Warranty Heads Up. Not Always Dealers Fault

jeepingib

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But what about all the Tacoma owners that say Jeeps are junk and Toyotas are the most reliable off-road rigs you can buy? I guess this study is fake news to them?
Initial quality is such a bullshit thing. It's asking customers who recently purchased a new vehicle to rate the quality of the product they just purchased. So it's all subjective data with no quantitative points to measure against.
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ReimundKrohn

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I used to work for a Ford dealer - as a Service Advisor. We had an owner / GM with anger management issues, a guy who also liked to play fast and loose with FoMoCo on warranties. He forced our Service Manager (by forced I mean, through sheer intimidation and verbal abuse) to throw away his career by falsifying warranty claims to up acceptance. We got audited, and the Service Manager got thrown under the bus. He had been working with Ford for almost 15 years at that point; he came from a dealer in another city. Not only did he lose his job, he got black listed by Ford.

Warranty is intended to cover a manufacturers defect. Full stop. Only in North America are folks convinced a warranty is an insurance policy. It ain’t. If the manufacturer didn’t sell you a defective vehicle and it breaks, there are a lot of potential reasons why, none of which are warrantable.
 

gato

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It starts with Jeep - their reimbursement rates and time allowance for warranty work are simply horrible. The only dealers that want to get warranty work are dealers that don't have enough private pay business. The others simply endure warranty work to make customers happy and hopefully get non-warranty work from them in the future or sell them other cars/upgrades.

As for the dealers, I have an awesome relationship with my local Chevy dealer and my local Jeep dealer. Yes, they make mistakes sometimes, but we work it out. My chevy is a track car. My Jeep is a rock crawling toy.

I'm very upfront with them. When I show up for warranty work on my Jeep I tell them upfront - If any aftermarket parts are involved, I'll pay shop rates to have them removed/reinstalled for warranty work to proceed. Has worked with Ford dealers, Chevy dealers and Jeep dealers. Funny thing is, they don't even charge me for it most times. The attitude alone is all it takes for them to feel comfortable working with you.

There are asshole dealers and asshole customers alike.
 

ReimundKrohn

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Yup. There is a right way and a wrong way to deliver news to the customer.

Most Jeep dealer are too busy to even try, so they default to "asshole" mode.

My Jeep dealer makes up excuses that have NOTHING to do with the issue at hand just to get rid of me. I went in for a squeaky driver seat and they ridicule me with stuff like "that lift is not factory" or "those bumpers are not factory." The lift was Mopar and the steel bumpers came from the factory on my Recon.

But anyway, they are all a bunch of a-holes as far as I am concerned.
…On the other hand, I can tell you that a Service Department has to deal with nothing BUT angry people all day long, and giving someone bad news only escalates hostility.

No one comes into a Service shop happy to be spending money. Ever. Even preventative maintenance is thought of as a “necessary evil” at best. Spending your time in front of angry, hostile and suspicious customers, and see how easy it is to get those people to see reason.
 
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aldo98229

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But what about all the Tacoma owners that say Jeeps are junk and Toyotas are the most reliable off-road rigs you can buy? I guess this study is fake news to them?
IQS is not a good measure of long term reliability and durability. It is essentially a measure of quality as vehicles roll out of the showroom.

JD Power conducts a similar study among owners of 3-year-old vehicles that is intended to capture longer term reliability and durability; it is called the Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS). Below are the VDS rankings.

Toyota does much better on this one; FCA brands do considerably poorly. Having said that, CDJR brands have slowly been climbing up from the bottom over the past few years.

Honda reliability has been taking a beating in recent years. Not sure exactly what the issue is. I believe they have been skimping on investing in product quality and development, and is now coming back to bite them. I have friends who after owning Hondas for many years, had to do extensive repairs to their CR-Vs and Accords, and have moved on to other brands.

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aldo98229

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dlporter

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Initial quality is such a bullshit thing. It's asking customers who recently purchased a new vehicle to rate the quality of the product they just purchased. So it's all subjective data with no quantitative points to measure against.
I don’t disagree, but I also ride a harley and I hear the same low reliability comments about harleys all the time. Quantitatively, I’ve had three harleys over the last five years with about 60k miles combined on them and never had any of them in for anything other than routine maintenance. Hearing statements like that are a perfect example of confirmation bias.
 

AlgUSF

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The incompetence goes beyond the service department. I bought my wrangler with the hard top. A few weeks ago I picked up a used soft top from a local seller. The foam tape on one of the door surrounds was kind of worn out, so I wanted to replace it to make sure I get a good seal. There is a replacement part for it. I couldn’t find it on Amazon, and it was out of stock at quadratec. I went in to my local dealer and they wanted my vin to verify the parts. The guy at the counter told me that his computer told him that a soft top won’t fit on my Jeep. I pointed at my Jeep parked right outside the window with the soft top installed. All I got was the deer in the headlights look and a repeat of “my computer says the soft top won’t fit your Jeep.” I didn’t know how to respond to him after that.
Reminds me of my Tundra, I have a 2014 SR-5 and didn't like the steel 18's that came with it and got a set of takeoff 20's from a 1794. If I take it to a tire shop, they look at the label and tell me that the truck needs 18" tires. If you go to a "big box" they tell you that they can only install 18" tires on that truck because that is what the label says. I've told them, "Good luck fitting 18" tires on those wheels. Make sure to grab the tire stretcher". :)
 

