REDSEAL199

Well-Known Member
First Name
Beau
Joined
May 11, 2021
Messages
60
Reaction score
35
Location
MO
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Unlimited Highaltitude 4xe
I'm not sure how an escape works but I've had multiple hybrid and phev in my house and the way they operate is both systems running at the same time maximizing efficiency. So for example the gas engine is on at 50% power and electric 50% and those % go up and down based on how you are driving.

Whereas on 4xe the hybrid mode is all electric first and then once depleted it switches to gas. While gas is "available" if you punch it, it's not used unless needed.

We know if we have a 100 mile trip that no matter the speed we go at, the battery will be depleted after the first 25 miles and when the trip is over the battery is at 0%. Whereas any other hybrid I could make a 100 mile trip and reasonably expect there could be 10% battery left.

That's why this thread is so facinating because if we drive in M8 then the system finally acts as a true hybrid and we can maximize battery efficiency
Ive not tried this M8 deal yet. When you do it do you have to manually shift it the entire time?
Advertisement

 

LJ_3M121318

Well-Known Member
First Name
LJ
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
313
Reaction score
187
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicle(s)
2021 4xe Rubicon
Ive not tried this M8 deal yet. When you do it do you have to manually shift it the entire time?
Only upshift (pulling the shifter down) as the 4xe will automatically downshift as you slow down/apply brakes. So it's not too much hassle.
 

4xeRubicon

Active Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
25
Reaction score
50
Location
DC
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon 4xe
We know if we have a 100 mile trip that no matter the speed we go at, the battery will be depleted after the first 25 miles and when the trip is over the battery is at 0%. Whereas any other hybrid I could make a 100 mile trip and reasonably expect there could be 10% battery left
I am curious why this matters. Do you have some hard data (not trip displayed mpge) showing that you use the same amount of gas while using more battery up in Hybrid mode as compared to the M8 hack?
 

LJ_3M121318

Well-Known Member
First Name
LJ
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
313
Reaction score
187
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicle(s)
2021 4xe Rubicon
I am curious why this matters. Do you have some hard data (not trip displayed mpge) showing that you use the same amount of gas while using more battery up in Hybrid mode as compared to the M8 hack?
It matters for overall MPG. If you burn thru the electric miles first then go gas, then gas mpg in the long run is single digits. But if in true hybrid mode you are looking at 30-40mpg easily. And that's how a true hybrid should be.

I don't have any data but the other posters on here have tried it out.
 

4xeRubicon

Active Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
25
Reaction score
50
Location
DC
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon 4xe
It matters for overall MPG. If you burn thru the electric miles first then go gas, then gas mpg in the long run is single digits. But if in true hybrid mode you are looking at 30-40mpg easily. And that's how a true hybrid should be.

I don't have any data but the other posters on here have tried it out.
That is kind of the point of my question. I don't think there is any actual data on this thread that shows that the M8 method gets better MPG than using the factory-provided Hybrid method.

OPs photos only show that the M8 method will cause the trip meter to pretend all 80 miles were on gas, when in fact the battery was completely used up on the trip. This artificially inflates the MPG number on the trip meter (we can ignore the fact that this figure is not really true MPG anyway).

If someone does the classic at-the-pump MPG calculation at the end of each 80 mile trip, and posts the results for both the M8 method and the Hybrid method, then we would have actual data to discuss.
 

ElHobbz

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ed
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
67
Reaction score
62
Location
San Diego
Vehicle(s)
2020 4wd Tacoma OR
I just have anecdotal evidence driving to LA and back from SD (220 miles) with 100% battery there and 100% back we use less than half a tank before I read this thread we were using more than half the tank. Guessing between 1/4 to 1/8 difference in tank savings but too many factors... weather, a/c, traffic. I am hoping someone actually tests this out. With 8k miles now I don't have the need to conduct the test because according to my budget and the amount of times I refill it is a more efficient manner of driving.

**65 mile round trip twice a week to office with no charging options there
 

Chubba

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
Messages
17
Reaction score
32
Location
PNW
Vehicle(s)
4xe Sahara
I'm not sure how an escape works but I've had multiple hybrid and phev in my house and the way they operate is both systems running at the same time maximizing efficiency. So for example the gas engine is on at 50% power and electric 50% and those % go up and down based on how you are driving.

Whereas on 4xe the hybrid mode is all electric first and then once depleted it switches to gas. While gas is "available" if you punch it, it's not used unless needed.

We know if we have a 100 mile trip that no matter the speed we go at, the battery will be depleted after the first 25 miles and when the trip is over the battery is at 0%. Whereas any other hybrid I could make a 100 mile trip and reasonably expect there could be 10% battery left.

That's why this thread is so facinating because if we drive in M8 then the system finally acts as a true hybrid and we can maximize battery efficiency
Hmm my Sahara will definitely use both electric and ICE when in hybrid mode. It does prioritize electric until the "<1%" but that's when it will use both - ICE will cycle off as the battery is getting charged. So it's very similar/same as the Escape.
 

LJ_3M121318

Well-Known Member
First Name
LJ
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
313
Reaction score
187
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicle(s)
2021 4xe Rubicon
Hmm my Sahara will definitely use both electric and ICE when in hybrid mode. It does prioritize electric until the "<1%" but that's when it will use both - ICE will cycle off as the battery is getting charged. So it's very similar/same as the Escape.
Yes that's exactly what we're saying. You get the true hybrid mode when battery is at <1% but if battery is charged then it's basically just using electric so youre driving around with 140 HP. Only when you floor it then engine kicks in. So what this thread is about is seeing if when in M8 mode both the engine and electric are running at the same time giving you that 400+ HP/torque.

Your escape is probably similar to most other hybrids that work at the same time which is only when 4xe is at <1%.

