What other vehicles are you cross shopping? $5-6k increase causing second thoughts on JLU

JHJLUR

Well-Known Member
First Name
Justin
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
530
Reaction score
580
Location
SE PA
Vehicle(s)
17 GC Overland, 18 JLUR
Yep, what people don't realize is that Wrangler sales have been decreasing since 2015. I personally believe that the reasons for that are:

1) Market saturation. They've finally gotten to the point where they are making so many Wranglers that you actually see them sitting on dealer lots for a long while.

2) Price. JK pricing increased a LOT from 2012 through 2017 for what was essentially the exact same vehicle.

And if you look at JL...both of those points are made worse. They plan to build even more JLs, and as we all know the prices have gotten even more ridiculous.

I personally think the 2018 JL Wrangler will sell pretty well because it's an all new model (just like what happened with JK in 2007 and the 119,000 sales they had that year) but starting in 2019 we'll see Wrangler sales continue to decrease. This will lead to a lot of Wranglers sitting on lots, and will likely end up generating huge rebates on JL models in coming years which is something else that Wrangler traditionally never saw.

Bottom line: They've taken a great thing and they've milked it too much. They've gotten greedy and it is coming back to bite them now.

Did you consider that sales have been decreasing because the model was old, outdated compared to other 4 door options and since not much had changed owners felt little need to purchase another to upgrade....quite common at the end of a models life cycle...Remember, the hardcore guys might not care about that as much, but the typical 4 door SUV buyer certainly does and the really is the bulk of the Wranglers customer...Consider the typical Jeep buyers income demo, its high, the JL is transitioning to something more desirable for their demo while at the same time becoming more capable off-road in a nod to their roots.
Advertisement

 

mlong003

Active Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Oct 26, 2017
Messages
41
Reaction score
28
Location
Frederick, MD
Vehicle(s)
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
I currently have a 2016 JK (thats had a few issues) and am lovin on the new JL so I've debated a trade in a year or two, however, my same build is going upwards of a 13K+ increase. Around $53K after tax etc. - give or take a few options and dollars. I think that's insane. I wont spend that much-not given my track record with the current model. This is a Wrangler. I understand they've made a hand full of improvements, but that's luxury pricing for pretty basic options on what is standard with most other vehicles today. I'd expect no leaks, rattles, or electrical glitches, with superior handling, performance and capability for that price...I think they'll lose a lot of their following and younger audience-unless folks stick with a base sport model? Maybe? The JK (in all trim levels) was a fair price for a super fun, capable vehicle that clearly, has been successful.

I am curious to see how sales pan out in the first two years...

Cross shopping choices when I bought the JK:
Chevy Colorado
Toyota 4 Runner
Land Rover LR4
Subaru Cross Trek
 

gumbyhoss

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
129
Reaction score
364
Location
Richmond, VA
Vehicle(s)
Previous: '87 YJ '96 TJ '06 TJ '11 WKII '13 JK 2dr Sport Current: '18 JLUR
Vehicle Showcase
1
initial Cross Shops, mostly based on sticker shock from the Rubi:

Range Rover Velar
Jaguar F Pace

Then I remembered the last time I had a vehicle with a limited aftermarket for modification, so those were out. Second Cross Shop:

Toyota 4 Runner
 

JHJLUR

Well-Known Member
First Name
Justin
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
530
Reaction score
580
Location
SE PA
Vehicle(s)
17 GC Overland, 18 JLUR
I currently have a 2016 JK (thats had a few issues) and am lovin on the new JL so I've debated a trade in a year or two, however, my same build is going upwards of a 13K+ increase. Around $53K after tax etc. - give or take a few options and dollars. I think that's insane. I wont spend that much-not given my track record with the current model. This is a Wrangler. I understand they've made a hand full of improvements, but that's luxury pricing for pretty basic options on what is standard with most other vehicles today. I'd expect no leaks, rattles, or electrical glitches, with superior handling, performance and capability for that price...I think they'll lose a lot of their following and younger audience-unless folks stick with a base sport model? Maybe? The JK (in all trim levels) was a fair price for a super fun, capable vehicle that clearly, has been successful.

