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What is up with rock stacking?

OllieChristopher

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I'm not happy with this trend of destroying good black diamond trails. How about stay off the trail if your rig is not capable. I watched a video the other day that made me sick to my stomach. It was a group of Subarus and Honda Passports tackling Mengel Pass in Death Valley.

Both Mengel Pass and Goler Wash were darn near black diamond trails just 20 years ago. Even a motorcycle was challenged with a Novice "C" rider like myself.

Now both are like damn freeways!! It looks like a bottom dump came through and filled everything in with small babyhead rocks.

Big Bear same thing. Holcomb Creek, Gold Mountain, White Mountain, John Bull and a bunch of un-named trails I used to enjoy are all dumbed down with filled in ruts and ledges.

What is wrong with society that they have to destroy good trails?

This video says it all. You don't even have to play it. Just look at the freeze frame and all the rock piles used to ruin it:



I'm an older dude now but I will continue to make it my mission on the trails to remove the man made crap so the trails can be like they once were.
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bjm00se

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Both Mengel Pass and Goler Wash were darn near black diamond trails just 20 years ago. Even a motorcycle was challenged with a Novice "C" rider like myself.

Now both are like damn freeways!! It looks like a bottom dump came through and filled everything in with small babyhead rocks.
I don't think you realize that the Park Service does come through and do maintenance on those roads on an irregular schedule.

Every year, depending on the weather, the texture of the roads change. Some years, flash floods leave them impassable. After that happens, the graders and the maintenance crews roll through.

Then the trails are suitable for mild SUVs, and the pattern of erosion and deterioration begins anew.
 

RubiBlueJLU

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Filling in tough spots and making ramps with that many rocks gives those with neither the knowledge nor the vehicle to complete hard trails, and then claim they conquered them. Trail now equals a gravel road! ā€œHey, I got a participation trophy!ā€
If it was easy, everyone would be doing itā€¦..wait, they are now.

I have stacked a rock or two to get my now sold stock ā€˜01 TJ up a ledge I couldnā€™t quite make, but the rocks were removed after my climb. I believe the term is ā€œjeep steps, as proclaimed by ā€œotherā€ 4WD manufacturers/drivers. LOL.

Everyone need a ā€œleg upā€ now and then, but being carried the whole way is worthless.
 
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OllieChristopher

OllieChristopher

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I don't think you realize that the Park Service does come through and do maintenance on those roads on an irregular schedule.

Every year, depending on the weather, the texture of the roads change. Some years, flash floods leave them impassable. After that happens, the graders and the maintenance crews roll through.

Then the trails are suitable for mild SUVs, and the pattern of erosion and deterioration begins anew.
Actually I do realize it. I have volunteered and been on more than my share of trail crews clearing and rerouting. I have never once been on trail maintenance that stacks rocks to make it easier.
 

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AlgUSF

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OP, you just don't realize how capable a Subi is. Gets 35mpg and can handle Black Diamond trails. They darn near make it look easy, with the comfort of IFS and don't even spill your Starbucks coffee.

SARCASM!!!!!
 

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Filling in tough spots and making ramps with that many rocks gives those with neither the knowledge nor the vehicle to complete hard trails, and then claim they conquered them. Trail now equals a gravel road! ā€œHey, I got a participation trophy!ā€
If it was easy, everyone would be doing itā€¦..wait, they are now.

I have stacked a rock or two to get my now sold stock ā€˜01 TJ up a ledge I couldnā€™t quite make, but the rocks were removed after my climb. I believe the term is ā€œjeep steps, as proclaimed by ā€œotherā€ 4WD manufacturers/drivers. LOL.

Everyone need a ā€œleg upā€ now and then, but being carried the whole way is worthless.
i know this is a bit of a taboo topic. I think a rock or two are fine. If you get like a wheel in the air and you are sooo close and need that little extra little traction there to get through. Those also get pushed out of the way once you get through, since theyre lose. Nothing wrong with stacking a rock or two to get yourself unstuck, avoids using the winch.

But there are people stacking dozens of rocks, making ramps with them. Thats another story. Cause they get all wedged and ruin the trail.

