Verified: Engine Start-Stop (ESS) Standard on 3.6L Pentastar 2018 Wrangler Engine

[digitalbliss]

So based on the dealer screen shots it looks like ESS will only come on the Pentastar V6 and the Diesel V6 engines, but not on the 2.0L 4cyl Hurricane engine?

The 2.0L has BSG

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[Lee H Greidanus]

Just read article about how belt starter generator is part of mild hybrid options. was there previous mention of the wrangler moving to a 48v electrical system?

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Just read article about how belt starter generator is part of mild hybrid options. was there previous mention of the wrangler moving to a 48v electrical system?

Yes, but I think they are reading into it based on that previous mention/info.

I still think it's primarily ESS assist to combat the effect of constant start-up Turbo-lag in a heavy Wrangler more than any 'real hybrid' per se.

 

[Lucas718]

If you want to blame somebody, blame the EPA, not the manufacturers. After all, they are just trying to find ways to meet the ridiculous CAFE requirements that Obama threw into their faces.

I don't know about you guys, but I find myself sitting at red lights, sitting in fast food drive-thrus, etc. feeling money flying out of my wallet as my engine idles and I'm going nowhere. I personally think ESS technology is an excellent idea that makes common sense.

The issue that guys are wondering about is this: at 3% estimated improvement, that's actually LESS than 1 MPG gained. If those numbers are true, then is it worth the cost of different batteries, different starters, etc. which will all cost more to replace on down the road after warranty is expired?

This is what I was hoping someone would point out. A 3% gain in fuel economy on a vehicle that gets 20 mpg at best, works out to a 0.6 mpg improvement. If you have a 15 gallon tank (don't know what the JL has, but let's say 15) then that is an extra 9 miles per tank. Is that minimal gain worth the wear and tear of your engine stopping and starting 10 or more extra times a day? Hundreds of extra times a year? Thousands of extra times over the life of the vehicle? You could probably eek out an extra 9 miles per tank just by driving conservatively. It seems to me the risk of the wear and tear isn't worth such a negligible mpg gain.

 

[RonH]

Wait. I wanna hear more about this...

Google it...though not at work. In a nutshell...alcohol, nudity, body paint, repeat. Lived there for almost 10 yrs prior to moving out here in 2014...it's a blast...until you see a 70 yr old dude in nothing but an elephant trunk...

 

[Billy]

Google it...though not at work. In a nutshell...alcohol, nudity, body paint, repeat. Lived there for almost 10 yrs prior to moving out here in 2014...it's a blast...until you see a 70 yr old dude in nothing but an elephant trunk...

:cwl::cwl::cwl::cwl::cwl:

"Google it..." Oh, you better believe I did!

"it's a blast...until you see a 70 yr old dude in nothing but an elephant trunk..."

 

[Njsoulis]

:cwl::cwl::cwl::cwl::cwl:

"Google it..." Oh, you better believe I did!

"it's a blast...until you see a 70 yr old dude in nothing but an elephant trunk..."

I went down there on exercise, what a party...until you end up on the wrong side of the line...

 

[Ikari Warrior]

The 2.0L has BSG

Yes but why no ESS as well? Does ESS not work with BSG, or not needed when there's BSG?

 

[digitalbliss]

Yes but why no ESS as well? Does ESS not work with BSG, or not needed when there's BSG?

They both accomplish basically the same thing through different methods. ESS is just an electronic engine start/stop mechanism that uses "a high-speed/high-durability starter that reduces crank time, culminating in quicker restarts."

https://www.geotab.com/blog/start-stop-technology-quest-idling/

Enhanced Starter
The Enhanced Starter Start-Stop System consists of a modified starter motor to handle the strain of added starts on the engine compared to a conventional starter motor. The system also uses a modified generator for recuperation. The main advantage of this technology is the low cost of implementation (minimum changes are required in the vehicle design) but it typically suffers from rough restarts and slow response times (the engine has to be completely stopped before it is possible to turn it on again).

Bosch and Denso are the main provider of this technology and is commonly used in BMW Efficient Dynamics, FIAT and Alfa Romeo, Ford, Jaguar, Kia, Land Rover, Opel, Toyota and Volkswagen group (Volkswagen Blue Motion, Audi e and Skoda GreenLine) vehicles.

