What is up with rock stacking?

[OllieChristopher]

seems you're missing your own point; it is absolutely true that the trails mentioned are for everyone, hence why people die out there every year.
nobody said just because they're for the public it's OK to go out there stupid, and that goes as much for when we're on 2 wheels as when we're on 4.



now it seems like you're just disqualifying yourself in multiple ways, not the least of which is that you started this thread specifically on the premise of disparaging others.

You can twist it any way you like. I will never ever agree that stacking rocks and destroying trails for self indulged gratification is right. I'm smart enough to know when to turn around when the trail gets too rough.

Too many of the motoring public think otherwise and that's why trails and riding/driving areas are closing. I have volunteered many hours of my time with both BLM and Forestry Service over the years to fix stupid trail behavior. Trash, erosion due to illegal off trail bypasses, cutting down living trees etc.

Rock stacking is just the newest version of destroying our trail systems. I assure you if a BLM or Forestry officer were to catch someone modifying it with rock stacking there are not going to be too happy.

As per BLM regulation: "Outdoor recreational activities are allowed on BLM land, with the stipulation that you leave the land the way you found it."

Anyone who has volunteered with the BLM or Forestry Service already knows this. Everyone else is simply uneducated. Coming on a forum and bragging about splitting rocks and chopping off living branches is a disservice to all of as who enjoy the trails.

Sponsored

 

[OllieChristopher]

How about you go to your TicToc and Instagram accounts and hang out with your own kind!! LOL "

I'm too old for that nonsense. Nice try though!!

If folks knew you are just a troll that doesn't even own a Wrangler they might consider puting you on their ignore list, like I'm going to do.

Your choice to ignore me. In fact might not be a bad idea if you do so. FWIW, I don't need to own a Wrangler JL nor have I ever claimed to. I have every right to my point of views just as yourself.

I've cleared a few of my favorite trails of troublesome bolders and outcropings that are known to damage vehicles. I found a 20v Dewalt cordless roto hammer, 1/2" masonry bit, feathers&wedges and a 5 LB. hammer is all it takes easily split some big rocks.

Your self admitted destruction to trails tells me you are not the kind of driver that represents most of the off road community. I have my doubts that you have spent much (if any) time volunteering your time with the BLM and Forestry Service.

I find it odd and disturbing that there are forum members of a Jeep Wrangler community who have no issue destroying trails and cast aside anyones opinion who's a steward of the Tread Lightly motto. Oh well I'm set in my ways. I make no apologies for it.

However, you are allowed your beliefs even if they are not in agreement to my own.

 

[roaniecowpony]

This thread has been a good read, if for nothing else other than to better understand various perspectives on these public land trails.

On one hand, there are those that believe these trails are specifically engineered to be only compatible with specific vehicle configurations (usually the configuration they spend 10s of thousands creating), are the playground designed for jeepers and should be "maintained" that way. The ski slope analogy illustrates this position perfectly. Everyone else should stay off (my damn trail. ).

On the other hand, there are the people that believe these public trails are for the public and everyone and any vehicle, whatever it takes, to get through it is fine.

Of course, there are more than just two sides to this.

Here's my thoughts. As our population has increased and more people are seeking outdoor recreation, generally people, especially us urbanites, have come to expect certain things, maybe even "take for granted" things. For example, I think a lot of people go to our National Parks expecting a certain level of care and safety from the park. Then they are shocked when a wild animal harms them or their vehicle. These trails in the wilderness that we run are often many decades or even a century old and were cut by loggers, miners, etc.. They weren't always a "black diamond" jeep trail. Nature and continuous use made them that way. They have been constantly changing. I don't expect the Subaru or Baja bug (showing my age), that stacked rocks, to remove them, any more than I expect the driver of the jeep with 37s aired down to 5 psi ripping 100lb rocks out of their beds, to replace them as they found them, or that guy with giant mud tires that cuts ruts so deep that only tires his size or larger can pass in his tracks, to refill the mud he displaced.

I know there are a lot more subtleties to the subject. But in general, trails change from driving rigs on them or stacking rocks. Roll with it.

 

[roaniecowpony]

That last post by Chris kinda stirred a thought that is yet another perspective. I did horses for about 20 years. Mainly trail riding and exploring the Mojave desert mines and such.

