Water-crossings: how to start a stalled manual transmission w/o clutch?

UncleJimmy

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Hello,

I am trying to decide on a manual or auto transmission for a new JLU. I have a strong preference for manual transmissions and will be using the vehicle in remote locations where traditionally manual transmissions have certain advantages. I'm concerned about the push-start, ESS and all the newer electronics generally. My questions are:

1. If you stall a manual during water fording (or deep, soupy mud) traditionally you could turn the key with the clutch disengaged to start the vehicle in gear in order to prevent water ingress into the clutch assembly, is this still possible with the new design?
2. Can you still push start the vehicle with a dead battery? I have read here some discussions that it could be done in reverse only??
3.Can you use the starter motor to move the vehicle during an emergency while it's in gear (is there a way to bypass the clutch safety switch)?
4. Lastly, are there any drastic mods that allow you to replace the starter button with a traditional turn-key ignition?

Thank you for your replies in advance.
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pablo_max3045

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Serious question.. Do you really plan on making so many deep water crossings?
If that is really a worry, then perhaps a raised air intake would be more appropriate to alleviate your nervousness with respect to stalling out.
I thing nearly all new cars and trucks will not allow you to start it without the clutch pressed in. Why would it be an issue to press the clutch though? You could still put it into neutral and then press the clutch.

You can press the button if the battery is dead, but nothing will happen. ;) I believe there is an emergency release cord in front of the transmission shift lever. I guess you can also just put the transfer case into neutral and then it doesnt matter what the tranny is doing. No doubt you have gone down to your buddies Jeep on a smoke break at work to pop his t-case into N to mess with him. ;)

It is very unlikely you could replace PTS with a traditional key. At least not in a way which a person could afford. The system is fully integrated. You would need a code re-write.

PTS has been around for a long time. It is mature tech. It is far less likely to break as well given that there are no moving parts. It is not something that is really worth worrying about in my personal opinion. It's like any other change in life. After a while, it becomes normal and you wonder why you ever did it differently. I noticed that only in the last couple of days I stopped reaching for the key on the steering column when I get home.
 
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UncleJimmy

UncleJimmy

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Thanks for the reply. The short answer is yes I do plan on it. Out west we have lots of snow melt this year and water crossing will be common to get anywhere on some trails, and it doesn't have to be that deep, only the depth of the clutch/transmission. Not to mention mud and muddy water crossings are also quite common:


A snorkel is for the engine to breath and has no effect on the clutch or the trans, differentials and transfer case which have their own breathers to keep moisture out of the gear oil.

In researching this topic on this forum last night, one user reported something like $3-$4 thousand dollar repair bill for muddy water getting into the clutch assembly.

The clutch safety mechanism was engineered on earlier wranglers to be able to be bypassed easily in order to use the starter motor to move the vehicle in emergency situations such as a stall on a dangerous, uphill obstacle, stuck on train-tracks or an intersection or stalled in water/mud etc. etc.

 
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UncleJimmy

UncleJimmy

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Usually you'll want to be in 4-HI with traction control off for mud though, to spin the tires. Good to know about 4-L though.
 

intentsrig

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I remember reading about changes with the JL manual trans regarding water crossings..the main thing being something to do with the transmission itself.

With the Jk shifting while crossing allowed water to enter. And the JL might be sealed but I can’t find the article and don’t know for sure. I also am unsure if the trans has an extended breather

I know the transfer case does not have an extended breather so that should be something to consider as well.

I have only done one crossing and used 4lo 2nd gear or maybe 3rd. It was fairly deep. Went over my bumper and I’m on 37’s with 3” lift. So we’ll within the factory limit.
 
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UncleJimmy

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Ok good to know. Yeah, extending the breathers is always a good idea for the diffs/transfercase/auto trans. I haven't heard about a sealed manual transmission on the JLs but I just started researching it. Thanks.
 

JIMBOX

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I think you guys are mixing APPLES.ORANGES--

Many Decades ago it was found that by depressing the clutch(change gears) while in a stream/mud/beer----by depressing the clutch pedal, you're EXPOSING THE CLUTCH DISC/CONTAMINATION and destroying the CLUTCH DISC MATERIAL !!

