What's the point of the 2.0t?

on--belay

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So yes, your local dealer may be fine doing warranty service on a car with a tune. But telling people that a dealer has to prove your tune caused the failure in order to deny service simply isn't true. You'll find plenty of people who had coverage denied the moment the tune was found. Whether you want to pursue things legally at that point is up to you.
Thank you, just thank you. Dealerships will prioritize modifications, just as common sense would dictate. Is one likely to have problems from a dealer with larger tires as the mod, or no honk on door lock, absolutely not. Do they qualify ECM tunes VERY differently, in most cases, absolutely yes, and when one goes to arbitration and there is limited knowledge of the ICE on the part of the arbiter, the dealer needs to do very little to put the entire burden of proof on the modifier of the vehicle. That individual just decided not to pursue it farther, making your point. Some people have zero problems with tunes, but one can't make blanket statements, and the simple fact is dealers routinely deny warranty claims based on ECM tunes. Has nothing to do with being scurred (sic), just making informed decisions. I've openly said I have an ECM tune, and I have it on half of my current vehicles, so I'm not against it, I'm just against disseminating opinion as fact when Wrangler fans are indeed not well versed in turbo ECM tunes.





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Raskass77

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It has almost become status quo at this point for manufacturers to take an existing V6 or V8 vehicle and start offering a motor with two fewer cylinders offset by the addition of a turbo, which almost always generates substantially more torque at low RPM than the naturally aspirated motor they replaced, and often provides better fuel economy as well.

So I had high hopes for the 2.0t in the Wrangler, expecting it would offer similar benefits over the Pentastar V6.

However the reviews are in, and so far every review I've watched or read indicates the 2.0t provides less torque at low RPM than the Pentastar, or similar at best. I've seen some people write this off as "oh well it's a small displacement turbo engine, what did you expect?"... but that was par for the course 10-20 years ago. Modern turbo engines generally don't have turbo lag, and don't have to wait to spool up. And to add to that, the Wrangler 2.0t has the added benefit of a 48 volt BSG system, which would only help off idle torque that much more. Most other modern turbo powertrains on the market aren't using a BSG system yet.

So what's left? Why does the 2.0t exist? The articles I've read, including the one on the front page of this site (which I've been reading for a long time, but just now decided to register to comment), point to its expected improved fuel economy.

So you have 18/23 from the 3.6 V6 using 87 octane, right? Average the two and you get 20.5 mpg
Then you have 21/24 from the 2.0t I4 using 91+ octane. Averages out to 22.5 mpg.

Here in Memphis, looking at Gas Buddy, the best price today is $2.04 for regular, and $2.43 for premium (at Costco).

Let's say you put 20 gallons in your Wrangler's tank. That's going to cost you $40.80 for the V6, and $48.60 for the I4.
With 50/50 mixed driving, you'll get 410 miles of range in the V6 and 450 miles of range in the I4.

So in the V6 you're getting 10.05 miles per dollar.
In the I4 you're getting 9.26 miles per dollar.

So there goes the fuel economy benefit. The I4 actually has a higher fuel cost, unless people find you're able to run 87 octane in it without hurting the fuel economy much... but you're definitely going to lose some power if you do that.

Even if you drive entirely in the city, where the MPG difference is more in favor of the turbo 4, it still costs more to run the turbo.
V6 = 8.82 miles per dollar in the city
I4 = 8.64 miles per dollar in the city


I'm really struggling here. What's left. Why did they bother to put the turbo 4 in the Wrangler? Refinement? According to the reviews (and common sense based on most other small turbo motors out now), the I4 is less refined with the exception of the start/stop system, which being BSG, works more seamlessly than the ESS in the V6.

Uh... maybe reliability? Well, I don't think anyone has any data on this new turbo 4, but historically small high strung turbocharged motors aren't renowned for running hundreds of thousands of miles without issue. Add to that the complexity of BSG system (more stuff to break) and the pretty decent reputation of the Pentastar, and while we can't be sure, my money is not on the 2.0T outlasting the 3.6 on average.

The one thing I can think of that will probably be better in the 2.0t is modding. I suspect like many factory turbo motors, you'll probably be able to spend a few hundred bucks on a tune and you'll be making quite a bit more power than from the factory. Though at what risk to reliability and warranty remains to be seen.

