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What engine do you plan on getting?

What engine do you plan on getting?

  • 3.6 Pentstar

    Votes: 103 50.2%
  • 2.0 Turbo

    Votes: 30 14.6%
  • 3.0 Diesel

    Votes: 52 25.4%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 20 9.8%

  • Total voters
    205

The Great Grape Ape

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That's a really good point - for various reasons I'm getting the 3.6, but I'd love to test out the 2.0t someday.
Remember the 3.6L will get the BSG next year, but it’s not the rocket boost a lot of people think it’s going to be. It will help, but it’s still only a very quick and short bump (the effect is greatly reduced as engine speed increases). The likely power number is about 15KW (20HP) and about 75NM (55lbft) at start, and that’s just to improve on the front end during turbo-lag period. As RPMs increase the contribution falls off, where by about 1,500-2,000 RPM it’ll be pretty much all engine.

The big question remains, what’s the performance characteristics of the 2.0 down low vs later on? Power deliver Lag vs On-Boost duration.

Who knows; 5 years from now we'll see all the JL rock crawlers running the 2.0t with a bank of batteries and change the turbo for full boost at 1500 RPM. You never know :)
HMmm... I think just a well balanced hybrid will be better and that’s about the timeframe for it.
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foo.c

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Where are you getting your numbers, Gape?
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Where are you getting your numbers, Gape?
From the BSG suppliers. Typical is 8-15KW with lower for options that are closer to enhanced starters, and while there are ~20KW options, they aren’t usually found cramped into a tight engine bay. So I high-side the range @ 15KW. You can always add a KW or two if you want, but it’s not about to be a huge jump of more truer hybrids in the 50+ KW range.

Initial torque from static is going to be a higher raw number, but people will confuse that as a boost, and think they can just add it to engine torque and get an extra 200NM throughout instead of the first 0.2 seconds, it doesn’t work that way.

Plus you can add belt loss and slippage to the equation vs an in-line solution.

So again, this isn’t going to be a rocket boost, but everyone seems to keep confusing that as if this is going to be like a KERS system for the Wrangler, and challenge the 918 for 4WD hybrid dominance, especially with its 368HP tinyturbo4. ;)

What it will do, is help make any reduce any perceived turbo-lag (regardless of how small or big) & ESS impact less noticeable, which for me is worth the price of admission when they add it to the 3.6L next year.
 

Rubi

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You're not accounting for the BSG in the Hurricane. It will feel like a bigger engine than it is because of that instant application of torque from the electric motor.
It’s also too new for me; I’ll let the technology prove itself for a year or so. Look at all the Pentastar problems in ‘12 that we had; I owned a Rubicon with the infamous bad casting head.
 

foo.c

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I used to have manual trans Bronco from before there were clutch safety switches. That thing would break your neck if you forgot to put it in neutral. I think the torque will be substantial but for very short periods.
 

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BillyHW

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From the BSG suppliers. Typical is 8-15KW with lower for options that are closer to enhanced starters, and while there are ~20KW options, they aren’t usually found cramped into a tight engine bay. So I high-side the range @ 15KW. You can always add a KW or two if you want, but it’s not about to be a huge jump of more truer hybrids in the 50+ KW range.

Initial torque from static is going to be a higher raw number, but people will confuse that as a boost, and think they can just add it to engine torque and get an extra 200NM throughout instead of the first 0.2 seconds, it doesn’t work that way.

Plus you can add belt loss and slippage to the equation vs an in-line solution.

So again, this isn’t going to be a rocket boost, but everyone seems to keep confusing that as if this is going to be like a KERS system for the Wrangler, and challenge the 918 for 4WD hybrid dominance, especially with its 368HP tinyturbo4. ;)

What it will do, is help make any reduce any perceived turbo-lag (regardless of how small or big) & ESS impact less noticeable, which for me is worth the price of admission when they add it to the 3.6L next year.
So why are you not planning on disabling ESS? Just curious...
 

The Great Grape Ape

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So why are you not planning on disabling ESS? Just curious...
I am still hoping there will be an easy disable like the BMW, or an EVIC option, but past Jeep history is not good for that.
More importantly I am waiting for the Selec-Trac anyways and the MY cross-over from 2018-19, so they all seem to be arriving around the same time, so might as well wait for/get the BSG.

But it is a minor concern/option either way. If it came down to Selec-Trac in 6 months and BSG in 12 months, then would getting just ST shortly after 6mths, but if it’s all close, then ST+BSG seems like a good choice. It should help in traffic, which I still have to deal with that for about 30mins a day, so might as well.
 

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From the BSG suppliers. Typical is 8-15KW with lower for options that are closer to enhanced starters, and while there are ~20KW options, they aren’t usually found cramped into a tight engine bay. So I high-side the range @ 15KW. You can always add a KW or two if you want, but it’s not about to be a huge jump of more truer hybrids in the 50+ KW range.

Initial torque from static is going to be a higher raw number, but people will confuse that as a boost, and think they can just add it to engine torque and get an extra 200NM throughout instead of the first 0.2 seconds, it doesn’t work that way.

Plus you can add belt loss and slippage to the equation vs an in-line solution.

