Who else besides me got eTorque and didn't know what they bought?

[OSCAR II]

BSG (etorque) does not have both an alternator and generator.

It Does have 2. It has a 12v alternator and what FCA is calling a 48v starter/generator. Is the second one a generator or an alternator? Don't know, haven't had one apart or seen the schematic.

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[aldo98229]

According to Green Car:

eTorque works by replacing the conventional alternator with a more robust 48V motor-generator.​

​

The eTorque-equipped V-6 mounts a motor-generator in front of the engine with the pulley pointing aft.​

​

When lifting off the throttle at speed, eTorque’s motor-generator begins to generate electrical energy that feeds back to its battery pack while also smoothing transmission downshifts. It provides a brief torque boost of 90 lb-ft in V-6 applications.​

​

Alternators only draw modest power from an engine’s accessory drive. However, eTorque’s motor-generator uses its accessory drive belt to slow and accelerate the vehicle. ​

 

[michail]

It seems odd it would need an alternator. On the 4xe it's a DC/DC converter fed by the HVB. The HVB also drives the AC compressor. Does the 48V battery do the same?

 

[Pegleg]

To the OP, either V6 has VVT whether its a stick or automatic.

My point was the salesman lead me to believe the upgrade was for VVT not eTorque. That lead me to the bogus assumption the base 3.6 was not VVT.

Just another example of why you really need to do your homework ahead of time and never, never believe the salesman when it come to technical discussions on features.

 

[Headbarcode]

Automatic Stop Start (ASS) is the fuel economy focused feature of not excessively idling at temporary stops during a drive. This is accomplished by 1 of 2 different systems. ESS (Electric Stop Start) and BSG (Belt Start Generator).

ESS equipped vehicles have a 12v main battery and a smaller series 12v auxiliary battery located above and behind the front passenger fender liner. A standard starter motor is used for both cold starts and stop/start events. A standard alternator is used for charging.

BSG equipped vehicles have a 12v main battery and a 48v rechargeable liquid cooled lithium ion battery pack located on the driver side frame rail opposite of the fuel tank. Cold starts are made with a standard starter motor and stop/start events are accomplished by a belt-driven generator that spins the crank via a capacitive dump of electrical energy from the 48v battery pack. This feature helps with prolonging the lifespan of the standard starter motor.

These "mild hybrid" systems have other features. Recharging the 48v battery isn't solely up to the generator, as it also takes advantage of regenerative braking when the brakes are applied. Accelerating anything from a dead stop requires the most energy. To take some of this initial load off of the motor, the generator applies an additional 70lb/ft of torque towards breaking from that dead stop and it stops once the motor spins past 1800 rpm (iirc). Lastly, the generator isn't just capable of speeding up the crank, but it can also serve as an engine brake. This allows for faster and more efficient upshifts and downshifts. The zf 8-speed is an awesome transmission, but it still waits for specific motor rpm ranges before shifting and also uses its own clutch packs to match rpms. The generator helps to take some of this load off, by speeding up or slowing down the motor rpms on demand, which results in quicker shifts and lessened wear of the clutch packs over time.

BSG (etorque) is not at all as "complicated" as many seem to think or occasionally seem to hope. A typical air conditioning system is far more complicated, especially when available with secondary rear ac. I'm also HVAC-R certified, which is why I bring up ac, but never made it into the field before landing my current position.

Cheers all, and happy Father's day to all the dads here!

 

[No IFS]

What would really tell the story and the truth is if we could order the V6 with and without E torque. Then we could compare sales, reliability and gas mileage directly. But they won’t allow that because e torque will not stand on its own merits. Just like we see the black-and-white difference between the 392 and the 4XE. One has huge dealer mark ups the other has huge incentives. that tells you everything if your eyes are open.

 

[No IFS]

Make E Torque optional like leather. See if the sales warrant its existence. If every Rubicon came standard with leather we would have no idea how many people would actually choose leather or cloth . Now we do.

 

[SouthCo]

We own 4 vehicles currently of different makes. I've never seen a manufacturer change powerplant "add-ons" so many times among their motors in only 3 years in my life... I bet the service guys love it!

Love my 2018 non-etorque 3.6 v6 and I knew what I was buying.

 

[aldo98229]

Make E Torque optional like leather. See if the sales warrant its existence. If every Rubicon came standard with leather we would have no idea how many people would actually choose leather or cloth . Now we do.

That won’t work. Everyone knows what leather is; no one knows what eTorque is or does.

Arguably FCA developed eTorque because it believed it offered some benefits. Okay, then let’s hear FCA tell us what they are.

 

[Wbino]

That won’t work. Everyone knows what leather is; no one knows what eTorque is or does.

Arguably FCA developed eTorque because it believed it offered some benefits. Okay, then let’s hear FCA tell us what they are.

Automatic Stop Start (ASS) is the fuel economy focused feature of not excessively idling at temporary stops during a drive. This is accomplished by 1 of 2 different systems. ESS (Electric Stop Start) and BSG (Belt Start Generator).

ESS equipped vehicles have a 12v main battery and a smaller series 12v auxiliary battery located above and behind the front passenger fender liner. A standard starter motor is used for both cold starts and stop/start events. A standard alternator is used for charging.

BSG equipped vehicles have a 12v main battery and a 48v rechargeable liquid cooled lithium ion battery pack located on the driver side frame rail opposite of the fuel tank. Cold starts are made with a standard starter motor and stop/start events are accomplished by a belt-driven generator that spins the crank via a capacitive dump of electrical energy from the 48v battery pack. This feature helps with prolonging the lifespan of the standard starter motor.