Anyway... I'm not trying to be a pessimist here. I'm just honestly asking, what reason is there to opt for the 2.0t? Do you think Chrysler had higher hopes for its fuel economy or power and it just didn't pan out?


The all-new 2.0-liter turbocharged inline four-cylinder engine with
eTorque technology is rated a best-in-class 270 horsepower and 295
lb.-ft. of torque and mated to a new eight-speed automatic transmission.
The 2.0-liter turbocharged inline four-cylinder engine?s torque output
surpasses that of the V-6 engine offered in Wrangler. An all-new eTorque
system improves fuel economy, launch performance and driver comfort
during start/stop operations.

The eTorque system?s hybrid functions include auto stop/start, electric
power assist, extended fuel shut-off, transmission shift management,
intelligent battery charging and regenerative braking. Both the engine
and fuel flow may be turned off during stops, coasting or when the
engine is decelerating.

The all-new 2.0-liter I-4 engine features a twin-scroll, low-inertia
turbocharger with an electronically actuated waste gate for exceptional
responsiveness and performance, even while traversing over difficult
terrain. The turbo is mounted directly to the cylinder head to improve
durability. A dedicated cooling circuit lowers the temperature of the
intake air, throttle body and turbocharger.

The 2.0-liter turbocharged I-4 engine is part of the Global Medium
Engine architecture family and features Double Over Head Camshafts
(DOHC), dual independent camshaft timing and a cooled exhaust gas
recirculation (C-EGR) system. This is the first time that the combined
use of a twin-scroll turbocharger, C-EGR system, Central Direct
Injection and the independent liquid cooling intake of air, throttle
body and turbo have been employed together. This combination of
technologies enables the high levels of performance and reduces fuel
consumption.

Direct injection, coupled with turbocharging, enables more efficient
combustion and increased performance. The 2.0-liter I-4 engine?s fuel
pump supplies the engine?s 2,900-psi high-pressure common-rail injection
system. These high pressures produce better fuel atomization and allow
for more precise fuel delivery than port fuel-injected systems, which in
turn improves both performance and efficiency.

A variable displacement two-stage oil pump provides high oil pressure
under high speed and load, but switches to a low-pressure mode for
improved fuel economy during typical driving conditions. The piston
cooling jet operation is managed by the two-stage oil pump to enhance
fuel economy under normal driving conditions while improving durability
under demanding, high-load engine operation. A large capacity oil cooler
extends the oil change interval and ensures engine durability.

The cast aluminum alloy cylinder head features a central injector and
high tumble intake ports. This combination provides increased charge
motion and balanced airflow for improved fuel efficiency and
performance. Cast-aluminum pistons with a 10:1 compression ratio have
four valve pockets to accommodate the dual Variable Valve Timing (VVT)
system. Each cylinder bore is fitted with gallery-mounted piston oil
squirters to limit piston temperatures, reduce spark knock and increase
piston durability.

The 2.0-liter I-4 engine features a low-pressure, sand cast-aluminum
block with cast-in iron liners. The bore diameter is 84 mm and the
stroke is 90 mm. Total displacement is 1,995 cc.

A water-cooled, integrated exhaust manifold helps reduce turbo inlet
temperatures while providing increased engine reliability.

An inverted tooth primary chain drives both the intake and exhaust
camshafts and minimizes noise. Camshafts are robotically assembled using
hollow shafts and have polished cam journals to reduce weight and
improve durability for start-stop engine operation. The use of hollow
shafts provides a 3.5 lbs. weight reduction when compared to an
equivalent solid shaft.

Select-fit main and rod bearings enable reduced clearances to help lower
system oil demand and oil pumping effort. In addition, floating piston
pins utilize Diamond Like Coating (DLC) for reduced friction.

The ignition system includes a high-energy ignition coil for better fuel
efficiency and precious-metal spark plugs with iridium and platinum
provide lasting durability. Located in the center of the cam cover, the
spark plugs are easily accessible when service is required.
Sodium-filled exhaust valves and plasma-coated piston rings also help
extend the engine?s life and bolster durability.
 

