what does the dealer REALLY pay? How are you finding this out?

Albertaktm

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I keep reading all these posts about so much off invoice pricing.

" Get 5% off invoice pricing"

What are they referring to?

From what I know:

1: Vehicles come from the factory with Sticker pricing on the window

2: Nobody but the Dealer Principle and General manager Really knows how
Much that dealer actually paid FCA for the unit.
( In my mind, THAT is invoice price)

3: dealers will pay a % interest to FCA while it sits in the lot unsold

4: Dealers receive separate kick backs ( not hold backs) from FCA once the unit
Has been sold. Irregardless of the deal to the customer

5: Dealers have a bonus structure with FCA in which if monthly sales quotas are
Met or exceeded, the kick back per unit will increase.

So basically, if a dealer has 20 nearly identical units on the lot, the amount they
Owe can be different for each one on any given day.

With that said, how does one determine "dealer cost"?



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Chocolate Thunder

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How much the dealer actually pays bottom line varies based on the factors you mentioned. Invoice price is the price the dealership is charged for the vehicle and options before any holdbacks, interest, bonuses, etc. It is a constant whereas those other items vary considerably, so that why it’s used for figuring percent below or above invoice.

How much the dealer actually ends up paying for the vehicle isn’t really relevant when figuring your price. “5% below invoice” is the same price for every vehicle at every dealership without getting into the weeds of advanced math of what a dealer is charged.
 
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Albertaktm

Albertaktm

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How much the dealer actually pays bottom line varies based on the factors you mentioned. Invoice price is the price the dealership is charged for the vehicle and options before any holdbacks, interest, bonuses, etc..

Ok, so a Jeep rolls onto the lot from FCA and the total price on the window sticker says $60,000. That is the sticker price. How do you determine the invoice price as you defined it above?
 

ptoemmes

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Is there a rough, at least, percent difference between MSRP and invoice perhaps even by model line moderate to fully optioned?

For example, 1) for a $58,000 well optioned Rubi, 2) a $55,000 well optioned Sahara?

So, that if someone gets a 10% deal off MSRP (that does not include destination BTW) one could estimate that is some percent off invoice?

Have no link, but I think I read in this forum the other day that Tread Lightly gets you 1% below invoice AND get's the dealer that same 1% "kickback". What is that 1% off invoice in terms of percent off MSRP about for 1) Rubi above and 2) Sahara above?

I know there are a lot of depends so just looking for a "fuzzy" average - not precision - if that of any value.
 

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richardya

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If you look in this section of the forums there is a stickied thread (at the top) called interactive pricing. There is an excel spread sheet and it has two columns. The second column is the base price and options that go into the MSRP and there is a corresponding column with prices that go into the invoice price.

There is no excel sheet for 2020 that I saw but supposedly its somewhere online.
 

ptoemmes

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Ok, so a Jeep rolls onto the lot from FCA and the total price on the window sticker says $60,000. That is the sticker price. How do you determine the invoice price as you defined it above?
In my experience you can 1) ask the dealer especially if you are going to use something like Tread Lightly (and they will play) or 2) use Edmunds, KBB, etc to build your unit and it will show you MSRP and invoice. Generally they will be accurate except for newer "editions" like the Recon - though the sources might catch up in time.

Anecdotal story for my wife's 2020 Ford Mustang. We used X plan via the Mustang Club of America on a very special order GT convertible. During the negotiations, the dealer showed us the invoice and X plan pricing as well as MSRP. Actually, once I have my X plan number I could log into Ford pricing and build the vehicle at X plan price. It would be nice if the FCS online configurator recognized the (Tread Lightly) affiliate code and priced the build accordingly like Ford. All of the prices lined up very close to the internet sources - way less than $100.00 variance.
 
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Albertaktm

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If you look in this section of the forums there is a stickied thread (at the top) called interactive pricing. There is an excel spread sheet and it has two columns. The second column is the base price and options that go into the MSRP and there is a corresponding column with prices that go into the invoice price.

There is no excel sheet for 2020 that I saw but supposedly its somewhere online.
'I saw all those sticky's and Edmunds sites ect. I believe those are just averages and educated guesses.

A Jeep arrives from the plant to the dealer. On the window is a build sheet with the sticker price or MSRP. The dealer that day gets an invoice from FCA for that VIN. That to me is the dealer invoice for that unit . I do not believe that information is shared. Only guessed at. Dealers will have sales featuring Pay Invoice Pricing. That to me is marketing hype.

It's up to the consumer to do the research on the numbers in their area, compare and then get the best deal they can on that specific VIN on that specific day.
 
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Albertaktm

Albertaktm

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In my experience you can 1) ask the dealer especially if you are going to use something like Tread Lightly (and they will play) or 2) use Edmunds, KBB, etc to build your unit and it will show you MSRP and invoice. Generally they will be accurate except for newer "editions" like the Recon - though the sources might catch up in time.

