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Who's got the most miles so far?

Stormin’ Moorman

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not necessarily. jeep does some pretty shitty stuff.
the failed fuel pump is an issue. i'm looking for a better aftermarket one.

i spent 4 days in cedar breaks utah waiting while jeep fucked around sending the
wrong fuel pump 3 times. the week in the utah and colorado backcountry was ruined.

Z makes a module that defeats the failed sensor. about $160. installed one, have a second
one, just as a spare, in the box under the drivers seat.

now, i'm looking at a proper class 3 hitch to replace the piece of shit class 2 hitch jeep provided.
i'm starting with a Curt, and adding a 2" torque tube running to the main frame rails.
it'll carry more weight than the jeep can pull, which is about right.

the alternator has sporadic issues of not charging.
replacing with a DC power godzilla alternator that will make 3KW at idle. just haven't changed it out yet. maybe this week.

jeeps dual battery with that little POS primary battery failed. went to dual battery
Oddesy group 25 setup. when that little POS battery goes away on the side of the
road, you will have a fun time even getting to it.

had a rear axle seal fail at 26,000 miles. can't replace seal, have to buy a half shaft.
bought it, and had it installed myself. no way would i trust jeep factory service.

the jeep is ok, i don't regret the purchase. i just wish someone other than FCA built it.

i go solo into places it would be hard to get out of with mechanical failure, so it's important
to me. i carry an iridium pager, but it'd be nice if FCA quit designing topographic floor mats,
and colors of paint best left to a traffic cone, and made their shit reliable.
56K on a 2019. I agree with about everything you said, although I haven't really had any mechanical problems at least partially caused by me. Love my Jeep, wish it was made by someone who cared about quality and customer service. That's the only major thing i would change about it.
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DanW

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not necessarily. jeep does some pretty shitty stuff.
the failed fuel pump is an issue. i'm looking for a better aftermarket one.

i spent 4 days in cedar breaks utah waiting while jeep fucked around sending the
wrong fuel pump 3 times. the week in the utah and colorado backcountry was ruined.

Z makes a module that defeats the failed sensor. about $160. installed one, have a second
one, just as a spare, in the box under the drivers seat.

now, i'm looking at a proper class 3 hitch to replace the piece of shit class 2 hitch jeep provided.
i'm starting with a Curt, and adding a 2" torque tube running to the main frame rails.
it'll carry more weight than the jeep can pull, which is about right.

the alternator has sporadic issues of not charging.
replacing with a DC power godzilla alternator that will make 3KW at idle. just haven't changed it out yet. maybe this week.

jeeps dual battery with that little POS primary battery failed. went to dual battery
Oddesy group 25 setup. when that little POS battery goes away on the side of the
road, you will have a fun time even getting to it.

had a rear axle seal fail at 26,000 miles. can't replace seal, have to buy a half shaft.
bought it, and had it installed myself. no way would i trust jeep factory service.

the jeep is ok, i don't regret the purchase. i just wish someone other than FCA built it.

i go solo into places it would be hard to get out of with mechanical failure, so it's important
to me. i carry an iridium pager, but it'd be nice if FCA quit designing topographic floor mats,
and colors of paint best left to a traffic cone, and made their shit reliable.
Wow, you've had some serious issues w. I wonder if the fuel pump on the PUG Pentastar is different and they kept sending them for the old one. Kinda like some dealerships do oil changes with 6 quarts!

I'm planning on an Odyssey or Northstar battery when my main one fails. Have you found a pure lead AGM that would replace the little battery? If you do let me know. I may at some point replace both as a preventative maintenance move.
 

jeepoch

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56K on a 2019. I agree with about everything you said, although I haven't really had any mechanical problems at least partially caused by me. Love my Jeep, wish it was made by someone who cared about quality and customer service. That's the only major thing i would change about it.
Michael,

Just one not so small but subtle point about Jeep build quality, it's the UAW that builds these things. FCA (or any other North American car manufacturer) spends an amazing amount of effort in designing products to be built with high quality. Jeeps are no different.

Why is it that most vehicles produced (not just Jeep) have amazingly great overall reliabilty, while some way smaller percentage unfortunately do not? Didn't each and every unit go down the exact same assembly line?

Sure, the more expensive the vehicle (in general) the more attention is paid to the finer manufacturing details. However, most auto makers that market different branded vehicles (both economy and luxury versions of the same car), are all built on the exact same assembly line. Same exact underpinnings, just different trim and badging.

So why is it that the vast majority are manufactured with a very low number of issues (near zero) while a much lower percentage of the total units suffer with some higher amount of defects? Same process, same line, same parts from the same suppliers. Each manufacturer does their best to monkey proof just about everything?

Interestingly, the unions are an entirely different organization than that of the manufacturer. Assembly Line personnel are contracted, and work under negotiated 'collective bargaining agreements'. Their objectives have been, and always will be, different than that of the company that they are ultimately being paid by.