Karl_in_Chicago

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The all-new 2.0-liter turbocharged inline four-cylinder engine with
eTorque technology is rated a best-in-class 270 horsepower and 295
lb.-ft. of torque and mated to a new eight-speed automatic transmission.
The 2.0-liter turbocharged inline four-cylinder engine?s torque output
surpasses that of the V-6 engine offered in Wrangler. An all-new eTorque
system improves fuel economy, launch performance and driver comfort
during start/stop operations.

The eTorque system?s hybrid functions include auto stop/start, electric
power assist, extended fuel shut-off, transmission shift management,
intelligent battery charging and regenerative braking. Both the engine
and fuel flow may be turned off during stops, coasting or when the
engine is decelerating.

The all-new 2.0-liter I-4 engine features a twin-scroll, low-inertia
turbocharger with an electronically actuated waste gate for exceptional
responsiveness and performance, even while traversing over difficult
terrain. The turbo is mounted directly to the cylinder head to improve
durability. A dedicated cooling circuit lowers the temperature of the
intake air, throttle body and turbocharger.

The 2.0-liter turbocharged I-4 engine is part of the Global Medium
Engine architecture family and features Double Over Head Camshafts
(DOHC), dual independent camshaft timing and a cooled exhaust gas
recirculation (C-EGR) system. This is the first time that the combined
use of a twin-scroll turbocharger, C-EGR system, Central Direct
Injection and the independent liquid cooling intake of air, throttle
body and turbo have been employed together. This combination of
technologies enables the high levels of performance and reduces fuel
consumption.

Direct injection, coupled with turbocharging, enables more efficient
combustion and increased performance. The 2.0-liter I-4 engine?s fuel
pump supplies the engine?s 2,900-psi high-pressure common-rail injection
system. These high pressures produce better fuel atomization and allow
for more precise fuel delivery than port fuel-injected systems, which in
turn improves both performance and efficiency.

A variable displacement two-stage oil pump provides high oil pressure
under high speed and load, but switches to a low-pressure mode for
improved fuel economy during typical driving conditions. The piston
cooling jet operation is managed by the two-stage oil pump to enhance
fuel economy under normal driving conditions while improving durability
under demanding, high-load engine operation. A large capacity oil cooler
extends the oil change interval and ensures engine durability.

The cast aluminum alloy cylinder head features a central injector and
high tumble intake ports. This combination provides increased charge
motion and balanced airflow for improved fuel efficiency and
performance. Cast-aluminum pistons with a 10:1 compression ratio have
four valve pockets to accommodate the dual Variable Valve Timing (VVT)
system. Each cylinder bore is fitted with gallery-mounted piston oil
squirters to limit piston temperatures, reduce spark knock and increase
piston durability.

The 2.0-liter I-4 engine features a low-pressure, sand cast-aluminum
block with cast-in iron liners. The bore diameter is 84 mm and the
stroke is 90 mm. Total displacement is 1,995 cc.

A water-cooled, integrated exhaust manifold helps reduce turbo inlet
temperatures while providing increased engine reliability.

An inverted tooth primary chain drives both the intake and exhaust
camshafts and minimizes noise. Camshafts are robotically assembled using
hollow shafts and have polished cam journals to reduce weight and
improve durability for start-stop engine operation. The use of hollow
shafts provides a 3.5 lbs. weight reduction when compared to an
equivalent solid shaft.

Select-fit main and rod bearings enable reduced clearances to help lower
system oil demand and oil pumping effort. In addition, floating piston
pins utilize Diamond Like Coating (DLC) for reduced friction.

The ignition system includes a high-energy ignition coil for better fuel
efficiency and precious-metal spark plugs with iridium and platinum
provide lasting durability. Located in the center of the cam cover, the
spark plugs are easily accessible when service is required.
Sodium-filled exhaust valves and plasma-coated piston rings also help
extend the engine?s life and bolster durability.
No attribution? Cold.
 

thenewrick

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Emissions mostly and mpg. It's not a matter of consumer preferences, it's govt mandates.

They could just put V8's in everything and buy Tesla's EV credits :)
 

BaldEagle

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That’s the perfect example of the extra considerations that the mainstream turbo owner will not worry about. Will every DIY’er change their oil with Mobil 1, or will they use a no name Walmart sourced brand in the name of saving money? Will they even change it at 5k miles or let it go to 10k and beyond?