Anecdotal story for my wife's 2020 Ford Mustang. We used X plan via the Mustang Club of America on a very special order GT convertible. During the negotiations, the dealer showed us the invoice and X plan pricing as well as MSRP. Actually, once I have my X plan number I could log into Ford pricing and build the vehicle at X plan price. It would be nice if the FCS online configurator recognized the (Tread Lightly) affiliate code and priced the build accordingly like Ford. All of the prices lined up very close to the internet sources - way less than $100.00 variance.
We don't have any programs like Tread Lightly here in Canada because nobody treads lightly! In 35 years of buying new vehicles here, I have never heard of a dealer offering up an honest factory invoice. Marketing gimmicks? All the time but never their true original cost.
Once again, there are many factors that make up what a dealer is willing to sell you a unit for on said buying day.

When in doubt, start with a low ball offer then walk toward the door! I'd never low ball on a private sale but car salesman are a different cat!
 

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Canadian Jeep dealers discount differently than USA Jeep dealers. We don't get prices below invoice. From what I've seen the best price you can get here is Canadian invoice or $500 above. I'm guessing that this is because of our current exchange rate, but I could be wrong.

I'm in Edmonton and just ordered my JLUR three weeks ago and got invoice+$500. The 2019 Canadian order guide posted somewhere on here was fairly close to the invoice pricing the dealer showed. We haven't had a 2020 order guide posted yet. I also got an invoice report from unhaggle before I went in to buy and it was within dollars of what the dealer showed. Converting my order into US$ I'm getting about 13% below US invoice, so I feel that's a good deal.
 
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Albertaktm

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Canadian Jeep dealers discount differently than USA Jeep dealers. We don't get prices below invoice. From what I've seen the best price you can get here is Canadian invoice or $500 above. I'm guessing that this is because of our current exchange rate, but I could be wrong.

I'm in Edmonton and just ordered my JLUR three weeks ago and got invoice+$500. The 2019 Canadian order guide posted somewhere on here was fairly close to the invoice pricing the dealer showed. We haven't had a 2020 order guide posted yet. I also got an invoice report from unhaggle before I went in to buy and it was within dollars of what the dealer showed. Converting my order into US$ I'm getting about 13% below US invoice, so I feel that's a good deal.

I’m just outside of Edmonton and will either be buying in Edmonton or Calgary. Care to share which dealer actually showed you their invoice cost? Plus your buying experience. Pm if you feel the need
 

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I keep reading all these posts about so much off invoice pricing.

" Get 5% off invoice pricing"

What are they referring to?

From what I know:

1: Vehicles come from the factory with Sticker pricing on the window

2: Nobody but the Dealer Principle and General manager Really knows how
Much that dealer actually paid FCA for the unit.
( In my mind, THAT is invoice price)

3: dealers will pay a % interest to FCA while it sits in the lot unsold

4: Dealers receive separate kick backs ( not hold backs) from FCA once the unit
Has been sold. Irregardless of the deal to the customer

5: Dealers have a bonus structure with FCA in which if monthly sales quotas are
Met or exceeded, the kick back per unit will increase.

So basically, if a dealer has 20 nearly identical units on the lot, the amount they
Owe can be different for each one on any given day.

With that said, how does one determine "dealer cost"?
An old man, I believe to be a wise old man (RIP), told me once: "Don't count other people's money".
 

agarber5687

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'I saw all those sticky's and Edmunds sites ect. I believe those are just averages and educated guesses.

A Jeep arrives from the plant to the dealer. On the window is a build sheet with the sticker price or MSRP. The dealer that day gets an invoice from FCA for that VIN. That to me is the dealer invoice for that unit . I do not believe that information is shared. Only guessed at. Dealers will have sales featuring Pay Invoice Pricing. That to me is marketing hype.

It's up to the consumer to do the research on the numbers in their area, compare and then get the best deal they can on that specific VIN on that specific day.
I see what you are saying, but the “invoice” number many use here to calculate if a deal is good or not, is not a guess. It is a specific number shown on the build sheet, and every dealer I shopped, produced this order form and number when I asked.

It is the FWP value shown on the attached custom build order sheet.

947BB3C7-FEC6-41A8-850A-F9FC258E681D.jpeg
 
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Albertaktm

Albertaktm

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There you go. Question answered. No dealer here in Canada will show you that sheet.
I also noticed the Dual top group. The full retail here in Canada is $1,400. And that’s our funny money !
 

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Most dealers will show you the invoice. Years ago they got smart and worked with the car manufacturers to help them out so they all didn’t go under. When KBB first started posting the invoice folks would go in and basically say I will give you $100 over invoice and truly to the dealer it was $100 profit. They can’t live on that. It was how most would shop.

Fast forward to now and while the invoice is that then the manufacturers do “rebates” and such over the entire inventory so it can’t be tracked or tied to one specific vin on the lot. This is now how dealers will sell you below invoice because they know what it takes to keep the lights on and make a profit. Those profit margins will be all over the board so that is why you still need to shop around as not all will match each deal. I have bought lots of cars and find that just because they are a huge volume dealer doesn’t always mean the best price. Some of those big dealers are part of a huge company I.e. Autonation and many of them don’t really care about customer loyalty or customers for life. They know that a sucker will still come in and buy a car at MSRP and they like that.
 

                           
























































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