When People's Republic of China resumes shipping to the Land of the Free then maybe your Jeep will c

Sean K.

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BTW, a mod should probably move this to the other forum (I think there's a politics one here).



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Avar928

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Some practical advice about this that you as a consumer and patient can employ to take charge - when you go to the doctor, have a routine exam, get checked for sickness, etc... have your physician, nurse, etc... go over and explain to you what tests they are ordering, why, and if you really need it. Ask them to be honest and forthright with you as a consumer and that you want to do your part in making sure that while you get what you need you are also not taxing the system with excessive costs...even if insurance covers it.

I've worked in healthcare for 6 years and you will be shocked, or not surprised, how much excess there is, how much sales reps have knowledge AND control over what testing is done to you, and how many games are played by insurance companies and providers despite it being fundamentally illegal but there are loop holes.

Question any type of "panel work" because I can guarantee you that one panel test on your requisition is actually a dozen or more singular tests that all costs hundreds of dollars each. It's a fine balance of ruling out causes and making informed, directed testing and taking out excess.
 

Avar928

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Also look for low cost alternatives in your area for imaging procedures. Again, even if insurance covers it, costs can range drastically for the same exact procedure. For example, look at prices of an MRI in your area. Of course this can range itself based on what body part, prep, etc...but even apples to apples this can cost several hundred to over $10,000 based on who's billing.
 

Gee-pah

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Exactly so.
The problem with healthcare and medicine costs in the US exist for the simple reason that it is allowed to exist.
The basic principle of capitalism is that the market will control the price of goods and services based on what the market will bear.
Is that baseball cap too at 30 bucks too expensive? As a result, folks don't buy it.
It is not a perfect system, but it generally works well enough and no one has invented anything better.

However, this does not work with with medical care. With medical it quickly goes from "what the market will bear" to extortion. If you have to chose between death and paying 15k a month of the pills you need to keep you alive, that is not really a choice. You have to pay, or what is more likely the case go into debt.
Last year my own father was faced with a similar choice. Pay over 150k for a caner treatment, which the insurance company decided they would not pay as it was not a better than 50% chance of success or death. My father had decided for death because he did not want to use up to much of their savings and make things harder on my mother.
In the end, we ended up fly him to India where we got the treatment, including the flight and hotel for my mother for about 12k. Unfortunately, the cancer spread too much in the meantime and he did not make it.
It really chaps my ass that in the most productive, successful and richest country the world has ever produced, Americans are faced with these decisions every day.
I agree and am sorry for your loss.
 

sudeepi

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I try to buy American made when I can. All companies on the internet should be required BY LAW to list country of manufacture - “made in” - in the product listing so we can all see that.

anyway, hate to say it but...... if even half the stuff that is made off-shore was instead made here, we would not have the workforce to do it. We don’t have the bodies. And, a number of the bodies we do have would feel that a factory job was “Below them”...... yep, I was just told that by a long-term unemployed college grad....... and then there are the addicts and other grifters..... they wouldn’t take the job either.....
I am only 5 years here in the US, been thinking ever since Prez wants to build wall. Instead, how about like this:
Invest in manufacturing in MX - that will create more job opportunities for those people, where the labor costs are relatively less expensive than US and available workforce. That can improve overall living standards in that country and the youth may choose to work rather than migrate / indulge in illegal ways of making money. And that will reduce the dependency on just one country to supply goods to US. Two birds one bullet.
 

Sean K.

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Also look for low cost alternatives in your area for imaging procedures. Again, even if insurance covers it, costs can range drastically for the same exact procedure. For example, look at prices of an MRI in your area. Of course this can range itself based on what body part, prep, etc...but even apples to apples this can cost several hundred to over $10,000 based on who's billing.
All due to CoNs. Certificates of Need.
 

sudeepi

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My brother, I hear you loud and clear. it’s rare that I find someone with the same belief about the health care market. The typical supply and demand curve won’t work in health care , sick people do not seek out the best deal like you do when buying new tires. They seek out immediate life saving health.

I like to add that the patient is not the customer. The insurance company is the customer. They pay the bill a lot of the time. People with insurance can’t even tell you what a procedure cost. All they know is what their copay or deductible is. How can a market work when you don’t even know what you pay for a procedure . There is no way to control cost in the American healthcare system. It will continue to rise. A single payer system is the best chance we have to control cost. healthcare in American will inevitably collapse at some point because of greed and the unrealistic way we allow it to operate..
Completely agree. It's completely different in UK. I think a balance between both systems is what is needed to the society. Yeah, I don't know what the cost of a procedure. I just flash my card, pay that co-pay and bear that deductible, that's all. My insurance limits my drugs cost to $10 a month for generic, $15 a month for branded. But does that $10 drug really worth $10? For example, Salbutamol is a prescribed drug here, it costed me about $90 for a 30-day supply. Whereas in India, it costs 2 cents if we buy retail and bulk may be even cheaper and don't need a prescription. My son was asthmatic when he was young and doctor advised us to use it whenever he has shortness of breath. That avoided my visit to doctor, get a prescription and buy. Here, it's not possible. Who is controlling it?
 