I surfed to research the overall durability of today’s modern turbocharged engines. There isn’t much data out there, considering the fairly recent change to many turbocharged engines to meet CAFE requirements; resulting in basically every car manufacturer now offering a turbocharged model.

As has been expressed on this thread and others; the Wrangler, with its brick wall architecture, will have to keep the 2.0 on boost a lot to overcome this poor aerodynamic deficiency. This constant on boost will stress out the engine considerably more than if it could comfortably cruise along without the turbocharger being required.

As I stated in another rant somewhere on this forum; I’ll let you turbo loving people be the sacrificial pigs and try out this new BSG 2.0 turbo. Hopefully, for your sake, you have many miles and years to prove out this technology. Good luck.
So if you were buying a 2018 Rubicon would you get the 2.0 or v6
 

BaldEagle

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Thanks for posting those torque curves, Ape.

2000 rpms isn't far off idle, to me, with a manual. I'll run around in my JK today and try to time it to 2000 rpms in 1st gear. It doesn't take long. The Pentastar is just under 200lbs at only 1400 rpms, which is probably less than a second or so away from clutch engagement. Maybe I should have said right off throttle tip-in, instead of off idle. You are above idle by the time the wheels start to turn. That's all splitting hairs, though.

In terms of driveability, and I've driven it on the street, in the mud, and rock crawling, the Pentastar feels strong. Certainly stronger than the 3.8, with which I've got 120k miles experience, and which beats the Pentastar up to about 1200 rpms, which is where their curves meet.

Btw, talking torque, I've stalled off road more often with the old inline 4.0 Jeep than with my 3.8 (which has happened exactly once in 10 years, due totalliy to driver error), pulling a heavier Jeep, but I hear all the pining out there for the great torque of that 4.0. Funny. Gearing has MUCH to do with it, and the JL Rubicon will have better gearing, along with the benefits of the updated Pentastar's torque curve. The torque at the rear wheels should be night and day better, on the street and on the trail.
So which engine do you recommend v6 vs 2.0 turbo in 2018 Jl Rubicon
 

DanW

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So which engine do you recommend v6 vs 2.0 turbo in 2018 Jl Rubicon
I bought the V6. I don't know enough about the turbo. Also, a manual transmission was a priority, and that only comes on the V6. I have a little over 2,000 miles on it now and I'm VERY happy with the decision. It is a proven, reliable, powerful V6 that is just a blast to drive with the new manual. The gearing is perfectly matched.

That's not to put down the turbo. It could be fantastic. Too bad it doesn't come with a manual, too.
 

thenewrick

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It’s a real shame they aren’t pairing the enthusiast engines with the manual for sure. A 300hp/350tq 2-door Wrangler Sahara with the anti spin differential would be a hoot.
 

Rubi

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So if you were buying a 2018 Rubicon would you get the 2.0 or v6
V6, I want a manual as well. I’m waiting on the 2 door production to officially begin before I place my Rubicon order.
 
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It has almost become status quo at this point for manufacturers to take an existing V6 or V8 vehicle and start offering a motor with two fewer cylinders offset by the addition of a turbo, which almost always generates substantially more torque at low RPM than the naturally aspirated motor they replaced, and often provides better fuel economy as well.

So I had high hopes for the 2.0t in the Wrangler, expecting it would offer similar benefits over the Pentastar V6.

However the reviews are in, and so far every review I've watched or read indicates the 2.0t provides less torque at low RPM than the Pentastar, or similar at best. I've seen some people write this off as "oh well it's a small displacement turbo engine, what did you expect?"... but that was par for the course 10-20 years ago. Modern turbo engines generally don't have turbo lag, and don't have to wait to spool up. And to add to that, the Wrangler 2.0t has the added benefit of a 48 volt BSG system, which would only help off idle torque that much more. Most other modern turbo powertrains on the market aren't using a BSG system yet.

So what's left? Why does the 2.0t exist? The articles I've read, including the one on the front page of this site (which I've been reading for a long time, but just now decided to register to comment), point to its expected improved fuel economy.