I am curious to see how sales pan out in the first two years...

Cross shopping choices when I bought the JK:
Chevy Colorado
Toyota 4 Runner
Land Rover LR4
Subaru Cross Trek


One thing I agree with you on as I wait for my new JLUR, if this model turns out not to be a substantial upgrade in both refinement and quality ( I do believe it will be) it will be my last wrangler... unless I buy and old classic as a 3rd car. I like where Jeep is taking this, but they need to walk the walk then, I put up with the JK's faults, and all of my other Wranglers before then because to an extent they were a price point vehicle...we have gotten beyond that now, so my expectations will be much higher.
 

tilleo

Active Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
28
Reaction score
23
Location
woodstock
Vehicle(s)
GTI
I currently have a 2016 JK (thats had a few issues) and am lovin on the new JL so I've debated a trade in a year or two, however, my same build is going upwards of a 13K+ increase. Around $53K after tax etc. - give or take a few options and dollars. I think that's insane. I wont spend that much-not given my track record with the current model. This is a Wrangler. I understand they've made a hand full of improvements, but that's luxury pricing for pretty basic options on what is standard with most other vehicles today. I'd expect no leaks, rattles, or electrical glitches, with superior handling, performance and capability for that price...I think they'll lose a lot of their following and younger audience-unless folks stick with a base sport model? Maybe? The JK (in all trim levels) was a fair price for a super fun, capable vehicle that clearly, has been successful.

I am curious to see how sales pan out in the first two years...

Cross shopping choices when I bought the JK:
Chevy Colorado
Toyota 4 Runner
Land Rover LR4
Subaru Cross Trek
Dat Colorado zr2 though.

And ford ranger raptor
Mmm mmm.
 

mlong003

Active Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Oct 26, 2017
Messages
41
Reaction score
28
Location
Frederick, MD
Vehicle(s)
2016 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
One thing I agree with you on as I wait for my new JLUR, if this model turns out not to be a substantial upgrade in both refinement and quality ( I do believe it will be) it will be my last wrangler... unless I buy and old classic as a 3rd car. I like where Jeep is taking this, but they need to walk the walk then, I put up with the JK's faults, and all of my other Wranglers before then because to an extent they were a price point vehicle...we have gotten beyond that now, so my expectations will be much higher.
Ditto.
 

Jetg

Member
First Name
Jet
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
21
Reaction score
8
Location
Houston, Tx
Vehicle(s)
16' 911 convertible, 18' Macan PP
I didn't necessarily cross shop, the wrangler 2 door is perfect for a daily commute and fun 3rd vehicle that will fit outside between our garage and driveway gate. We just ordered a Porsche Macan PP which was originally suppose to be my daily driver. But my wife switched jobs so she will be driving it and I will be ordering the Jeep for me, to keep the miles off the 911 convertible. Will officially be ordering in the next 2 weeks, waiting to see about the 2.0L and decide then what I want. It will be a Rubicon 2 dr, loaded out.
 

sfadchi

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
290
Reaction score
291
Location
Wellington, FL
Vehicle(s)
18' Bright White JLUR
Occupation
Corporate Recruiter
I don't know that it's a huge difference in price or more they are forcing you to take options that you would have had to pay for in the JKUR. I'm at least talking about the JLUR in particular.

Example:
JKUR
Auto
4.10s
Connectivity Group
430N
Auto A/C
SRS
MSRP: $43,515

JLUR
Equivalent options are standard, plus more, and the 10A/Hard Rock hood!
Auto
MSRP: $43,690
 

JHJLUR

Well-Known Member
First Name
Justin
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
530
Reaction score
580
Location
SE PA
Vehicle(s)
17 GC Overland, 18 JLUR
I don't know that it's a huge difference in price or more they are forcing you to take options that you would have had to pay for in the JKUR. I'm at least talking about the JLUR in particular.