These "mild hybrid" systems have other features. Recharging the 48v battery isn't solely up to the generator, as it also takes advantage of regenerative braking when the brakes are applied. Accelerating anything from a dead stop requires the most energy. To take some of this initial load off of the motor, the generator applies an additional 70lb/ft of torque towards breaking from that dead stop and it stops once the motor spins past 1800 rpm (iirc). Lastly, the generator isn't just capable of speeding up the crank, but it can also serve as an engine brake. This allows for faster and more efficient upshifts and downshifts. The zf 8-speed is an awesome transmission, but it still waits for specific motor rpm ranges before shifting and also uses its own clutch packs to match rpms. The generator helps to take some of this load off, by speeding up or slowing down the motor rpms on demand, which results in quicker shifts and lessened wear of the clutch packs over time.

BSG (etorque) is not at all as "complicated" as many seem to think or occasionally seem to hope. A typical air conditioning system is far more complicated, especially when available with secondary rear ac. I'm also HVAC-R certified, which is why I bring up ac, but never made it into the field before landing my current position.

Cheers all, and happy Father's day to all the dads here!

 

[rrubbee]

I think I’ve you seen you post this same comment on every single one of these threads literally every single time someone mentions etorque

Automatic Stop Start (ASS) is the fuel economy focused feature of not excessively idling at temporary stops during a drive. This is accomplished by 1 of 2 different systems. ESS (Electric Stop Start) and BSG (Belt Start Generator).

ESS equipped vehicles have a 12v main battery and a smaller series 12v auxiliary battery located above and behind the front passenger fender liner. A standard starter motor is used for both cold starts and stop/start events. A standard alternator is used for charging.

BSG equipped vehicles have a 12v main battery and a 48v rechargeable liquid cooled lithium ion battery pack located on the driver side frame rail opposite of the fuel tank. Cold starts are made with a standard starter motor and stop/start events are accomplished by a belt-driven generator that spins the crank via a capacitive dump of electrical energy from the 48v battery pack. This feature helps with prolonging the lifespan of the standard starter motor.

These "mild hybrid" systems have other features. Recharging the 48v battery isn't solely up to the generator, as it also takes advantage of regenerative braking when the brakes are applied. Accelerating anything from a dead stop requires the most energy. To take some of this initial load off of the motor, the generator applies an additional 70lb/ft of torque towards breaking from that dead stop and it stops once the motor spins past 1800 rpm (iirc). Lastly, the generator isn't just capable of speeding up the crank, but it can also serve as an engine brake. This allows for faster and more efficient upshifts and downshifts. The zf 8-speed is an awesome transmission, but it still waits for specific motor rpm ranges before shifting and also uses its own clutch packs to match rpms. The generator helps to take some of this load off, by speeding up or slowing down the motor rpms on demand, which results in quicker shifts and lessened wear of the clutch packs over time.

BSG (etorque) is not at all as "complicated" as many seem to think or occasionally seem to hope. A typical air conditioning system is far more complicated, especially when available with secondary rear ac. I'm also HVAC-R certified, which is why I bring up ac, but never made it into the field before landing my current position.

Cheers all, and happy Father's day to all the dads here!

If I coukd I would not have it. oO e

Make E Torque optional like leather. See if the sales warrant its existence. If every Rubicon came standard with leather we would have no idea how many people would actually choose leather or cloth . Now we do.

 

[multicam]

(The following is just my opinion, don’t get all militant or butthurt over it. Anyway it doesn’t matter to me because I have a manual transmission jeep which forced me to get ESS without eTorque)

ESS with the Auxiliary battery sucks but is easily defeated with bypass or dual battery setup. It’s also relatively cheap to fix when it breaks. Probably the best for long-term ownership (talking in the order of decades here).

eTorque appears to be very reliable in the short term and probably mid term too (i.e. first few years of ownership outside of warranty). I’m sure it has its benefits in terms of making ESS easier to live with and improving MPG. That’s all fine and dandy. But I don’t think I’ll want to be dealing with it 19 years from now when that 48V Lithium battery has gone through a million half charge cycles and moved from Alaska to Death Valley to upstate New York and then down to Georgia, and dealt with all the varying weather conditions those places deal with, and then sat in temp storage for a 12 month deployment, rinse and repeat. I’ve replaced 12V batteries and alternators before... never nothing like this.

Also, to the people complaining that FCA hasn’t marketed this well enough- who cares?! You actually trust anything these people say?! Marketers are full of shit. I trust the people in this thread more than any marketing shit FCA is gonna put out.

 

[rrubbee]

Make E Torque optional like leather. See if the sales warrant its existence. If every Rubicon came standard with leather we would have no idea how many people would actually choose leather or cloth . Now we do.

I did not know anything about etorque at the time I was looking for a Rubicon. My personal opinion is that the costs, complications, potential repairs in the future, battery replacement costs outways any benefits. I wanted a Rubicon 2021 and with limited supplies and reliability of the 3.6 there were not many options. I would take the 3.6 without the etorque.

Abe

 

[Recoil]

To the people saying FCA did a shit job marketing it/it should be an option... I'm pretty sure it's the way it is intentionally and that it's more for FCA's benefit then ours. They get to say their fleet gets X miles and has X carbon foot print because of it. If anything, they were kind enough to give us an off button.

But what do i know? I don't work in the industry.

 

[Rogue Toad]

For those who haven't seen it yet, this is a great explanation of what eTorque is, how it works, and what it does. As a former engine design engineer, it's pretty interesting tech IMO.

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