The unions primary focus is on the job, not the product. They could care less whether they build a Jeep, Cadillac or Camry. Part of their constant struggle is that the 'Company' never treats them fairly. They are always looking for higher wages, less work hours, more benefits and everything else anyone typically would. However, they are also more in a position to punish the company as a whole due to their collective structure.

Quality is utltimately achieved only when all parties are 'happy'. Unfortunately this 'rarely' happens. Why is it that the old adage is that if you are unlucky enough to purchase a car made on a Monday or Friday you're essentially screwed? Why are subjective motivational attributes a factor at all? Why are union workers so unhappy?

With all things being equal why would the particular day of the week much matter?

Defects are unfortunately now 'factored' into the equation as a matter of ultimate control. If everything was built perfectly (as intended), then there would be zero reason to spend more on the manufacturing process, specifically labor. To improve quality you need to hire more workers thus creating more unionized jobs. If management doesn't, or appears to be insensitive to it, just look and see how bad it can be.

So there is always tension between management and manufacturing. The company's focus is the product, the unions focus is the bureaucracy. The company can't fire individual workers for poor craftsmanship (the unions really take advantage of this) and the unions can't improve their positions unless it's effectively renegotiated.

So there is always got to be some tolerated number of issues that require negotiation. In order for the company to achieve their six sigma quality goals, more and more money has to be constantly increased and reinvested into the manufacturing process (bureaucracy) in order to keep everybody happy. A sort of designed in legalized extortion racket which can't easily be eliminated. That is unless, or until, the company removes the product altogether or moves manufacturing elsewhere. This is exactly what happened to Detroit.

So FCA is not solely to blame for producing the occasional lemon. The process is working exactly as intended. Pain is needed to keep this whole thing spinning. We consumers unfortunately have to bear the brunt of this silly dance.

Blame the people building, not necessarily designing the product. Only if ALL vehicles suffer the exact same issue blame the designers. If the occasional lemon is discovered blame the builders.

Why is it the UAW never gets blamed for anything? Ever?

Jay
 

FulThrotl

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I'm planning on an Odyssey or Northstar battery when my main one fails. Have you found a pure lead AGM that would replace the little battery? If you do let me know. I may at some point replace both as a preventative maintenance move.
i'm an electrical contractor, and do UPS systems, among other things. about the best thing
you will get for a vehicle in AGM is Oddesy. that is all i've used for 10 years.

this is the kit i used. it's excellent. it uses two group 25 batteries. no big/little BS. perfect fit. no wire splicing. each one has about double the cranking ability of the factory big battery. they are yoked together, and if they discharge below a certain point, the are split, so you can restart.

https://www.genesisoffroad.com/jl-dual-battery-kit

i'm also running this alternator. dc power #11584-340-XP.

https://www.dcpowerinc.com/collections/high-output-alternators

it's not in their catalog, but it give you 340 amps, 225 amps at idle.
but it gives you 14.6 volts, which will charge your oddesy's fully. a lot
of alternators won't charge an oddesy fully. the OEM won't fully charge the batteries.

all of this is to support an inverter in the back of the jeep.
i have a 3KW full wave inverter that can tolerate spikes to 6KW.
it'll produce 3KW at idle, while charging the batteries, so you don;'t suck
them dry. i have enough air capacity and electricity to run my plasma
cutter, or wire feed welder. or for that matter when i do lighting certifications,
i can power up a small store's lighting system with it if they don't have utilities turned on yet.

this is the one i use. i've not found anything better..

https://theinverterstore.com/product/3000-watt-industrial-grade-pure-sine-power-inverter/

the pricing on this stuff isn't for the faint of heart.
alternator $750
inverter. $700
batteries $600
battery kit $600

but, when camping, i don't use a propane stove to heat food.
induction cooktop kicks ass in the wind.
 

jeepoch

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Randy,

A+. That's a way cool setup. I'm jealous.

Jay
 

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jeep364

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i'm an electrical contractor, and do UPS systems, among other things. about the best thing
you will get for a vehicle in AGM is Oddesy. that is all i've used for 10 years.

this is the kit i used. it's excellent. it uses two group 25 batteries. no big/little BS. perfect fit. no wire splicing. each one has about double the cranking ability of the factory big battery. they are yoked together, and if they discharge below a certain point, the are split, so you can restart.

https://www.genesisoffroad.com/jl-dual-battery-kit

i'm also running this alternator. dc power #11584-340-XP.

https://www.dcpowerinc.com/collections/high-output-alternators

it's not in their catalog, but it give you 340 amps, 225 amps at idle.
but it gives you 14.6 volts, which will charge your oddesy's fully. a lot
of alternators won't charge an oddesy fully. the OEM won't fully charge the batteries.