Example:
JKUR
Auto
4.10s
Connectivity Group
430N
Auto A/C
SRS
MSRP: $43,515

JLUR
Equivalent options are standard, plus more, and the 10A/Hard Rock hood!
Auto
MSRP: $43,690

Agreed, and finally they are offering options beyond what they used to so people ( including myself ) are checking those boxes and have sticker shock...Im not sticker shocked, Im happy what they have done, but my expectations are higher then they were for the JK, Im confident they'll be met, I just think people are benchmarking the JK and realizing if we are all honest that while it was a fun vehicle and capable offload, it was mediocre on the quality front and the on road driving experience was decidedly unrefined...with that in their head they are using it as a comparison to the JL, Im hoping that it blows away the JK in all of those areas and I have no reason to think otherwise....but, we will see.
 

tilleo

Active Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
28
Reaction score
23
Location
woodstock
Vehicle(s)
GTI
I didn't necessarily cross shop, the wrangler 2 door is perfect for a daily commute and fun 3rd vehicle that will fit outside between our garage and driveway gate. We just ordered a Porsche Macan PP which was originally suppose to be my daily driver. But my wife switched jobs so she will be driving it and I will be ordering the Jeep for me, to keep the miles off the 911 convertible. Will officially be ordering in the next 2 weeks, waiting to see about the 2.0L and decide then what I want. It will be a Rubicon 2 dr, loaded out.
A Porsche Macan is a nice vehicle but it's no 911.
 

Cwu21

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Dec 23, 2017
Messages
721
Reaction score
1,285
Location
SAN Diego/ Meridian ID
Vehicle(s)
2020 JLURD
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
i have been having a car debate for quite some time now. I have had serious internal debates with my self between the JLUR or F250 SuperDuty.

I was prepared to spend 60+ on a Truck so the price doesn’t affect me to much. However I am like a lot of people on here and feel that they are Nickel and diming us for features that should be standard (LED lighting, remote start, proximity entry, active safety group) at their current price point. I get with new models come with added cost but we are seeing and increase in the models as it is correct me if I’m wrong but the JK rubicon started out at 37 now we are at 40. That’s your increase which should include those standard features. I get paying extra for infotainment and hardtop and auto trans but paying extra for active safety and led lights is just non sense.

I am 98% sure that the JLUR is my next vehicle and I will continue to have this internal debate until they atleast release the price increase for the Diesel.
 

swozey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
401
Reaction score
298
Location
Denver, CO
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR
Vehicle Showcase
1
I was shopping the following. Basically I wanted a comfortable and technology filled overlander that looked aggressive. I wanted to be comfortable while not being limited to where I go. I'm not a rock crawler or anything like that. I just like to go camping and hiking in cool places. I buy cars every 2-3 years and I really want to get out of that habit and just have one vehicle that checks off everything I want and won't be dated in the next 5 or more years.

