sconrad24

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Has anyone tested going into e mode at the end of these trips using the m8 method? Do you get ~5 miles in e mode if its saying battery is at 10%?.... FWIW I cant wait to test myself once my 4xe gets here. Currently its siting in inspections. My office is 50 miles away. Theres a bunch of scenarios I want to test.
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Jocko

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I mean, it's abundantly clear that there are benefits of staying in M8 on the highway. My parents live about 60 miles away and I end up with about 10% left in charge when I stay on the highway with around 80-90% of the driving in M8.

This makes sense as the engine is in prime gas mileage mode and the battery doesn't have to do any real heavy lifting - just adding some oomph here and there when the road grade changes a bit.

Both the battery and ICE are in their "best" states in a way.
I agree with your overall logic. In fact this is exactly why I alway run e-save mode on the highway. I guess with this M8 mode approach, you're using somewhat more electricity on the highway than I would, since I would get off the highway with the same % charge as when I got on.

Clearly "M8" causes the 4xe to prioritize engine/battery usage in a way that differs from the Hybrid, Electric and E-Save modes. And that's cool because each one of those behavior patterns will be well suited to different driving scenarios. So "M8" seems to add another "tool to the toolbox" if you will.

That said, can we please put this "way more efficient" myth to bed? Looking at the original post, it is clear the change in MPG is simply due to a change is how MPG is being calculated:
  • In the hybrid screenshot, we see 61.4 miles of the trip was done on gas. If we divide that by the 22.9 mpg, we find that about 2.68 gallons of gas was used on the trip.
  • In the "M8" screenshot, we clearly see that the computer has simply counted all 82 miles as gas and gave no credit to electric. If we take 82 and divide that by the same 2.68 gallons of gas, we get 30.6. I think one can assume there are enough variables between the 2 trips explain to 30.6 vs. 31.6.
And so we end up with two very different numbers despite the fact that the same amount of gas and electricity was used both times.
 

REDSEAL199

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How much less gas did you use vs making that drive in Hybrid?
I tried this on Saturday and although the mileage was better I saw no gain in battery mileage. Personally I would think you would just cause premature wear on the tranny as it wants to hold it in M8 instead of downshifting like normal.
 

sconrad24

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Apologies for resurrecting. I just tried this method for a 40 mile, almost all highway trip. I mainly did it so that my engine didn’t start in the middle of the highway in 40 degrees. I was in manual mode the whole time with about 18 miles in range (~75%)when I started. I finished with 6 miles range and 20% left. Its pretty interesting, seems like there’s a constant draw of 6-13 kws, engine draw was in the 20s and 30s. Now the ride back I was in normal hybrid. Both rides used about an eighth of a tank. I guess it’s a wash. One choice gives no engine use for whatever range then normal use the rest. The other choice is less engine use for the whole time it is running.
 

SilverBackJLCA

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This is what I am typically getting on my morning commute. Not really traffic, but congestion where it would be rare to go above 55mph. I am averaging around 37mpg on a 85 mile commute. Morning commutes are mostly down hill, while on my way home is mostly up hill and I am still pulling almost 27 electric miles on my commute home. I am going to try the M8 method on my commute home and see what I can get with it.
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IMG_4903.jpg
 

CJ SCION

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It may very well be a wash using M8 or D in hybrid mode. One benefit of using M8 to us 4 seasons dwellers is that ice does all the cabin heating with no drain on the battery during cold weather driving.

Now I am wondering if there is an AC compressor that gets driven from electric and/or ice. Brandon has a youtube video on the electric AC. He does not state anything about an ice driven AC compressor.

 

sconrad24

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This is what I am typically getting on my morning commute. Not really traffic, but congestion where it would be rare to go above 55mph. I am averaging around 37mpg on a 85 mile commute. Morning commutes are mostly down hill, while on my way home is mostly up hill and I am still pulling almost 27 electric miles on my commute home. I am going to try the M8 method on my commute home and see what I can get with it.
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IMG_4903.jpg
Just heads up m8 will log all of your miles under hybrid. But it will be interesting how much range it will say you have at the end. I did it for my 50 mile drive into the office this morning until I got off the highway (after 45 miles or so). I had maybe 12 or 13 miles left at that point, then did the rest of the way in d hybrid.
 

Grimmjpr

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It may very well be a wash using M8 or D in hybrid mode. One benefit of using M8 to us 4 seasons dwellers is that ice does all the cabin heating with no drain on the battery during cold weather driving.

Now I am wondering if there is an AC compressor that gets driven from electric and/or ice. Brandon has a youtube video on the electric AC. He does not state anything about an ice driven AC compressor.

The AC compressor operates off of the high voltage battery.
 

SilverBackJLCA

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Just heads up m8 will log all of your miles under hybrid. But it will be interesting how much range it will say you have at the end. I did it for my 50 mile drive into the office this morning until I got off the highway (after 45 miles or so). I had maybe 12 or 13 miles left at that point, then did the rest of the way in d hybrid.
So I tried it today and I kind of did the same thing as you and my trip info screen read 22.6 electric and 23.3 ICE. I don't really have a negative or a positive opinion of it, its ok. I'm going on a couple trips next month, I think this would be good for that. I almost got 1000 miles on my first tank with my regular commute, so I am sticking to that.