Avar928

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All due to CoNs. Certificates of Need.
Monopolies veiled by the standard of safety. Same with drug companies. I know the costs to bring a drug to market are huge but the domino effect of investors to keep prices inflated is ridiculous.
 

Sean K.

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Monopolies veiled by the standard of safety. Same with drug companies. I know the costs to bring a drug to market are huge but the domino effect of investors to keep prices inflated is ridiculous.
Agreed and b/c of protectionist laws and loopholes, the US pays the vast majority of R&D for new drugs. Our government is pandering to the medical industry which is helping to drive costs.
 

Big Blue

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I try to buy American made when I can. All companies on the internet should be required BY LAW to list country of manufacture - “made in” - in the product listing so we can all see that.

anyway, hate to say it but...... if even half the stuff that is made off-shore was instead made here, we would not have the workforce to do it. We don’t have the bodies. And, a number of the bodies we do have would feel that a factory job was “Below them”...... yep, I was just told that by a long-term unemployed college grad....... and then there are the addicts and other grifters..... they wouldn’t take the job either.....
Another point to be made in the Made in the USA thing ...... What percentage of parts in our Made in the USA Jeeps or Harley Davidsons are made some in another country . Jeep engines made in Italy etc . And since Jeep is now owned by Fiat ......
 

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Another point to be made in the Made in the USA thing ...... What percentage of parts in our Made in the USA Jeeps or Harley Davidsons are made some in another country . Jeep engines made in Italy etc . And since Jeep is now owned by Fiat ......
True.

‘but, there are “rules” in place in federal law, we can quibble about what “made in America” means but, I think that we can agree that a whole bunch more “value is added” here than a product that says “made in China”
 

nerubi

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Wondering if any of you have a degree in Economics specializing in Healthcare? I do. Our system is not perfect but partly because of all of us. I want everything, I want it now, I don't care how much it costs if it extends my life another month. Socialized medicine in other countries isn't great either. In Canada each province gets an annual health budget. If they hit their limit early then most non-emergency procedures wait. And in Canada many cross the border to the US for care. And isn't single payer a form of socialism? But here we want an MRI on every street corner. We want the doctor to give us an anti-biotic even if we have a viral infection. We want there to be an extra 1,000,000 ventilators in case a pandemic comes along plus a lot more ICU rooms sitting empty until they are needed once every 20 to 50 years.
And no taxes except a national sales tax? The states wouldn't like that. Again it is the people that are the problem. We couldn't get an agreement on what color our flag should be let alone complex, little understood issues like healthcare, taxation, manufacturing among many others. The education system here has failed. The US used to have the smartest students in the world now we are lucky if we are in the top 30. Universities have become propaganda machines for the left. Skilled jobs can not be filled because there are not enough applicants that can pass a basic aptitude test and/or drug test. I also have an MBA specializing in IT. I hired for positions at a couple of large companies for one of the most technical and highly paid positions in IT but we couldn't get enough qualified people. We had to hire contract staff to fill positions and most of them were from China and India.
So it is easy to pontificate positions but pretty much impossible to make change. Even if I was the only person on earth I'm not sure there would be unanimous agreement on anything.
 

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Wondering if any of you have a degree in Economics specializing in Healthcare? I do. Our system is not perfect but partly because of all of us. I want everything, I want it now, I don't care how much it costs if it extends my life another month. Socialized medicine in other countries isn't great either. In Canada each province gets an annual health budget. If they hit their limit early then most non-emergency procedures wait. And in Canada many cross the border to the US for care. And isn't single payer a form of socialism? But here we want an MRI on every street corner. We want the doctor to give us an anti-biotic even if we have a viral infection. We want there to be an extra 1,000,000 ventilators in case a pandemic comes along plus a lot more ICU rooms sitting empty until they are needed once every 20 to 50 years.
And no taxes except a national sales tax? The states wouldn't like that. Again it is the people that are the problem. We couldn't get an agreement on what color our flag should be let alone complex, little understood issues like healthcare, taxation, manufacturing among many others. The education system here has failed. The US used to have the smartest students in the world now we are lucky if we are in the top 30. Universities have become propaganda machines for the left. Skilled jobs can not be filled because there are not enough applicants that can pass a basic aptitude test and/or drug test. I also have an MBA specializing in IT. I hired for positions at a couple of large companies for one of the most technical and highly paid positions in IT but we couldn't get enough qualified people. We had to hire contract staff to fill positions and most of them were from China and India.
So it is easy to pontificate positions but pretty much impossible to make change. Even if I was the only person on earth I'm not sure there would be unanimous agreement on anything.
u f'n nailed it bro!
 

                           
























































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