Who else besides me got eTorque and didn't know what they bought?

MattT69

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Simplest way to know would probably to just disconnect a wire here or there and see what happens.*



* Not responsible for warranty voiding, electrocution, garroting, sudden acceleration, sudden deceleration, explosions, regrets, or any and all negative outcomes. Proceed at your own risk. Contact your lawyer and financial advisor. Your mileage may vary. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. Advice has no cash value.
Is this called reverse engineering
I know I've read numerous nightmares about the NON-eTroque‘s tiny secondary battery going bad causing havoc leaving people stranded unexpectedly but has anyone read a single negative topic about the 48v eTorque? Apparently it’s been out since 2018 according to post #148.
Yes the smaller 12v Aux ESS battery seems to be an issue and most people will replace that battery several times along a starter and Alternator given the strain the system puts on all those 12v parts.
IMHO Its Best to have more power than less ... and also a longer (80K) warranty is a nice benefit. After that it's anyone's guess. But like with most old things you might need to get it replaced and then go another 80K miles. They might even be cheaper by then and maybe they get better ... so I can buy two and join the EV club!!!
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Fargo

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Is this called reverse engineering

Yes the smaller 12v Aux ESS battery seems to be an issue and most people will replace that battery several times along a starter and Alternator given the strain the system puts on all those 12v parts.
The small battery does seem to be an issue with ESS, but the Jeep should still function fine without it. You just loose the ESS feture. There are also kits to replace it with a secondary full size battery. Also there are many bypasses and ways to delete the system entirely. No such options with eTorque.,

I wouldn't worry about the alternator and starter. They use a heavier system to handle the extra load. I'd be more concerned about the extra engine wear from all the start/stop events. Here are some comments from an engineer who designed the system:

Oil_Udder said:
Turn off stop start and do not run e85 if you are concerned about engine wear. Eats the engine alive.

Oil_Udder said:
I dealt directly with the data on that. I'll keep my comments to my limited experience but other engines are no different and will follow suit. Noted above was the need for iROX bearing coatings, these were entirely driven by ESS operating issues and VERY high engine wear. They provided a lower coefficient of friction (thus reduced wear) as the crankshaft made contact with the bearings (Fun fact: the front and rear bearings will have the most wear because of the accessory drive loading and trans loading). The problem is simple. A hydrodynamic bearing doesn't touch any other metal, it's just floating on oil. So when you stop the engine its like killing the throttle pulling a skier in a boat. The skier no longer is on top of the water and sinks, scraping the sandbar and wearing the down the ski. The engine is doing the same to itself every time ESS goes off. Crankshaft, cams, timing chains all go to zero velocity and grind against their metal neighbor. E85 is another animal. it basically washes out the oil that is embedded in the cross hatching which is intended to actually hold oil. Also all other peaks and valleys of machined parts (nothing is actually smooth!) like the cams, timing chain etc. When you combined with ESS and E85 you are basically scraping metal on metal for a very high percentage of the engine life vs. a gasoline steady state cycle. It was so high the cylinder bores on our general durability runs with ESS were mirror smooth by the end. Very interesting stuff. I wont run ESS or E85 for the record. lol
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/626-000-mile-pentastar-teardown.329423/
 

Spearmin

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I seriously am noticing something strange with the stop/start feature. I again had the heat on last night with the doors off. When I flip to the Start/Stop display on the dash it says something like "Stop/Start not available heating/cooling enabled". So if I have the heat or AC on Auto Stop/Start doesn't work wtf?
 

Ridgway Jeeper

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When the 12v aux battery fails in the ESS engine does the Jeep continue to run? When an Alternator fails does the Jeep continue to run? Hmmm good questions on which parts are necessary for operation.

I'm no engineer but it would seem like all the parts of a vehicle are necessary for proper operation 🤔
Ummm, YES and YES... When the aux battery starts to go you start getting warning signs, well documented on this forum. Choosing to ignore those signs could leave you stranded.

The Jeep will run with a bad battery, at some point it will fail to start. The Jeep will run on the battery for a short time if the alternator fails. Either repair is pretty inexpensive, many covered under warranty. If parts of the etorque system fail I bet they are vastly more expensive to repair or replace.
 
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Bilal074

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I'm 60 and have always driven 4x4 trucks. Toyota for the last 20 years and Chevys before that. Never considered a Jeep and the Wrangler was an impulse buy. Mostly because my 17 year old daughter convinced us we should get one cause the're cool and will be a lot of fun.

So we were looking at them and I asked the sales guy about the VVT eTorque upgrade and what is was. He said variable value timing. Now I know what that is so I'm thinking to myself I can't believe the base 3.6 doesn't have VVT. I know I want VVT and the 8 speed.

