G-StarRock

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After 1 month of ownership and putting on 1100 fun miles with different drive modes (Hybrid, Electric and Esave) I think I’ve finally figured out how to drive in the true Hybrid mode in order to maximize the mpg number.

This thread is not for the folks that have put on 1000+ miles driving around town and charging 6x a day to put all electric miles and get 50 plus mpg average.

This thread is for folks using their truck for daily commutes and putting on 80 plus miles daily with no time to stop for 2hrs charge while commuting.

Driving in manual mode M8 while the Jeep is in Hybrid you get a true hybrid performance. It runs on both electric and gas using the two intelligently for 80 miles until the time electric runs out. The pics should speak the whole story. On ‘pure’ hybrid which drives on manual M8 I got 31+ mpg and when in auto mode with hybrid I got 22+ mpg. I love how M8 intelligently uses electric and gas.

Now the question is - why did Jeep not think of this? Just like you need to turn on auto regen - now to drive full Hybrid you need to drive in M8 mode?

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REDSEAL199

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After 1 month of ownership and putting on 1100 fun miles with different drive modes (Hybrid, Electric and Esave) I think I’ve finally figured out how to drive in the true Hybrid mode in order to maximize the mpg number.

This thread is not for the folks that have put on 1000+ miles driving around town and charging 6x a day to put all electric miles and get 50 plus mpg average.

This thread is for folks using their truck for daily commutes and putting on 80 plus miles daily with no time to stop for 2hrs charge while commuting.

Driving in manual mode M8 while the Jeep is in Hybrid you get a true hybrid performance. It runs on both electric and gas using the two intelligently for 80 miles until the time electric runs out. The pics should speak the whole story. On ‘pure’ hybrid which drives on manual M8 I got 31+ mpg and when in auto mode with hybrid I got 22+ mpg. I love how M8 intelligently uses electric and gas.

Now the question is - why did Jeep not think of this? Just like you need to turn on auto regen - now to drive full Hybrid you need to drive in M8 mode?

6D7CB8C3-ECD8-48AC-A3F7-885FC2E5250E.jpeg
BC0242B2-AA4B-41E2-A1E4-C5E5584D7E09.jpeg
So to be clear you got were getting the 31mpg running in the manual mode vs the 22mpg in drive? My wife has the 4xe and drives about 68miles round trip to work each day. The best she has gotten is 24mpg but she has never tried the manual mode on the gear shift.
 
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G-StarRock

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That is correct. I am in hilly northern California. If you live somewhere flat - you may get better mileage.
 

michail

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Very interesting. Considering it's MPGe, I'm not sure exactly how to judge that.

I'd be curious to see total range on each method.
 

cutandrun

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After 1 month of ownership and putting on 1100 fun miles with different drive modes (Hybrid, Electric and Esave) I think I’ve finally figured out how to drive in the true Hybrid mode in order to maximize the mpg number.

This thread is not for the folks that have put on 1000+ miles driving around town and charging 6x a day to put all electric miles and get 50 plus mpg average.

This thread is for folks using their truck for daily commutes and putting on 80 plus miles daily with no time to stop for 2hrs charge while commuting.

Driving in manual mode M8 while the Jeep is in Hybrid you get a true hybrid performance. It runs on both electric and gas using the two intelligently for 80 miles until the time electric runs out. The pics should speak the whole story. On ‘pure’ hybrid which drives on manual M8 I got 31+ mpg and when in auto mode with hybrid I got 22+ mpg. I love how M8 intelligently uses electric and gas.

Now the question is - why did Jeep not think of this? Just like you need to turn on auto regen - now to drive full Hybrid you need to drive in M8 mode?
Maybe this could be true, but I think it’s more likely an anomaly in the trip computer. In both cases your battery is completely drained, but in the M8 case gasoline gets credit for all 82 miles (battery gets zero). Even if the 4xe engine never stops running in M8 mode (?), the battery still extinguished itself getting those 82 miles. The number of miles attributed to gas is overstated.
 
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G-StarRock

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Maybe this could be true, but I think it’s more likely an anomaly in the trip computer. In both cases your battery is completely drained, but in the M8 case gasoline gets credit for all 82 miles (battery gets zero). Even if the 4xe engine never stops running in M8 mode (?), the battery still extinguished itself getting those 82 miles. The number of miles attributed to gas is overstated.
in the M8 situation the battery drained <1% at the 82 mile mark. I took a snapshot of that. In the automatic mode same 82 miles - it first ran electric like it always does for approx. 21 miles and the remaining 62 miles on gas. Pretty straight forward. I have longer commutes and have played around with different configurations and this (manual M8) gives me the best mpg.
 