I agree these subarus have no business on these trails.
 

bjm00se

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Actually I do realize it. I have volunteered and been on more than my share of trail crews clearing and rerouting. I have never once been on trail maintenance that stacks rocks to make it easier.
That's fair. Though I continue to maintain there's a difference between an "adopt a trail" type event sponsored by a 4x4 club using hand tools vs. a paid maintenance crew using graders and heavy equipment.

We can agree that it's good trail etiquette to always remove any rocks you've stacked in order to enable your passage through, and that folks don't always follow that best practice, and so reinforcing the message is a good thing.
 

Fsttanks

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I'm not happy with this trend of destroying good black diamond trails. How about stay off the trail if your rig is not capable. I watched a video the other day that made me sick to my stomach. It was a group of Subarus and Honda Passports tackling Mengel Pass in Death Valley.

Both Mengel Pass and Goler Wash were darn near black diamond trails just 20 years ago. Even a motorcycle was challenged with a Novice "C" rider like myself.

Now both are like damn freeways!! It looks like a bottom dump came through and filled everything in with small babyhead rocks.

Big Bear same thing. Holcomb Creek, Gold Mountain, White Mountain, John Bull and a bunch of un-named trails I used to enjoy are all dumbed down with filled in ruts and ledges.

What is wrong with society that they have to destroy good trails?

This video says it all. You don't even have to play it. Just look at the freeze frame and all the rock piles used to ruin it:



I'm an older dude now but I will continue to make it my mission on the trails to remove the man made crap so the trails can be like they once were.
Stacking rocks has been used for more then 40 years and is a solid and well established methodology for off roading safely. You mentioned Big Bear, I have watch Big Bear trails torn to hell by the huge tires and overuse of the skinny pedal crowd in the last 20 years and have photos that show the deterioration of the trails.

Back then one did not need 37ā€-40ā€ tires or 20ā€ of flex to navigate black diamond trails. Today it has becoming almost necessary on many of the popular Big Bear trails like John Bull and Gold Mountain. Heck even stock JL/JLURs are having extremely hard times negotiating these trails. Not to mention the difficulties Sports and Willys are seeing. Are you saying all the non modified Jeepā€™s, Fords, Toyotas P/U and the like are not welcome because they have to stack rocks to avoid damage to their vehicles?

All rock stacker are doing is practicing sound safety and returning the trails to their original state before the advent of huge tires and unlimited flex came along. It is the overbuilt Jeepā€™s and 4x4s with their thoughtless owners that are the issue, not the guy with the stock Jeep or Toyota stacking rocks so they can enjoy the same trails that were accessible to them 20 years ago.
 
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TX_Ovrlnd

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Such fragile people. Whether you're stacking rocks or using a different piece of nature to enable passage or doing a lift and large tires or winching, they're all modifications for making trails easier. Travel across America was literally made possible because human altered natural formations to make them easier to traverse, check the ego.
 

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What is up with rock stacking?

Prius drivers have to be able to get to where they're going.
 

hiimmike

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I'm not happy with this trend of destroying good black diamond trails. How about stay off the trail if your rig is not capable. I watched a video the other day that made me sick to my stomach. It was a group of Subarus and Honda Passports tackling Mengel Pass in Death Valley.

Both Mengel Pass and Goler Wash were darn near black diamond trails just 20 years ago. Even a motorcycle was challenged with a Novice "C" rider like myself.

Now both are like damn freeways!! It looks like a bottom dump came through and filled everything in with small babyhead rocks.

Big Bear same thing. Holcomb Creek, Gold Mountain, White Mountain, John Bull and a bunch of un-named trails I used to enjoy are all dumbed down with filled in ruts and ledges.

What is wrong with society that they have to destroy good trails?

This video says it all. You don't even have to play it. Just look at the freeze frame and all the rock piles used to ruin it:



I'm an older dude now but I will continue to make it my mission on the trails to remove the man made crap so the trails can be like they once were.
Back in my dayā€¦.. hahah I kid with you and I get what youā€™re saying. However, whatā€™s the most used motto in IT? Other than have you tried turning it off and back on againā€¦. Work smarter not harder.