all of this is to support an inverter in the back of the jeep.
i have a 3KW full wave inverter that can tolerate spikes to 6KW.
it'll produce 3KW at idle, while charging the batteries, so you don;'t suck
them dry. i have enough air capacity and electricity to run my plasma
cutter, or wire feed welder. or for that matter when i do lighting certifications,
i can power up a small store's lighting system with it if they don't have utilities turned on yet.

this is the one i use. i've not found anything better..

https://theinverterstore.com/product/3000-watt-industrial-grade-pure-sine-power-inverter/

the pricing on this stuff isn't for the faint of heart.
alternator $750
inverter. $700
batteries $600
battery kit $600

but, when camping, i don't use a propane stove to heat food.
induction cooktop kicks ass in the wind.
Do you have a build thread? I've been reading a lot about truck campers but that is many, many years out (retirement level) and am curious on your setup for a jeep/daily.
 

FulThrotl

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Do you have a build thread? I've been reading a lot about truck campers but that is many, many years out (retirement level) and am curious on your setup for a jeep/daily.
no, not really.

i suppose i could put it all in one place.
i still haven't done axles, suspension, or supercharger.
those are probably gonna happen shortly
i've kinda made up my mind on a trailer to pull..
that at this point is gonna be a black series HQ-15.
supposedly a JL isn't big enough to pull it, but that is
silly, if you set it up correctly. the main deal is the hitch
and sway control. i'll put on a magnusen supercharger
most likely.

i'll put something together in the next week or two.
what it was like, what happened, and what it's like now.
 

sf5211

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I know we’re still years away but I’m curious to see the engine life span of the pro ESS people and folks like me that shut it every time.
 

Stormin’ Moorman

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Michael,

Just one not so small but subtle point about Jeep build quality, it's the UAW that builds these things. FCA (or any other North American car manufacturer) spends an amazing amount of effort in designing products to be built with high quality. Jeeps are no different.

Why is it that most vehicles produced (not just Jeep) have amazingly great overall reliabilty, while some way smaller percentage unfortunately do not? Didn't each and every unit go down the exact same assembly line?

Sure, the more expensive the vehicle (in general) the more attention is paid to the finer manufacturing details. However, most auto makers that market different branded vehicles (both economy and luxury versions of the same car), are all built on the exact same assembly line. Same exact underpinnings, just different trim and badging.

So why is it that the vast majority are manufactured with a very low number of issues (near zero) while a much lower percentage of the total units suffer with some higher amount of defects? Same process, same line, same parts from the same suppliers. Each manufacturer does their best to monkey proof just about everything?

Interestingly, the unions are an entirely different organization than that of the manufacturer. Assembly Line personnel are contracted, and work under negotiated 'collective bargaining agreements'. Their objectives have been, and always will be, different than that of the company that they are ultimately being paid by.

The unions primary focus is on the job, not the product. They could care less whether they build a Jeep, Cadillac or Camry. Part of their constant struggle is that the 'Company' never treats them fairly. They are always looking for higher wages, less work hours, more benefits and everything else anyone typically would. However, they are also more in a position to punish the company as a whole due to their collective structure.

Quality is utltimately achieved only when all parties are 'happy'. Unfortunately this 'rarely' happens. Why is it that the old adage is that if you are unlucky enough to purchase a car made on a Monday or Friday you're essentially screwed? Why are subjective motivational attributes a factor at all? Why are union workers so unhappy?

With all things being equal why would the particular day of the week much matter?

Defects are unfortunately now 'factored' into the equation as a matter of ultimate control. If everything was built perfectly (as intended), then there would be zero reason to spend more on the manufacturing process, specifically labor. To improve quality you need to hire more workers thus creating more unionized jobs. If management doesn't, or appears to be insensitive to it, just look and see how bad it can be.

So there is always tension between management and manufacturing. The company's focus is the product, the unions focus is the bureaucracy. The company can't fire individual workers for poor craftsmanship (the unions really take advantage of this) and the unions can't improve their positions unless it's effectively renegotiated.

So there is always got to be some tolerated number of issues that require negotiation. In order for the company to achieve their six sigma quality goals, more and more money has to be constantly increased and reinvested into the manufacturing process (bureaucracy) in order to keep everybody happy. A sort of designed in legalized extortion racket which can't easily be eliminated. That is unless, or until, the company removes the product altogether or moves manufacturing elsewhere. This is exactly what happened to Detroit.

So FCA is not solely to blame for producing the occasional lemon. The process is working exactly as intended. Pain is needed to keep this whole thing spinning. We consumers unfortunately have to bear the brunt of this silly dance.

Blame the people building, not necessarily designing the product. Only if ALL vehicles suffer the exact same issue blame the designers. If the occasional lemon is discovered blame the builders.

Why is it the UAW never gets blamed for anything? Ever?

Jay
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