Belt Driven Starter Generator
The Belt Driven Starter Generator (BSG) system utilizes a different method to start the engine: a reversible alternator which also acts as an electric motor, in this case mimicking a starter motor. The BSG is integrated into the belt drive system of a conventional combustion engine in the same way a normal alternator is, as it has the same fixing points. The main difference with a standard belt drive system is the reinforcement of the belt tensioning, the BSG acts bidirectional on the belt to speed up the combustion engine during start-up.

For small engines a conventional starter is not needed while it is required for larger ones.

The main advantages of this solution, other than the moderate cost, are the smoother restarts provided and the capability to stop the combustion engine while the vehicle is still driving (up to 20 km/h for automatic and 8 km/h for manual).

Valeo has pioneered this technology, and today also Bosch and Denso have this type of solution. PSA (Peugeot and Citroen), Mercedes-Benz and Smart in Europe and GM in North America are the main manufacturers offering models featuring BSG solutions.

Recent developments have introduced the possibility to boost the engine during phases of acceleration, providing a micro-mild hybrid vehicle type.

 

[kidney]

Yes but why no ESS as well? Does ESS not work with BSG, or not needed when there's BSG?

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Yes but why no ESS as well? Does ESS not work with BSG, or not needed when there's BSG?

Just to be clear, for FCA in this case, ESS means Engine Stop/Start, and yes ESS works fine with a BSG, as that's a large reason it's there its to help with and smooth out the experience of stopping and re-starting the engine, as well as assisting to overcome inertia of a stop, it can offer additional feature beyond that too.

http://media.fcanorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?&id=15722

A Belt Starter Generator is one of the methids of mild electrification, there are others including those DigitalB listed which are adjascent to the drivetrain , and then there are options that are in-line andpart of the drivetrain either with an electric-assist motor inside the transmission or on or in-line with the driveshaft.

DB's examples are some of the methods of accomplishing this task, either with an enhanced starter (currently on Jeep Cherokee for example) which provides little to no assistance beyond the actually task of restarting the engine, and BSG which can go beyond just the restart, and actually help get the vehicle moving again, the level of which depends on the level which determines the type of contribution it can provide.

It's rare that ESS and BSG don't go together, so maybe FCA decided to shorten the description they just list BSG as the highest implemented tier of efficiency technologies, treating it similar to a trim level where you have Sport / Sahara has the Sport features plus ABC / Rubicon has Sahara trim levels plus XYZ ; so they simply shorten the description to BSG to assume that it has ESS plus 123.

Here's a quick grid to show the levels of some feature sets, and how they interact kinda like trim levels;
12V system = Current setup with upgraded starter / battery (in current export and new JL's Pentastar Wrangler)
12V + 12V = Micro Hybrid , primarily to improve starts and get the system going smoothly.
48V = Mild Hybrid, which not only ids in restart but provide more assistance in getting going and varying levels of acceleration / boost.
HV = Higher voltage full hybrid vehicles providing extended range and more power from the electric motor + battery.

 

[Billy]

Grape, you're like Ross Perot with all the charts & graphs...

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

To look forward past the current and near-term expected initial setups in the JL, it's interesting to see ZF-F modular Mild-Hybrid add-in module that is a different so of system that provides the functions similar to a BSG , but instead of being attached outside the the direct power-train it is in-line so should be more efficient, and effective, and have less system losses, from things like belt resistance or slippage in cold / wet weather, etc

It's also interesting that it can be added without taking up additional space in the engine bay, which is a good thing for the Wrangler.

This could be a a quick and easy update for the Pentastar depending on how long it stays, all without worrying about making space.

I'm not sure if they could add it to the high torque 8HP70 for the diesel, but that would be great, doubling down on torque delivery, and if it helps provide a better cold-start experience on the diesel might get me to tade-off the cold negatives for the Mild-Hybrid benefits.

https://www.zf.com/global/media/pro...brid_system/pdf_125/efficient_and_dynamic.pdf

To me the ZF modular system is the first step towards true Hybridization of the Wrangler, moving the focus past ESS starting assist to focusing more on actual propulsion.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Grape, you're like Ross Perot with all the charts & graphs...

Just makes it clearer when explaining detailed stuff simply.

Also, for the person just looking quickly over the thread they can skip all the text and get a quick gist of the discussion/idea without spending a lot of time reading.

 

[digitalbliss]

Just makes it clearly when explaining detailed stuff simply.

Also, for the person just looking quickly over the thread they can skip all the text and get a quick gist of the discussion/idea without spending a lot of time reading.

I do get ADD sometimes and go straight for the graphs and pictures...

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