The clutch has nothing to do with the transmission's water seal capability--

I know that JEEP says the JL can take 30" of water depth ?????

What the HEY !

W.E.

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Northeastbst

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Hello,

I am trying to decide on a manual or auto transmission for a new JLU. I have a strong preference for manual transmissions and will be using the vehicle in remote locations where traditionally manual transmissions have certain advantages. I'm concerned about the push-start, ESS and all the newer electronics generally. My questions are:

1. If you stall a manual during water fording (or deep, soupy mud) traditionally you could turn the key with the clutch disengaged to start the vehicle in gear in order to prevent water ingress into the clutch assembly, is this still possible with the new design?
2. Can you still push start the vehicle with a dead battery? I have read here some discussions that it could be done in reverse only??
3.Can you use the starter motor to move the vehicle during an emergency while it's in gear (is there a way to bypass the clutch safety switch)?
4. Lastly, are there any drastic mods that allow you to replace the starter button with a traditional turn-key ignition?

Thank you for your replies in advance.
Buy a boat, save a Jeep!!
 

Badweissenbier

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In 4low, the clutch safety switch should be disabled in the JL. Leave it in gear and restart the motor.
It does not , that was possible on older models, The Jl will not. I have tried
 
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UncleJimmy

UncleJimmy

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I think you guys are mixing APPLES.ORANGES--

Many Decades ago it was found that by depressing the clutch(change gears) while in a stream/mud/beer----by depressing the clutch pedal, you're EXPOSING THE CLUTCH DISC/CONTAMINATION and destroying the CLUTCH DISC MATERIAL !!

The clutch has nothing to do with the transmission's water seal capability--

I know that JEEP says the JL can take 30" of water depth ?????

What the HEY !

W.E.

JIMBO
So what do you do if you stall in water? Do you know of any mods that address this?
 

JIMBOX

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well, I'm not sure--since it's never happened to me--and shouldn't you, but--

If you're in shallow stream(less than 18"--go ahead and use the clutch--Like I said before JEEP says that the JL can ford 30" of water--OK

Now I don't know if those ENGINEMANUERS have allowed for clutch use---or not

Just don't stall the S.O.B.--

Good luck

JIMBO
 
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UncleJimmy

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s
well, I'm not sure--since it's never happened to me--and shouldn't you, but--

If you're in shallow stream(less than 18"--go ahead and use the clutch--Like I said before JEEP says that the JL can ford 30" of water--OK

Now I don't know if those ENGINEMANUERS have allowed for clutch use---or not

Just don't stall the S.O.B.-

Good luck

JIMBO
Just read the 2018 online owner's manual and it says inspect clutch vents after off-roading and flush if you suspect water entering. But a flush won't do you good in muddy water (which is probably more common) if you get dirt/debris inside. I hear you, no one wants to stall, but especially Sports/Sharahs with bigger tires and lower gearing/crawl ratio, it's not that hard or uncommon to stall in mud or if you are fording a stream and hit a rock unseen.
 
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UncleJimmy

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It does not , that was possible on older models, The Jl will not. I have tried
I just read this on another forum. If you have time, can you verify this process works (allows override of clutch safety) in 4L?

https://www.wranglerforum.com/f1082/psa-how-to-use-clutch-interlock-bypass-2351849.html

Also on page 294 of the 2018 owner's manual it says:

"Four-Wheel Drive Models Only In 4L mode, this vehicle will start regardless of whether or not the clutch pedal is pressed to the floor. This feature enhances off-road performance by allowing the vehicle to start when in 4L without having to press the clutch pedal. The “4WD Low Indicator Light” will illuminate when the transfer case has been shifted into this mode."

https://cdn.dealereprocess.org/cdn/servicemanuals/jeep/2018-wrangler.pdf
 

JIMBOX

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Well that's good info, but now there's an argument--earlier in post #10--Badweissenable says it doesn't work--

I can't check--NOW--because I'm in CALIF. and my jeep/manual AIN'T WITH ME--BUT

Besides that, a lot of trail crawling is also in 4hi----so that "CLUTCH SAFTY SWITH" won't apply--

like I said before 18" of water or less--go ahead, use the clutch--and/or--DON'T STALL !!!

W.E.

JIMBO
 
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