  • Toyota 4Runner Offroad Premium or TRD Pro w/ KDSS: I haven't driven one but the technology in this is just not what I want. They updated most of Toyotas lineup last year but they skipped the 4runner. People aren't sure if Toyota is going to cancel the 4runner or if they're going to update it in 2019 or 2020. I am a huge Toyota fanboy. My Lexus IS350 was one of the best vehicles I've ever owned. The technology in my 2006 IS350 was incredible for the time and I put 60k miles on it and never touched anything but oil and brakes. I beat the hell out of it. No android auto. Old ugly Toyota software.
  • Toyota Tacoma Offroad Premium or PRO: I really like the new interior but the technology is way behind. Every review I've read has complaints about the motor and transmission just feeling sluggish, lots of complaints about constant gear hunting, things of that nature. It still has drum brakes and the frames are known for rusting. Looks are subjective, I think it looks pretty good but it's not my favorite. The ride height is.. goofy. It's hard to explain. No android auto. Old ugly Toyota software. I just don't feel like it's a $42k vehicle.
  • Colorado Z71 or Zr2: I drove a z71 Diesel all around the PNW, about 1k miles and absolutely loved it. I went in with incredibly low expectations and it blew them away. If the diesel was a V6 and the interior was nicer this would likely be the top of my list. The 4cyl diesel without a tune/pedal commander can't drive itself out of a wet paper bag. It was insanely slow from 0mph, to the point that I'd be nervous pulling out to make a left turn into traffic. This was my first experience with Android Auto and that's now a requirement on anything I buy. The diesel has an old 6 speed automatic while the V6 has a brand new 8speed auto that is supposedly much better. But with the diesel you can add an $800 tune and pedal commander and bump up hp and tq something like 20%. Big problem is nobody knows how much HP this new transmission can handle. I think the ZR2 looks amazing. Also the ZR2 is the only Colorado that comes with a completely black interior. if you get the Z71 or a lower model the dashboard is this goofy blue-grey while your seats would be black. Oh, yeah and with the Diesel you get I believe a 24 gallon tank and I was getting 541 miles a tank while driving around the PNW. I was getting about 24mpg which was incredible.
  • Grand Cherokee HA Overland or Trailhawk: Haven't driven, I've watched a bunch of reviews where people gush over this but I've also read a ton of complaints about the transmission and other issues on the forums. The Trailhawk (I forget if the others do) also has an air suspension which.. I've seen a ton of older cars with air suspensions, like $120k Benz's that wind up sitting on the ground 24 hours after driving them because the air suspension begins leaking. I just don't have a very high opinion of GCs. This seems like the perfect vehicle for what I want, great audio system, tons of technology, capable, comfortable. The reliability just terrifies me. I have coworkers with the previous model GC and they're constantly getting alternators etc replaced. Maybe I'm just too used to driving Toyotas, etc.
  • Wrangler Sahara or Rubicon: This honestly wasn't even on my list until the JL randomly popped up. I've never liked riding in my friends Wranglers (mostly JKs). They've always felt like they're going to blow off the highway or just being an in incredibly rough ride. I've got a 500hp BMW with racing suspension and that is the last thing I want in this new vehicle I buy. It's a garage queen because it's just so uncomfortable to daily drive. If the JL is as upgraded ride wise as the reviews give it, this is now at the top of my list. It has the killer new Uconnect. Honestly, here I thought I'd just go with the Sport S but the limited options for stuff like 8" Uconnect and leather and what not means I basically have to get a Sahara or Rubicon, and at that point I'd just get the Rubicon.
I looked at a few of the options you've posted, including stuff like the BMW X3 turbo, etc. They just weren't as rugged as I'm aiming for. The X3 turbo seems really great for what it is. But I want something I can throw my dogs in and not really care about scratching the seats and all that jazz.

My biggest disappoint by far is Toyotas current line up. I just don't think it compares in capability or technology anymore. All the Toyo guys go "if it ain't broke don't fix it." That's not my jam. Seeing the same interface on a 2017 Toyota that was on my 2006 Lexus (with some improvements of course) just ruins it for me.

I was really aiming to spend about $42k on whatever I got. I can find Zr2s for 38k but I feel like if I got a ZR2 I'd see JLs and just wish I'd spent the extra 10k. I'll have to drive one and see how much I like it.
 

Moe

Well-Known Member
First Name
Moe
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
50
Reaction score
47
Location
SW Ohio
Vehicle(s)
F250, Fit
Occupation
Retired X 2 = 23 years USAF + 23 years IT
Hello guys. First post here.

