stock. The video implied that the 4dr needed to be lifted to climb the same obstacle and my picture was proof that you absolutely can drive a stock 4dr up there. The difference between a 2dr and a 4dr is far less than the difference between drivers. The mind blowing part is that a 4dr is only 220lbs heavier than a 2dr. How they add 20" of wheelbase, 2 drs, room for an extra passenger, a much larger top, and massively more cargo space for just 220lbs is crazy. Being that the 4dr is now available with the XR package, the 2dr doesn't even have a breakover angle advantage. Stock for stock the most off road worthy 2dr has 4.10 gears. The 4dr has 4.56. 33's vs 35's. Beefier knuckles. 1.5" more lift and 2.5" more ground clearance. Not to mention better powertrain options. Better brakes. But according to the 2dr guys, none of that matters if you state opinion as fact with no real world experience to back it up.

"Room" doesn't add any weight, it is air, so the "space" for extra passengers or cargo doesn't add anything. Additional material in the length and doors would, but that could be 220 lbs.

Where's the 2.5" more ground clearance come from?

 

[Nash_Dj]

Folks, I keep telling everyone, including my kids who just started driving, it is NOT WHAT YOU DRIVE, IT IS HOW YOU DRIVE IT... !!!
(and I have built a sleeping platform in my JLU)

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