A true hybrid uses both at the same time simultaneously, not one vs the other.
 

Chubba

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2021
Messages
17
Reaction score
32
Location
PNW
Vehicle(s)
4xe Sahara
Yes that's exactly what we're saying. You get the true hybrid mode when battery is at <1% but if battery is charged then it's basically just using electric so youre driving around with 140 HP. Only when you floor it then engine kicks in. So what this thread is about is seeing if when in M8 mode both the engine and electric are running at the same time giving you that 400+ HP/torque.

Your escape is probably similar to most other hybrids that work at the same time which is only when 4xe is at <1%.

A true hybrid uses both at the same time simultaneously, not one vs the other.
But that's not what I saw posted. And when in hybrid mode the 4xe will absolutely use both electric and ICE if you put the throttle down. Anyway, it's a hybrid. A true hybrid.
 
Last edited:

Echo4papa

Well-Known Member
First Name
Scott
Joined
May 6, 2021
Messages
354
Reaction score
447
Location
Florida
Vehicle(s)
2021 Sahara 4xe
Occupation
Success Engineer
It matters for overall MPG. If you burn thru the electric miles first then go gas, then gas mpg in the long run is single digits. But if in true hybrid mode you are looking at 30-40mpg easily. And that's how a true hybrid should be.

I don't have any data but the other posters on here have tried it out.
Just how long is it "in the long run" to reach these single digit mpg rating? I drove from Central FL to Baltimore without charging along the way and averaged around 23 mpg.
 

LJ_3M121318

Well-Known Member
First Name
LJ
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
313
Reaction score
187
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicle(s)
2021 4xe Rubicon
But that's not what I saw posted. And when in hybrid mode the 4xe will absolutley use both electric and ICE if you put the throttle down. Anyway, it's a hybrid. A true hybrid.
No it's not. Take your 4xe out fully charged on a 24 mile trip under 50 miles an hour and check your mileage usage. You'll see after 24 miles all electric has been used up (mpg will be showing 99mpg) before gas mileage used.

That is not a true hybrid
 

OINC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2021
Messages
278
Reaction score
402
Location
The Triangle, NC
Vehicle(s)
2021 Sahara 4xe
Yes that's exactly what we're saying. You get the true hybrid mode when battery is at <1% but if battery is charged then it's basically just using electric so youre driving around with 140 HP. Only when you floor it then engine kicks in. So what this thread is about is seeing if when in M8 mode both the engine and electric are running at the same time giving you that 400+ HP/torque.

Your escape is probably similar to most other hybrids that work at the same time which is only when 4xe is at <1%.

A true hybrid uses both at the same time simultaneously, not one vs the other.
No it's not. Take your 4xe out fully charged on a 24 mile trip under 50 miles an hour and check your mileage usage. You'll see after 24 miles all electric has been used up (mpg will be showing 99mpg) before gas mileage used.

That is not a true hybrid
Wow, you're just doubling down on your own personal definition of "true hybrid" that doesn't actually match any car currently in existence.

Ever actually paid attention to the power distribution screen in a Prius, a Ford hybrid, a Chevrolet hybrid, or any other modern HEV?

A modern HEV blends electric and gas on demand, and adjusts the blend from 100% gas to 100% electric and everywhere in between, based on demand, efficiency, and availability. If the HEV can get away with running pure electric until the battery is depleted to reserve, it absolutely will. They're usually just very small batteries (my current HEV's battery is 1.5kWh) and very small electric motors compared to the 4xe, so gas will blend in much earlier on an HEV as compared to a PHEV. And most likely, the HEV will cruise on the highway using only the ICE because the electric motor can't contribute usefully. It will only blend in electric for acceleration. Hardly both systems "work[ing] at the same time".

Regardless, one of the episodes of the Ask The Expert series on the Wrangler4xEFans YouTube channel has a discussion of why they chose the blend they chose.
 

digimark

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Messages
69
Reaction score
99
Location
Chesapeake Beach, MD
Vehicle(s)
'07 MT JK 2-dr X, Nacho JLUR 4xe.
I second @OINC and I think of the 4xe acts like it has two batteries, the 0->15% "<1%" one that manages the ICE/electric supply in hybrid mode after the second, 100%->16% portion provides the electric-only part. For under ~20 mile trips, the most efficient use is electric-only so it uses the top-part of the battery. Once depleted, the bottom part of the battery should work just like our Prius and hybrid Corolla do -- a blend of the ICE and electric motors for best efficiency. While both 4xe and Prius have different programs, the 4xe is like a Prius Prime -- a Prius with a slightly bigger battery for some electric-only miles.
 

yngrshr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
52
Reaction score
46
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
2004 GTO
I mean, it's abundantly clear that there are benefits of staying in M8 on the highway. My parents live about 60 miles away and I end up with about 10% left in charge when I stay on the highway with around 80-90% of the driving in M8.

This makes sense as the engine is in prime gas mileage mode and the battery doesn't have to do any real heavy lifting - just adding some oomph here and there when the road grade changes a bit.

Both the battery and ICE are in their "best" states in a way.
 

4xeRubicon

Active Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
25
Reaction score
50
Location
DC
Vehicle(s)
2021 Rubicon 4xe
I mean, it's abundantly clear that there are benefits of staying in M8 on the highway. My parents live about 60 miles away and I end up with about 10% left in charge when I stay on the highway with around 80-90% of the driving in M8.

This makes sense as the engine is in prime gas mileage mode and the battery doesn't have to do any real heavy lifting - just adding some oomph here and there when the road grade changes a bit.

Both the battery and ICE are in their "best" states in a way.
How much less gas did you use vs making that drive in Hybrid?
 
Advertisement

Tazer JL - Z Automotive
 
Advertisement
Top