rizzosmith

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I feel for you, man. I've been there and the feeling of helplessness sucks. I bought my Jeep at a dealership out of town to get a marginally better deal. The day after I got it home it started to overheat and the fan wasn't coming on at temp. The Jeep had 264 miles on it and the local dealership couldn't get my vehicle in for service for 3 days, with no loaner or service vehicle for the 3 days OR while it was in for warranty repairs. The problem was that a 6 or 8 pin connector had come unplugged (was never fully connected). They tried to charge me for the coolant needed to top off the system when it overheated, then pushed pretty hard for me to go ahead and service the transmission and diffs for another 350.

I told the guy to get bent, I won't be paying for anything (well, other than the 360 bucks to rent a car for 4 days). And to be honest, this wasn't much different from the average experience when trying have warranty repairs done.

Also... this is very important... you still have to be polite. Even if they don't deserve it and you don't particularly want to. I am always extremely polite, to the point that it seems kind of unbecoming.
It just seems like they hold all the cards and the customer has no recourse.
 

calemasters

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Before I type anything I want to say that this is not for bashing dealers, MOPAR, Stellantis, Salesman, or Service Writers. If you have a problem with any of them, start your own post.

I work for a GM/CDJR store, and have for 22 years. My JLUR has a 3.5 Metalcloak lift, Fox 2.5's and 37" Beadlocks. I knew doing all this stuff would cause some warranty issues. That being said Stellantis has all the control over warranty issues, not the dealer. They are a photo company. If something is broke the dealer has to send pictures of the part, and the vehicle in then they decide if it is warranty or not. Now, that's not for every part. If I come in with a broke driveshaft they have to send pictures, and it will not be covered because of the lift height and other things. Stellantis has said they will not warranty driveline parts if a vehicle has over a 2" lift. My guess it because that's the biggest they offer. While I do agree some of the rules suck it's not our fault. Just like my Jeep. I do maintenance by the book including diff, transmission, and engine oil. Probably go a little overboard actually, but that's just how I am. It does suck that someone who did no modifications can do something stupid and get it covered under warranty, but I can't because of lift. The reason for this is I see a lot of people bashing dealers and acting like it's our fault. Believe me, most dealers want warranty repair. It's how we make money. Yes customer pay is better, but something is better than nothing. At least that's how we are here. Unfortunately If they say they won't warranty it, there is nothing we can do to change there mind. Once we send pics in, and they deny the claim we are screwed. Then it's our fault, and we don't want to work on your Jeep and so on. GM, Ford, and many other manufacturers are the exact same way. Only difference is we drive the most modified vehicle made. 98% of all Wranglers have some accessory on them. Several Billion dollar a year industry for just Jeeps. I do see both sides, we pay X dollars for something and expect it to work. Now, if something electrical goes wrong I'm covered still, but not much as far as powertrain goes. Anyway, just wanted to say that it's not always our fault. I do my best to help everyone, but I can only do what's allowed. After that it's out of my hands.
I can understand a dealer and or manufacture denying warranty on a lifted vehicle. The lift changes the drive shaft angles and the angle of CV / U-joints through which torque is transmitted. The drive train loads change and vibration amplitude along the drive shaft changes in a manner that engineering has never tested, validated, certified or approved. Similarly, changing the ECM calibration, or installing a power adder can also affect the vehicle's powertrain from the engine, transmission, T-case, drive shafts and axles.

In the interest of customer satisfaction, I gave all my dealers the responsibility for making repair warranty decisions. The dealer had to be fair to the customer and to me. If a dealer made a bad decision, I would still pay the warranty claim ONE TIME. But I would have a heart to heart conversation with the service manager, and life would go on. The dealer could always call me if they had any questions or needed to collaborate. If the dealer made bad decision again, which was contrary to warranty policy, the service manager would lose the privilege of making warranty policy decisions on behalf of the dealer and the manufacturer.
 

aldo98229

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I doubt anyone would be surprised to hear the Jeeps aren’t the most reliable. Yet we still get our panties all tied up every time the topic comes up.

Survey results like those from JD Power don’t really say that Jeep reliability is poor. Although that’s what the headlines would like us to infer. What the results really say is that Jeep quality is less consistent than, say, that of Toyota.

By that interpretation, it means that you can own five Jeeps over a 25 year period and have a perfectly reliable experience. But it also means that, say, your cousin or neighbor is less likely to have the same trouble-free experience with Jeep that you had.
 

MEHillwalker80

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I don’t disagree, but I also ride a harley and I hear the same low reliability comments about harleys all the time. Quantitatively, I’ve had three harleys over the last five years with about 60k miles combined on them and never had any of them in for anything other than routine maintenance. Hearing statements like that are a perfect example of confirmation bias.
How about the AMF Harleys? That's where the bad rap came from. Too bad it is still around, Post AMF Harleys are fine, mostly.
 

JEEPIDON

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Thank you for sharing. Points well taken.

Having said that, my Jeep dealer is run by a bunch of assholes.
Is that why you're always getting so much shit from them? :CWL:
 
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