It wasn't until after I got the Wrangler and did some research that I realized what eTorque was. I felt like a noob but I was glad I got it.
Not surprised. I had to explain it to the sales manager and the salesperson they looked at me like I was a wizard. So I don't expect the customer to know what they are buying when the people selling it didn't even know what it was. Even worse the manager came back and confirmed that the 2.0L turbo had it in Canada not knowing what it was when Canada actually did not get that on the 4 only the 6 autos for 2021. so my manual does not have it.
 

Fargo

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... So if I have the heat or AC on Auto Stop/Start doesn't work wtf?
I believe that is correct. Those items draw too much power and they required the ICE (internal combustion engine) to remain running to power them.
 

Rogue Toad

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I seriously am noticing something strange with the stop/start feature. I again had the heat on last night with the doors off. When I flip to the Start/Stop display on the dash it says something like "Stop/Start not available heating/cooling enabled". So if I have the heat or AC on Auto Stop/Start doesn't work wtf?
Yes and no. When the system is "actively" bringing the interior to the desired temperature, the start/stop will be disabled. But once the cabin is at temperature, then start/stop will be re-enabled.

In effect, when it's hot or cold out, you'll find that the start-stop will be deactivated at times and active at other times. The hotter or colder it is, the more it will be deactivated. Essentially it comes down to whether the engine needs to be running at that moment to produce more heat or to have the A/C compressor running.
 

MattT69

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Ummm, YES and YES... When the aux battery starts to go you start getting warning signs, well documented on this forum. Choosing to ignore those signs could leave you stranded.

The Jeep will run with a bad battery, at some point it will fail to start. The Jeep will run on the battery for a short time of the alternator fails. Either repair is pretty inexpensive, many covered under warranty. If parts of the etorque system fail I bet they are vastly more expensive to repair or replace.
You forgot to mention those expensive parts also covered by Warranty and for a much much longer time... Expensive parts don't scare me... I drive a jeep... :) hehe
 

Ridgway Jeeper

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You forgot to mention those expensive parts also covered by Warranty and for a much much longer time... Expensive parts don't scare me... I drive a jeep... :) hehe
Good Luck with your warranty. People toss this out without realizing that it could currently be months to get parts.

Not breaking because it is not there (BSG, liquid cooled battery system) or having simple parts availability (12V batteries very common alternator) non etorque remains a win for me.
 

MattT69

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Good Luck with your warranty. People toss this out without realizing that it could currently be months to get parts.

Not breaking because it is not there (BSG, liquid cooled battery system) or having simple parts availability (12V batteries very common alternator) non etorque remains a win for me.
I should have mentioned that there are no issues to date, and there are no known issues in general. But we all know things bbreak right after the warranty expires, so around 80K I'll start to save $$$ (jeep should be paid-off by then) ... plus I FULLY expect those batteries to be priced ALOT less by then. Maybe I'll get two and get rid of the 12v main battery altogether.

But that's a long time from now so I'll just enjoy the dependability for now 😉
 
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702Rubi

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One trend is parking garages, restaurants, and stores offering free or paid charging. They have some incentive to keep you around a little bit. Plus these days they know those are customers with money. We could see a trend to move away from gas stations. Most charging stations that show up in my area usually belong to apartment complexes that offer it as incentives. It's still crazy to me that I can charge for free at various places. Imagine seeing a free gas pump (and the mayhem it would cause).

Then there is a concept of the smart grid where plugged in vehicles and battery packs could be used to augment the grid when needed. That would require a significant investment on the utilities side and some incentive for the consumer...
That's what I keep thinking: the logical place to put the chargers is any place where people typically visit for awhile (say half an hour or longer). But obviously that requires a lot of chargers and a large grid to support them. And meanwhile, there are people pushing for homes to become self-sufficient and detach from the grid...someone has to pay for upkeep of that big grid.

Oddly, when talking about the net environmental impact of EV's vs ICE's, people seem to overlook all the hazardous, mostly FF-based fluids that are in ICE vehicles. Which have to be changed at intervals, meaning fresh oils, etc have to constantly be produced. And the dirty oils, etc have to be disposed of...
 

702Rubi

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So if I get one of these etorque V6 engines*, I wonder if the BSG can or will seize and then shred the belt, like the alternator in my JKU did? 😝


* I would like to just get a plain V6, but I don't want a manual transmission.
 

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So if I get one of these etorque V6 engines*, I wonder if the BSG can or will seize and then shred the belt, like the alternator in my JKU did? 😝


* I would like to just get a plain V6, but I don't want a manual transmission.
So you'd prefer the component that has actually failed you, as opposed to the one that might?
 

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I just picked up a 2019 Rubicon, and I noticed it came with etorque, I have no idea how it’s different from the standard 2.0 L four-cylinder turbo??
 
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