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What's the point of the 2.0t?

OnlyOne

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Um no, sorry but just no. Octane is not going to boost your HP and even if it did it would not add 20 HP.
Um sorry yes. That’s exactly what octane does. It allows the computer more timing and boost resulting in more horsepower. Understand we are talking about boosted applications.
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$uicide$hift

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Um sorry yes. That’s exactly what octane does. It allows the computer more timing and boost resulting in more horsepower.
No it does not. If you modify an engine designed to run on 87 octane but increasing the compression ratio for example it would require higher octane fuel to reduce knock and ping. The actual fuel is not increasing the HP.

If an engine is designed to run on 87 octane and you put 107 octane fuel in the system you are not going to gain HP. Show me some proof of this other than your bum dyno please.
 

Matthew/E36

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Yes. My understanding is that it's the same gasoline in 87 and 93. The 93 tank simply has a small amount of additive that modifies the burn properties. Those are the fuels delivered to most stations with 91 being produced at the pump by blending 87 and 93.
I'm not sure that it's always a blend, but I've been to a lot of stations that have 91 and no 93.

Also, there's a statement that "Top Tier" gas is better...either way, looking at this list I can't see anyplace around me or where I get gas that is NOT on the list.

I have no dog in this thing, just interesting to follow the gas talk.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-maintenance/study-shows-top-tier-gasoline-worth-extra-price/
 

Matthew/E36

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Um sorry yes. That’s exactly what octane does. It allows the computer more timing and boost resulting in more horsepower. Understand we are talking about boosted applications.
Definitely. How are people thinking it would it not produce more horespower??? People dyno run that sort of thing all the time, don't they?

Even if people chip their turbo wrangler, it will be slower than most of the cars on the road. So I'm not sure what the point is, unless the 10-20% more power is that useful offroad? I'm asking because I figured there's a lot more mods useful for offroading before power.
 

OnlyOne

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No it does not. If you modify an engine designed to run on 87 octane but increasing the compression ratio for example it would require higher octane fuel to reduce knock and ping. The actual fuel is not increasing the HP.

If an engine is designed to run on 87 octane and you put 107 octane fuel in the system you are not going to gain HP. Show me some proof of this other than your bum dyno please.
Ok. In a boosted application. Your computer can add more timing when is sees no knock from the sensors. In turn adding horsepower. I understand where you’re coming from. Octane in of itself doesn’t add horsepower. The timing that is advanced and the boost adds the horsepower.

It’s the exact reason I have a 87,89,91,and 93 octane tunes for my Ecoboost Lincoln.
 

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Matthew/E36

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No it does not. If you modify an engine designed to run on 87 octane but increasing the compression ratio for example it would require higher octane fuel to reduce knock and ping. The actual fuel is not increasing the HP.

If an engine is designed to run on 87 octane and you put 107 octane fuel in the system you are not going to gain HP. Show me some proof of this other than your bum dyno please.
Most engines are not locked to a single octane, but they do have a min. The ECU compensates for the increase. At least I thought that's how it works so maybe the pentastar is really different than other engines?
 

$uicide$hift

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Ok. In a boosted application. Your computer can add more timing when is sees no knock from the sensors. In turn adding horsepower. I understand where you’re coming from. Octane in of itself doesn’t add horsepower. The timing that is advanced and the boost adds the horsepower.

It’s the exact reason I have a 87,89,91,and 93 octane tunes for my Ecoboost Lincoln.
You are missing the point. The octane is not increasing your HP. The modifications to the engine are increasing the HP. When you have a higher compression ratio for example you need to run a fuel that is refined more to prevent knock and ping. The actual octane rating is not increasing the HP, the performance modifications to the motor is giving the HP increase and thus requiring a higher octane fuel.
 

OnlyOne

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Most engines are not locked to a single octane, but they do have a min. The ECU compensates for the increase. At least I thought that's how it works so maybe the pentastar is really different than other engines?
The pentastar doesn’t have that kind of ability to change due to being naturally asperated.
 

OnlyOne

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You are missing the point. The octane is not increasing your HP. The modifications to the engine are increasing the HP. When you have a higher compression ratio for example you need to run a fuel that is refined more to prevent knock and ping. The actual octane rating is not increasing the HP, the performance modifications to the motor is giving the HP increase and thus requiring a higher octane fuel.
I just said that. You’re missing the point. Reread my post.
 

$uicide$hift

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I just said that. You’re missing the point. Reread my post.
OK I think you have it right in your head but when you post:

My Lincoln stock adds 20 HP with 91 over 87 octane
It reads that increasing your octane gives you more HP. People that do not have much knowledge in this area would read your post thinking that octane = HP.

So you agree simply putting in a higher octane fuel does not in fact increase HP. It is the other performance modifications that are done to a motor that require you to run a higher octane fuel to prevent knock, ping, detonation.
 

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OnlyOne

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OK I think you have it right in your head but when you post:



It reads that increasing your octane gives you more HP. People that do not have much knowledge in this area would read your post thinking that octane = HP.

So you agree simply putting in a higher octane fuel does not in fact increase HP. It is the other performance modifications that are done to a motor that require you to run a higher octane fuel to prevent knock, ping, detonation.
Yes. I understand that it could be misconstrued in a forum. So yes we agree. My initial post about the Lincoln means Ford built this feature in so you could take a little HP and spend less money on gas at the pump also you might not be able to find the correct octane. I think we are on the same page. Good clarification.

But in a sense octane does equal HP because without higher octane or something like methanol injection for boosted applications or nitrous you can’t really add HP safely.

You are correct, octane will not add horsepower but it allows your engine to.
 

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If turbo engines are so easy to tune for more power/torque, why don't the manufacturers do this from the factory?

What do you lose in terms of reliability and longevity by doing this?
 

OnlyOne

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If turbo engines are so easy to tune for more power/torque, why don't the manufacturers do this from the factory?

What do you lose in terms of reliability and longevity by doing this?
Most of the time it’s not the motor that can’t handle it, it’s the running gear. If you are using a good tuner they can make all kinds of adjustments. My Lincoln for example can be run up to 600 ftlbs of torque to the wheels but it’s set at about 500 because the PTU (AWD) can’t handle it.
 

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If turbo engines are so easy to tune for more power/torque, why don't the manufacturers do this from the factory?

What do you lose in terms of reliability and longevity by doing this?
Any oem manufacturer who builds a turbo engine correctly can have their motors in the 400 hp range easily with let's say a 2.5L 4 cylinder engine. They don't because of cost and protecting other cars in their lineup. Japan manufactures use to have a gentlemen's agreement to cap hp at 280hp, so that they wouldn't compete against each other with a numbers game. Here in the US manufacturers rather sell you the least amount of hp that makes sense. Now it's about emissions restrictions for many of them, so that's why you see many more cars with turbos. Turbo engines allow smaller displacement engines with the same hp and more tq with better mpg. It's a win win for all tbh. For the JL 2.0t we would get about 215 hp to the wheels and with a simple tune we could easily get 300hp to the wheels on 91. OEM manufacturers are very conservative with their tunes due to reliability and fuel economy.
 

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I'm not sure that it's always a blend, but I've been to a lot of stations that have 91 and no 93.

Also, there's a statement that "Top Tier" gas is better...either way, looking at this list I can't see anyplace around me or where I get gas that is NOT on the list.

I have no dog in this thing, just interesting to follow the gas talk.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-maintenance/study-shows-top-tier-gasoline-worth-extra-price/
You're right - 87, 91 and 93 are delivered as is - it's 89 that's the at-pump blend.
 
 



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