So you have 18/23 from the 3.6 V6 using 87 octane, right? Average the two and you get 20.5 mpg
Then you have 21/24 from the 2.0t I4 using 91+ octane. Averages out to 22.5 mpg.

Here in Memphis, looking at Gas Buddy, the best price today is $2.04 for regular, and $2.43 for premium (at Costco).

Let's say you put 20 gallons in your Wrangler's tank. That's going to cost you $40.80 for the V6, and $48.60 for the I4.
With 50/50 mixed driving, you'll get 410 miles of range in the V6 and 450 miles of range in the I4.

So in the V6 you're getting 10.05 miles per dollar.
In the I4 you're getting 9.26 miles per dollar.

So there goes the fuel economy benefit. The I4 actually has a higher fuel cost, unless people find you're able to run 87 octane in it without hurting the fuel economy much... but you're definitely going to lose some power if you do that.

Even if you drive entirely in the city, where the MPG difference is more in favor of the turbo 4, it still costs more to run the turbo.
V6 = 8.82 miles per dollar in the city
I4 = 8.64 miles per dollar in the city


I'm really struggling here. What's left. Why did they bother to put the turbo 4 in the Wrangler? Refinement? According to the reviews (and common sense based on most other small turbo motors out now), the I4 is less refined with the exception of the start/stop system, which being BSG, works more seamlessly than the ESS in the V6.

Uh... maybe reliability? Well, I don't think anyone has any data on this new turbo 4, but historically small high strung turbocharged motors aren't renowned for running hundreds of thousands of miles without issue. Add to that the complexity of BSG system (more stuff to break) and the pretty decent reputation of the Pentastar, and while we can't be sure, my money is not on the 2.0T outlasting the 3.6 on average.

The one thing I can think of that will probably be better in the 2.0t is modding. I suspect like many factory turbo motors, you'll probably be able to spend a few hundred bucks on a tune and you'll be making quite a bit more power than from the factory. Though at what risk to reliability and warranty remains to be seen.

Anyway... I'm not trying to be a pessimist here. I'm just honestly asking, what reason is there to opt for the 2.0t? Do you think Chrysler had higher hopes for its fuel economy or power and it just didn't pan out?
 
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That’s the perfect example of the extra considerations that the mainstream turbo owner will not worry about. Will every DIY’er change their oil with Mobil 1, or will they use a no name Walmart sourced brand in the name of saving money? Will they even change it at 5k miles or let it go to 10k and beyond?

I surfed to research the overall durability of today’s modern turbocharged engines. There isn’t much data out there, considering the fairly recent change to many turbocharged engines to meet CAFE requirements; resulting in basically every car manufacturer now offering a turbocharged model.

As has been expressed on this thread and others; the Wrangler, with its brick wall architecture, will have to keep the 2.0 on boost a lot to overcome this poor aerodynamic deficiency. This constant on boost will stress out the engine considerably more than if it could comfortably cruise along without the turbocharger being required.

As I stated in another rant somewhere on this forum; I’ll let you turbo loving people be the sacrificial pigs and try out this new BSG 2.0 turbo. Hopefully, for your sake, you have many miles and years to prove out this technology. Good luck.
just to let you know actual mileage on a wrangler is 11 city and 13 highway it has been this way sense the pinstar came out and my 2018 is the same now ive owned three and there all the same
 

DanW

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just to let you know actual mileage on a wrangler is 11 city and 13 highway it has been this way sense the pinstar came out and my 2018 is the same now ive owned three and there all the same
I'm doing significantly better than that on 35s. 17.5 average, mostly city. Heck, my JK does better, too. 16.5 mpg average on 33s.
 
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thenewrick

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Turbos give more power with less emissions and more mpg. It might cost more at the pump, it might have different power bands and such.
 

Rockreid

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It’s a real shame they aren’t pairing the enthusiast engines with the manual for sure. A 300hp/350tq 2-door Wrangler Sahara with the anti spin differential would be a hoot.
Don't be too surprised when the first chip tune of this engine for the Wrangler nets around 340hp and 350ft lbs torque easy with no hardware mods
 

thenewrick

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I doubt it'll be that high but they will be easy to tune I'm sure. I wonder how eTorque affects tuning.
 

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