Echo4papa

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in the M8 situation the battery drained <1% at the 82 mile mark. I took a snapshot of that. In the automatic mode same 82 miles - it first ran electric like it always does for approx. 21 miles and the remaining 62 miles on gas. Pretty straight forward. I have longer commutes and have played around with different configurations and this (manual M8) gives me the best mpg.
Ignore the readout. Calculate your MPG manually. Do it for a week one way, and then a week the other. Recharge the battery each night, but only over night, not at random during the day. Keep your driving situations the same (as much as possible) for both weeks. Log your miles. Start with a full tank at the beginning of the week and fill up at the end to see how much you used.

Then compare the two to see the actual difference.
 

michail

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Great topic! I'm torn between trip computer anomaly and hybrid operation.

Engineer in me says energy should be a wash out. But we are dealing with different effiencies.

Which is why I'm curious about total range. One charge, one full tank of of petrol.
 

Echo4papa

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Great topic! I'm torn between trip computer anomaly and hybrid operation.

Engineer in me says energy should be a wash out. But we are dealing with different effiencies.

Which is why I'm curious about total range. One charge, one full tank of of petrol.
I noticed on my drive up and back to Baltimore, even when the battery is depleted, you still end up showing ~10 miles on battery between fill ups.

Also, when you're driving, the ICE is chilling at low RPM's and the electric motors are working too so I don't put a lot of faith in the readout initially. Not to mention the approximate 2 MPG difference between the readout and calculated MPG I had when I tracked usage.
 
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G-StarRock

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My 4xe in Hybrid mode only uses electric first. It does not intelligently decides between gas and electric until I floor the throttle to kick in ICE. So technically it's not a true hybrid.

Only when I put the truck in manual M8 mode do I see both ICE and electric being consumed at the same time. Full charge on electric does not run out until 80+ miles.
 

LJ_3M121318

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My 4xe in Hybrid mode only uses electric first. It does not intelligently decides between gas and electric until I floor the throttle to kick in ICE. So technically it's not a true hybrid.

Only when I put the truck in manual M8 mode do I see both ICE and electric being consumed at the same time. Full charge on electric does not run out until 80+ miles.
What about if youre in M1-M7? Does it only use gas and no electric?
 

michail

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One issue in manual would be the engine not stopping in cases where it wasn't needed. But at a steady pace is there gain to running hybrid? If so, is the normal hybrid mode less efficient when the e range is depleted? It could be working harder to make charging top offs.

My initial thought was it should be a wash, but if there are gains, phevs should come with and extended range mode where it still does start/stop.

I'm curious to see an old fashioned pump calculation.
 
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G-StarRock

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Start stops are only happening for city driving or quick exists. For straight freeway drive where you are not shifting normal hybrid mode is less efficient. It's drawing little to no power from the battery - as a matter of fact the additional weight of the battery is a disadvantage.

This is where the manual mode (though pain in the butt) is working more efficiently for long run drives until the battery is depleted (around 80 miles). YMMV.
 

Echo4papa

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Start stops are only happening for city driving or quick exists. For straight freeway drive where you are not shifting normal hybrid mode is less efficient. It's drawing little to no power from the battery - as a matter of fact the additional weight of the battery is a disadvantage.

This is where the manual mode (though pain in the butt) is working more efficiently for long run drives until the battery is depleted (around 80 miles). YMMV.
I don't think he's talking about just start/stops. I just got back from a long drive (about 1800 miles) and even with the battery at <1% you still see plenty of times where the the ICE shuts off and you're cruising on electric (mostly downhill or letting off the gas to coast etc.) for short spurts. I saw an increase in battery miles at about 10 miles per tank on straight freeway driving in hybrid mode with "no battery" left. Also, a significant amount of time, the ICE is running at pretty low RPMs and you're getting an assist from the electric motors at the same time (you can see the output from the meter or from the hybrid app).

Anyhow, I think overall my point is the readout in general seems to be a bit misleading and I don't think anyone here has a firm enough grasp to say definitively that it's accurate one way or another, so we should be hesitant in relying on that alone and try to test/manually calculate fuel usage in different scenarios to test these things.
 

wranglerbro

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The OP might be on to something, or it might be a wash, but huge thumbs up to the OP for bringing this to our attention.

When I run in Hybrid only mode, non-manual, it will use up the battery first before going to ICE. Today, I tried this method on the highway today, it matched up to the OPs findings in M8. ICE and the battery were actually working together. The battery depleted at a snails pace and the mpg hovered around 34mpg. I'm really looking forward to testing this further on longer road trips.
 
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