I was wondering what vehicle or vehicles you were cross shopping against the JL.
Code:
Make:             Subaru        Jeep          Jeep           Honda
Model:            Forester      JL            JLU            CR-V
Trim:             Premium       Sport S       Sport S        EX AWD
Interior          Cloth         Cloth         Cloth          Cloth
MSRP Delivered:   $26,610       $31,390       $34,890        $28,325
Hard Top          Standard      $ 1,095       $ 1,095        Standard
Sunroof           Panoramic     Panels        Panels         Standard
Automatic         $   500       $ 2,000       $ 2,000        Standard
Heated Seats      $   500       $ 1,090       $ 1,090        Standard
Push Button Start No            Yes           Yes            Yes
Proximity Entry   No            No            No             Yes
CarPlay/AA        Avail 2019    $   995       $   995        Included
4WD/AWD           AWD           PT 4WD        PT 4WD         AWD
Low Range         No            Yes           Yes            No
Tow Hooks         Eyebolts      2 F, 1 R      2 F, 1 R       None
Hill Descent      Yes, X-Mode   in 4WD Low    in 4WD Low     No
Safety Package    $ 1,195       $   895       $   895        $ 1,000
- Front           Yes           No            No             Yes
- Rear            Yes           Yes           Yes            Yes
Equipped Price:   $28,805       $37,465       $40,965        $29,325

Length:           180.9”        166.8"        188.4"         180.6"
                   15.1’         13.9'         15.7'          15.0'
Wheelbase:        103.9”         96.8"        118.4"         104.7"
F Legroom          43.0”         41.2”         41.2”          41.3”
R Legroom          41.7”         35.7”         38.3”          39.1”

Width:             70.7”         73.8”         73.8”          73.0”
Track, F           60.9”         62.9”         62.9”          62.9”
Track, R           61.1”         62.9”         62.9”          63.5”
F Shoulder:        57.0”         55.7”         55.7”          57.9”
F Hip:             53.9”         53.9”         53.9”          55.1”
R Shoulder:        56.5”         57.7”         55.7”          55.6”
R Hip:             53.0”         45.0”         56.7”          49.5”

Height:            66.4”         73.6”         73.6”          66.5”
F Headroom:        39.4”         42.6”         42.6”          38.0”
R Headroom:        38.8”         41.7”         41.7”          39.1”

Passenger Volume  103.3 cu ft    88.4 JK*     103.7 cu ft    102.9 cu ft
Cargo              31.5 cu ft    12.8 JK*      46.7 cu ft     39.2 cu ft
Max cargo          68.5 cu ft    56.8 JK*      72.4 cu ft     75.8 cu ft

Turning, c to c    34.8’         34.5’         40.8’          37.4’

Approach:          23.0º         41.4º          41.4º         20.8º    
Breakover:         21.0º         25.0”          20.3º          N/A
Departure:         25.0º         35.9º          35.9º         24.8º
Clearance:          8.7”          9.7”           9.7”          8.2”

EPA Manual        22/24/28      17/20/25       17/19/23        Auto Only
EPA Automatic     26/28/32      18/20/23       18/20/23        27/29/33
Tank (gals)         15.9          18.5           21.5            14.0
Tank x Combined   382/445 mi    370/370 mi     409/430 mi       406 mi

Towing, pounds      1500          2000           3500           1,500

* Jeep is currently publishing JLU 4-door volumes for JL 2-door
 
Last edited:

Lee Woiteshek

Active Member
First Name
Lee
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Messages
28
Reaction score
7
Location
Pueblo West Colorado
Vehicle(s)
Toyota Matrix
I'm right there too. Zr2 diesel has everything I want at 47-50K loaded. Nissan Titan XD PRO 4X loaded with every factory option, including the Cummins and Asin, and a bumper to bumper 5 year 100K warrentee for 47K. The JL Rubicon loaded with diesel is gonna be 60K as I live and breathe.
 

Jetg

Member
First Name
Jet
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
21
Reaction score
8
Location
Houston, Tx
Vehicle(s)
16' 911 convertible, 18' Macan PP
A Porsche Macan is a nice vehicle but it's no 911.

This is true, that is why we have both. 2016 Turbo 911 convertible, and the Macan we just got the end of Oct. The Macan is the most powerful Macan they produce as it is the 2018 Turbo Macan with the Performance Package so 440 hp.


The jeep will be a nice addition
 
Advertisement

Clayton Offroad
 
Advertisement
Top