From that perspective, Jeepers, dune buggies, and dirt bikes were anything but "tread lightly", let alone a full size pickup with monster tires. When you move down the trail at a snails pace and look at your animal's footing, any motor vehicle is not "treading lightly".

It's just another perspective to keep in mind when us jeepers happen upon a hiker or horse rider.

 

[Industrialwrench]

Leave no trace. End of story. Stack a thousand rocks if you need to, whatever. Just clear them out when your done.

 

[Pinky Tuscadero]

Let them fix the f-ing trails, they were either destroyed by natural causes or by us in the first place that they have gotten so bad that heavily modded Jeeps are needed to pass them safely, pretending they are being destroyed when actually simply being repaired because we don't want to share with folks who don't have every single mod and then cherry picking select areas to show so called "rock stacking" when in fact they were simply repairing previously damaged trails
When I see the trail of Jeeps fording through water in super deep ruts created by those very same vehicles its clear the guilty party is us and not the park services or volunteer groups
I've watched enough damage caused by us that I know where most of it came from
So whats the alternative ? keep destroying until we all need 50" tires and 15" lifts ???
Let them fix the f-ing trails - and help if you can

 

[entropy]

Leave no trace. End of story. Stack a thousand rocks if you need to, whatever. Just clear them out when your done.

Unfortunately the leave no trace concept isnt black and white. It is impossible to leave no trace when wheeling a heavy ass jeep with 37s. Thatll leave more of a trace than a few little rocks stacked by some weakling. And the rocks were always part of that trail anyway.

I think people overthink this stuff. Just go have some fun and dont leave any trash behind or human made stuff.

 

[entropy]

This thread has been a good read, if for nothing else other than to better understand various perspectives on these public land trails.

On one hand, there are those that believe these trails are specifically engineered to be only compatible with specific vehicle configurations (usually the configuration they spend 10s of thousands creating), are the playground designed for jeepers and should be "maintained" that way. The ski slope analogy illustrates this position perfectly. Everyone else should stay off (my damn trail. ).

On the other hand, there are the people that believe these public trails are for the public and everyone and any vehicle, whatever it takes, to get through it is fine.

Of course, there are more than just two sides to this.

Here's my thoughts. As our population has increased and more people are seeking outdoor recreation, generally people, especially us urbanites, have come to expect certain things, maybe even "take for granted" things. For example, I think a lot of people go to our National Parks expecting a certain level of care and safety from the park. Then they are shocked when a wild animal harms them or their vehicle. These trails in the wilderness that we run are often many decades or even a century old and were cut by loggers, miners, etc.. They weren't always a "black diamond" jeep trail. Nature and continuous use made them that way. They have been constantly changing. I don't expect the Subaru or Baja bug (showing my age), that stacked rocks, to remove them, any more than I expect the driver of the jeep with 37s aired down to 5 psi ripping 100lb rocks out of their beds, to replace them as they found them, or that guy with giant mud tires that cuts ruts so deep that only tires his size or larger can pass in his tracks, to refill the mud he displaced.

I know there are a lot more subtleties to the subject. But in general, trails change from driving rigs on them or stacking rocks. Roll with it.

Nailed it.

I want a simple Jeep that I can safely and comfortable drive down the road. I also want to enjoy these trails for years to come. Yet with the current obsession with bigger tires and lifts the damage these trails are sustaining is pretty substantial.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Nailed it.

I want a simple Jeep that I can safely and comfortable drive down the road. I also want to enjoy these trails for years to come. Yet with the current obsession with bigger tires and lifts the damage these trails are sustaining is pretty substantial.

Related to this topic, I recently watched a video of the Rubicon trail being maintained. They used an Erickson Skycrane helicopter to haul something like 800 tons of rocks up on the trail. I think it was about 10 years ago Rock on the Rubicon (edcgov.us)

Then again this year.
helicopter | The 'Other' Rubicon (theotherrubicon.com)

The more I read about the Rubicon, the more it seems there is regular maintenance. Dang rock stackers.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Sometimes you need to stack a few rocks just to get out of a bad situation, but proper etiquette is to unstack those rocks when you’re done. Rock stacks left behind still piss me off far less than trash left behind, or even worse graffitI. We are out on trails for the nature and the challenge. If you can’t leave it better than you found it, don’t come out period.

Sponsored