So again, this isn’t going to be a rocket boost, but everyone seems to keep confusing that as if this is going to be like a KERS system for the Wrangler, and challenge the 918 for 4WD hybrid dominance, especially with its 368HP tinyturbo4. ;)

What it will do, is help make any reduce any perceived turbo-lag (regardless of how small or big) & ESS impact less noticeable, which for me is worth the price of admission when they add it to the 3.6L next year.
So what is the likely size and weight of the BSG?
 

SpyDJeep

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Cant get over the power difference between my 3.6 & 3.8, the 3.6 is plenty fine for me for my usage. I lost interest in the diesel after driving the 3.6 so not worth the added cost for me.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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So what is the likely size and weight of the BSG?
Usually about 15+ lbs for the BSG itself, and a few pounds for the belt and pulley system, and then a converter and added wiring that’s a few more pounds (10-20+ depending on locations, etc), 48V battery would be much more than all that, but how much depends on capacity, other support systems (cooling, battery warmers, etc) also require a few more pounds but again depends on design.

For the 2016 Chevy Silverado, in total it’s 100lbs for the 13HP (10KW) / 44lbft (60NM) 0.45KWhr model they use.
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/che...ws/us/en/2016/feb/0225-silverado-eAssist.html

Size of the BSG varies, but a typical 12KW one would be about 20cm/8in in diameter and depth, an enhanced starter 5KW or less would still be about as long but maybe just over half the diameter, bigger BSGs are usually a slight bit larger diameter but a fair bit longer, very big ones can be over a foot long and almost as tall/wide.
 

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BillyHW

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Usually about 15+ lbs for the BSG itself, and a few pounds for the belt and pulley system, and then a converter and added wiring that’s a few more pounds (10-20+ depending on locations, etc), 48V battery would be much more than all that, but how much depends on capacity, other support systems (cooling, battery warmers, etc) also require a few more pounds but again depends on design.

For the 2016 Chevy Silverado, in total it’s 100lbs for the 13HP (10KW) / 44lbft (60NM) 0.45KWhr model they use.
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/che...ws/us/en/2016/feb/0225-silverado-eAssist.html

Size of the BSG varies, but a typical 12KW one would be about 20cm/8in in diameter and depth, an enhanced starter 5KW or less would still be about as long but maybe just over half the diameter, bigger ones are usually a slight bit larger diameter but a fair bit longer, very big ones can be over a foot long and almost as tall/wide.
They sound pretty big, is that with or without the battery? How do you make room in an already crowded engine bay for a cubic foot of extra stuff? And I don't think losing a 100 lbs of payload in a vehicle that already isn't oozing with payload capacity is a small deal.

Also does the 2018 V6 without the BSG still have the 48V battery for the ESS? The manual still specifies "battery coolant" for the pentastar.
 

BillyHW

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Usually about 15+ lbs for the BSG itself, and a few pounds for the belt and pulley system, and then a converter and added wiring that’s a few more pounds (10-20+ depending on locations, etc), 48V battery would be much more than all that, but how much depends on capacity, other support systems (cooling, battery warmers, etc) also require a few more pounds but again depends on design.

For the 2016 Chevy Silverado, in total it’s 100lbs for the 13HP (10KW) / 44lbft (60NM) 0.45KWhr model they use.
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/che...ws/us/en/2016/feb/0225-silverado-eAssist.html

Size of the BSG varies, but a typical 12KW one would be about 20cm/8in in diameter and depth, an enhanced starter 5KW or less would still be about as long but maybe just over half the diameter, bigger BSGs are usually a slight bit larger diameter but a fair bit longer, very big ones can be over a foot long and almost as tall/wide.
Thanks for the Chevy article. Did they still make them for 2017 and 2018? Do people like it? Were there any reliability issues?

13 HP seems negligible, but I guess 44 lb*ft down low is a good thing.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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It’s tight, and there’s not a lot of room (but more than in the JK, so there’s that), but that’s also why I DON’T think it will be a big BSG, I think 15KW is optimistic, but I’m willing to high side the numbers (you can see mine are higher than GM’s) to illustrate likely how minor the impact will actually be.

They don’t need a 48V battery for n enhanced starter without boost capability, so just a few more robust 12V should be fine.

The loss of payload is relative, but I agree, for a vehicle kinda tight in that area that some people like Overlanders want more even mire payload not 100lbs less, it’s not a great tradeoff for minimal returns outside of bumper-to-bumper traffic.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Thanks for the Chevy article. Did they still make them for 2017 and 2018? Do people like it? Were there any reliability issues?

13 HP seems negligible, but I guess 44 lb*ft down low is a good thing.

Yes they still offer eAssist for 2018.

44lbft is great to get things started, but like I said before, remember that it’s efficacy diminishes as the RPMs climb, so that’s not 44lbft across the torque-curve/power-band, and I wouldn’t be suprised if technically that BSG is closer to 70+ lbft (100+ NM) for the very first instant of torque until about 0.1-0.2 seconds / ~200 RPM before the engine kicks in, but they likely quote a more conservative number, so as to not confuse people into thinking it’s always on-tap.
 

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Would the 48V battery contribute to a more robust interior electrical system for better handling electronics like laptops, or camping equipment like refrigerated coolers? Running winches, compressors?

I guess what I'm asking is if there are any other side benefits of having the BSG 48V battery.
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