I totally get part of the thrill is climbing the ledges and doing things that other vehicles cannot. I donā€™t see any problem with someone taking hours to stack rocks on a trail so they can drive their Honda passport on it and I also certainly donā€™t have problems with you smashing down their sand castle.
 
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OllieChristopher

OllieChristopher

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Such fragile people. Whether you're stacking rocks or using a different piece of nature to enable passage or doing a lift and large tires or winching, they're all modifications for making trails easier. Travel across America was literally made possible because human altered natural formations to make them easier to traverse, check the ego.

You either missed my point or interpreted it incorrectlyJ. I'm strictly speaking of marked black diamond extreme hard trails that are not designed to be modified and dumbed down for lesser skilled drivers or vehicles. To be clear I am not talking about maintained or modified forest roads or paved roads modified for cross country travel.

I specifically mentioning rock stacking because it is getting to be out of control for every damn ledge, rut, or soft sections. It has been a big topic of discussion at race club meetings over the last 10 years or so.

It's not limited to 4 wheels either. We have a local guy who has used pics and shovels to carve down more than one obstacle to enable his payed for group rides to include riders who have no business on the trail due to lack of skill.

We have so many other resources. Some of which you mentioned such as larger tires and winches that can get us out of sticky situations.

Here is my video a few years back on a very easy section of Holcomb Creek coming in from the West end. This idiot and his spotter had no business being on this trail. Just to the right of me was a perfect line for him to take. He thought otherwise and almost rolled his vehicle:



Both myself and Kaitlyn were blown away at their rudeness and disregard for safety. I had to cut the camera filming before it got ugly. They just about mowed down the young lady I was riding with.
 

Maverick909

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I'm not against using a rock to get you out of being suck or getting you past with out body damage But if you can stack them you can easily unstack them once you are up or once your groups last vehicle is through. I have had to do this a time or two but i do my best to make sure i remove any rock(s) that i have stacked at the time when needed. Seems like todays generations have lost common sense and common curtesy for other people trying to get out and enjoy trails and activities. My though still stands in line with Pack in pack out more. if you stack please unstack.
 

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You either missed my point or interpreted it incorrectly J. I'm strictly speaking of marked black diamond extreme hard trails that are not designed to be modified and dumbed down for lesser skilled drivers or vehicles. To be clear I am not talking about maintained or modified forest roads or paved roads modified for cross country travel.

I specifically mentioning rock stacking because it is getting to be out of control for every damn ledge, rut, or soft sections. It has been a big topic of discussion at race club meetings over the last 10 years or so.

It's not limited to 4 wheels either. We have a local guy who has used pics and shovels to carve down more than one obstacle to enable his payed for group rides to include riders who have no business on the trail due to lack of skill.

We have so many other resources. Some of which you mentioned such as larger tires and winches that can get us out of sticky situations.

Here is my video a few years back on a very easy section of Holcomb Creek coming in from the West end. This idiot and his spotter had no business being on this trail. Just to the right of me was a perfect line for him to take. He thought otherwise and almost rolled his vehicle:

Both myself and Kaitlyn were blown away at their rudeness and disregard for safety. I had to cut the camera filming before it got ugly. They just about mowed down the young lady I was riding with.
I get it, it sucks when new people come into your turf and do things you think are not in keeping with how it should be, report them to park rangers and move on. That's all we can do. I usually repaired what I "messed up" if time permitted or we took care of it after exercises.

It's not anyone else' right to claim what level of experience someone else has or what trails they're limited to unless it is private property. On public lands you stay out of the way and leave it up to Darwin. Race clubs usually don't own the land and are just a collection of like-minded enthusiasts, no real weight there unless there is private land involved or a member is a park ranger.

Those new people will never learn how to find the line or improve their gas vs clutch/brake abilities unless they attempt the hard stuff, as the trail veteran you can either mentor, look on in horror/disgust, or walk away. When I trained new drivers, I took them into some of the worst conditions possible because I wasn't always going to be there with them to help get them out. I needed to know they would know what to do.

I personally do not understand the appeal of recording all these "obstacles", I usually want people far away from me and to leave me alone.
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