What's the point of the 2.0t?

thenewrick

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Bollinger has the right idea. Maybe it’ll sell a bunch and Fiat will take notice.

I just saw recently that Land Rover Is working on a 2 door boxy suv tho. Ugh. Had a Bronco 2 and explorer sport and loved them and always wanted another boxy 2 door suv. I think I’m going to be smitten. Apparently SVR is working on it so that could mean V8 plug in hybrid too.





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56nomad56

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Nah, they'll just impose pollution regulations, so you can breathe the air.
CARB already has the most stringent air pollution laws in the country. Hey, I'm all for clean air, but I'm seriously debating finishing my '56 Chevy Nomad with an LS1 Motor or selling it partially completed. I could just see finishing the car in a few years, just as CA outlawed ICEs.
 

thenewrick

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Turns out the 2-door Land Rover was a limited edition thing. Boo. Looking at Broncos and Wranglers again.

The worst part of an EV is the extra time needed to refuel on long road trips. Personally, I'm not a 12 hours driving straight kinda guy. So I'm okay stopping every few hours to recharge and refresh for an hour.
 

on--belay

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Tune shouldn’t affect the warranty either.
HAHAHAHAHA. That’s a good one. Assume you don’t have much luck with tuned turbos. If I took my APR A8 4.0T to the dealer and even mentioned warranty, I’d expect to get laughed at. You say an extra 100hp, without having any idea apparently of what you are talking about in terms of where that’s going to put the turbo pressure wise, and thus heat wise, the increased compression, the out of design specs now incurred with the IAT, EGT, injector curves, this makes me laugh. A Wrangler isn’t a performance vehicle, this is like a thread on the ZL1 forum saying I’m going to put a lift on mine and enter a WRC event. I can’t wait to see the first 2.0T on the side of the road with his muffler by maxwell house, hole cut out next to vent on side for blow off valve, and big aftermarket IC stuffed in where the grill used to be. OK, maybe that’s too far, but listening to the turbo pipe dreams here are just as far off.
 

thenewrick

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All vehicles are performance vehicles if you want them to be. :D

I’m sure you’ll be seeing tuned turbo wranglers very soon. My guess is 290hp/350tq on a stock car with a tune.

Turbos are tuned from factory for emissions and mpg. If you don’t mind reducing those numbers to increase horsepower, it’s safe and easy.
 

on--belay

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All vehicles are performance vehicles if you want them to be. :D
Yep, lipstick on a pig, it’s still a pig :D

I’m sure you’ll be seeing tuned turbo wranglers very soon. My guess is 290hp/350tq on a stock car with a tune.
Yep, I’m sure the resultant problems won’t be warranted.

Turbos are tuned from factory for emissions and mpg. If you don’t mind reducing those numbers to increase horsepower, it’s safe and easy.
Ignorance is bliss. I’ve built and raced plenty of turbo cars, from I4s to V8s, there’s no free lunch, but as you view it as as a disposable entity, I suppose it’s easy to throw around assumptions like they are knowledge. I’m guessing we’ll see the posts here about what the dealer didn’t cover not all that long after we see the rushed tunes; it’s a safe and easy bet :D
 

thenewrick

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If the tune causes damage then no it won’t be covered by warranty. I assumed everyone knows that though. Of course. Most folks on this forum are at least a little auto savvy.

I’ve been pretty lucky with my turbo tuning. I haven’t had any problems. I tend to use good parts and tunes though.

It’ll be interesting to see how much power some folks get out of the hurricane. With ethanol, methanol, and a big turbo I could see maybe 500hp and 11 second quarter mile times. More likely we will see the turbo diesel scene be more active and getting crazy torque numbers.
 

on--belay

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If the tune causes damage then no it won’t be covered by warranty. I assumed everyone knows that though. Of course. Most folks on this forum are at least a little auto savvy.

I’ve been pretty lucky with my turbo tuning. I haven’t had any problems. I tend to use good parts and tunes though.

It’ll be interesting to see how much power some folks get out of the hurricane. With ethanol, methanol, and a big turbo I could see maybe 500hp and 11 second quarter mile times. More likely we will see the turbo diesel scene be more active and getting crazy torque numbers.
I just can’t anymore, I can’t even tell if you are serious, or being facetious and baiting. So I’ll just agree that it’ll be intersting to see... your 11 second JL in my rearview:D
 

BillyHW

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I think they can detect if anybody has been messing with the tune or computer. I suspect you'll void your warranty if you go that route.
 

thenewrick

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I thought this was already discussed on this forum somewhere. I thought it was this thread for some reason. But nope. They have to show that the tune is what created the damage otherwise the warranty is fine and dandy. I’m surprised a race car driver who races I4s AND V8 turbos isn’t aware. ;)

If it were me, I’d drive the car for 6 months and see how it goes. Work out the issues first and get a feel for it. Then have it professionally tuned with a couple of aftermarket parts. But realistically, I wouldn’t buy a new car with a warranty.