One thing I did differently though is while it was in manual I put it in E-save mode with the battery charging selection. The battery seemed to charge quicker than in E-save auto and the MPG calculator barely moved. On the commute home, the mpg calculator was at 35.8 and I when I got home I was at 36.4 I did E-Save manual first half of the commute then electric mode on the other half.
 

sconrad24

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So I tried it today and I kind of did the same thing as you and my trip info screen read 22.6 electric and 23.3 ICE. I don't really have a negative or a positive opinion of it, its ok. I'm going on a couple trips next month, I think this would be good for that. I almost got 1000 miles on my first tank with my regular commute, so I am sticking to that.

One thing I did differently though is while it was in manual I put it in E-save mode with the battery charging selection. The battery seemed to charge quicker than in E-save auto and the MPG calculator barely moved. On the commute home, the mpg calculator was at 35.8 and I when I got home I was at 36.4 I did E-Save manual first half of the commute then electric mode on the other half.
The original post was about tricking hybrid mode to run the ice and electric motor together instead of depleting the battery first. Which does happen by putting it in manual. I don’t think there’s much benefit to the other modes in manual, just a matter of preference for them.
 

SilverBackJLCA

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The original post was about tricking hybrid mode to run the ice and electric motor together instead of depleting the battery first. Which does happen by putting it in manual. I don’t think there’s much benefit to the other modes in manual, just a matter of preference for them.

Ya that is what it does, but I do not see how it is more efficient running that way. The OP mentions .24c per k/w and that being more expensive then gas. Not everyone pays that per kw and it is just running the ICE more on a commute.

If we are talking about benefits, you are not getting more MPG in manual w/ hybrid, on 50 -80 mile commute. At least I am not. so I do not see what the benefit is, unless you are in an area where charging is expensive.

For longer road trips, it would probably make sense.
 

sconrad24

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Ya that is what it does, but I do not see how it is more efficient running that way. The OP mentions .24c per k/w and that being more expensive then gas. Not everyone pays that per kw and it is just running the ICE more on a commute.

If we are talking about benefits, you are not getting more MPG in manual w/ hybrid, on 50 -80 mile commute. At least I am not. so I do not see what the benefit is, unless you are in an area where charging is expensive.

For longer road trips, it would probably make sense.
With my results, I had trouble picturing it in my mind so I put everything into excel. For me, I used my app calculated mpg for the ICE engine (using hybrid to hybrid miles each fill-up) and my total miles mpg from the computer since my mileage was flat the few times I tried this m8. I used these numbers to get the gallons used for each trip scenario. I broke it up into distances of 50, 60, 70, 80, and 100 (my total work commute out of curiosity). For each distance the results were that normal d hybrid used less gas. It is always better to get the 28 miles without the ICE running and then the rest with the normal mileage. But the results were so close it was probably inconclusive, a quarter of a gallon at most for the shortest distances. Some traffic or weather event would be enough to change it in favor of the other. Now as drives got longer it got closer (logically it makes sense, 28 miles is a smaller and smaller % of the drive). But the OP said it eventually depletes the battery around 80 miles. I also put in the OP's results and it did benefit him. Its about a quarter of a gallon for m8. But he is getting worse electric range then me (21 vs 28). YMMV
 

cball508

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I pay an insane electric rate. This has helped me a lot. Even with 37s and a lift I can still average 25 mpg. But, I'm not charging as often as I would running the vehicle in hybrid mode. I was able to stretch my charging times out to every 2.5-3 days instead of daily. So for me even with high gas prices (3.25) gas is still cheaper than electric

Screenshot_20211109-084018_ChargePoint.jpg
 

sconrad24

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I pay an insane electric rate. This has helped me a lot. Even with 37s and a lift I can still average 25 mpg. But, I'm not charging as often as I would running the vehicle in hybrid mode. I was able to stretch my charging times out to every 2.5-3 days instead of daily. So for me even with high gas prices (3.25) gas is still cheaper than electric

Screenshot_20211109-084018_ChargePoint.jpg
For your situation, I think youd be more interested in miles per charge not mpg. I'd have to really think how to isolate that number from the m8 method. I guess you'd have to calculate how much gas you use in each method. Whichever method uses more gas would be best for you. I think though you'd be best served by using e save and choosing electric for times where you are under 45 or even stop and go traffic. Anything to maximize your range per charge.
 

Jocko

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I pay an insane electric rate. This has helped me a lot. Even with 37s and a lift I can still average 25 mpg. But, I'm not charging as often as I would running the vehicle in hybrid mode. I was able to stretch my charging times out to every 2.5-3 days instead of daily. So for me even with high gas prices (3.25) gas is still cheaper than electric
I'm right there with you! Love those MA national grid rates! :facepalm:

I get about 22 miles per charge and that's more than a gallon of gas's worth of mileage around town. Especially with a heavy foot. So I figure the cost of charging the 15kwh is roughly break-even with the amount of gas that would get me 22 miles. Given the convenience of charging at home and how much I ended up enjoying driving in electric mode, I decided to just go all electric off highway and use esave on the highway.

Maybe someday MA will actually approve off peak rates...
 
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