Tuning is safer than ever these days because of all the failsafes in the ecu. A tuner can probably disable engine start stop and other neat things too. My last bmw was modified quite a bit including the software and was able to do lots of amazing stuff from disabling door and seatbelt chimes, one touch convertible up/down, having car default to race mode low traction control, and more.

Whole point of a Jeep is to modify it and play with a big toy. Don’t be scurred.
 

on--belay

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I thought this was already discussed on this forum somewhere. I thought it was this thread for some reason. But nope. They have to show that the tune is what created the damage otherwise the warranty is fine and dandy. I’m surprised a race car driver who races I4s AND V8 turbos isn’t aware. ;)
I love when the experts step in with their edicts about what a dealer has to do, makes me laugh. Equally impressed when it devolves to loosely veiled insults, but you are the expert! I know of, and have witnessed many cases where a dealership denied warranty due to a tune, as in I can't count them all, but my exposure is obviously different than your fantasy world, so I'll leave you as the expert with a caveat for others; be careful what you know. You may not have a problem, you may have a problem, but at least we know where to send them if they have any dealership issues, their forum counsel.:bow:
 

Demonic

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I thought this was already discussed on this forum somewhere. I thought it was this thread for some reason. But nope. They have to show that the tune is what created the damage otherwise the warranty is fine and dandy. I’m surprised a race car driver who races I4s AND V8 turbos isn’t aware. ;)
I think it's important we elaborate on the statement "They have to show that the tune is what created the damage otherwise the warranty is fine and dandy," as it's a bit misleading as stated. You're referencing the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. This is a legal precedent and therefore doesn't come into play until your warranty denial enters the legal arena. People with aftermarket tunes on cars are routinely denied warranty coverage because of a tune, and it's often based on the dealer and sometimes the manufacturer. Once the dealer denies warranty coverage, you could then try to go up the corporate ladder to FCA or whichever car manufacturer we're talking about. When then doesn't work, you could then sue for denial of coverage. Your legal precedent in the lawsuit would be the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. The car company knows that it's unlikely for you to spend the amount of money needed to lawyer up against their own legal time, so they can simply start off by denying your coverage and then saying if you don't like it, sue them. A similar issue just happened recently with the Viper crowd, who had casting defects in the blocks, and FCA was denying coverage because they had tunes, and in some cases even if previous owners had tunes that had since been removed. This was a clear case of the Magnuson-Moss act being something in their favor, but for many of them they realized that the cost of legally going after FCA was going to cost as much as the engine repairs. Heck, one GT350 owner had a dealer try to deny him warranty coverage because he had an oil catch-can installed.

Furthermore, many manufacturers will specifically state in the manual somewhere that aftermarket tuning or software can void your warranty. This line is specifically placed so that in a legal situation they can say that you specifically ran the engine outside of the parameters in which it was engineered to run, and that they therefore shouldn't be liable. Let's not forget, much of the drive for the Magnuson-Moss act was to prevent manufacturers from forcing customers to pay for their brands of things like oil or parts, and then deny coverage if you didn't use their products. It was not a legal precedent for forcing manufacturers to warranty modified engines.

So yes, your local dealer may be fine doing warranty service on a car with a tune. But telling people that a dealer has to prove your tune caused the failure in order to deny service simply isn't true. You'll find plenty of people who had coverage denied the moment the tune was found. Whether you want to pursue things legally at that point is up to you.
 

thenewrick

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That’s a good explanation.

So in short, if you’re extremely risk averse and do not want to void any part of your warranty, do not modify your car in any way unless it’s a dealer approved and installed part.

This includes bigger tires by the way.

If you put 33s on your car and an axle defect shows up they can surely deny your warranty. Has that stopped people from safely putting oversized tires on wranglers? Nope. Same with engine tuning. It’s just an area that wrangler fans aren’t as experienced in.

I’ve been pushing turbocharged engines hard on old platforms with lots of abuse and still haven’t seen a problem. Of course it can happen just like putting bigger tires on your wrangler can destroy the differential and transmission.

I ain’t scurred.
 

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