Unsure of where to start negotiating with my dealer

[Birdbird26]

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/GBS/396-P*2

The document you posted didn't have an estimated delivery date. If that's all you have, then maybe you can reference section 4 from the link above and get your deposit back.

You sir, are a Rockstar. Thank you!

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[Olga]

I know my jeep will be in before the next 30 days, so Tread Lightly seems out of the question.

Join Tread Lightly now. If the Jeep comes in 3 weeks from now, wait a week to pick it up.

Before joining Tread Lightly don't forget to check if you already quality for the affiliate program.

 

[LooselyHeldPlans]

Compare the letter you have to the window sticker. If it's not on the window sticker, you don't pay it. PERIOD.

 

[Birdbird26]

Before joining Tread Lightly don't forget to check if you already quality for the affiliate program.

I just found out my employer (dunkin for my second job that is) is an affiliate so from what I've read on here I can get 1% below invoice, and the dealer gets 1% back, or if I'm super lucky they'll give me the whole 2% (kidding, with this dealer I'll be lucky if they give me the 1% for me)

 

[displayname]

because ordering one from another dealer will probably be 6-8 weeks now

Good luck to you.

Here's the only advice I have to offer:
- If you were spending $45,000 on any items other than a car, would you wait 6-8 weeks to get exactly what you wanted at a price you felt was fair? Most people would.

- A $1K loss on the deposit is A LOT less than $100-$200/month. You'll save the money back in a year by backing out of a bad deal and cutting your losses. $50/month is $3,600 before you factor in interest. Eating that $1K might be your best deal at this stage.

Up to this point, you have been a salesman's dream. Focused on monthly payments, trading in a vehicle with negative equity for a more expensive vehicle, handing over money before you even agreed to terms. Short of pulling off the lot with a car that's been sitting for 120 days with 1,000 miles in test drives, they have had total control. The only thing they have going for them is the above market trade in offer. But it sounds like that isn't even in writing yet, and it still involves rolling negative equity into your new deal.

As much as $1,000 deposit is an expensive lesson, it's not nearly as expensive as it sounds like this purchase might be.

 

[Birdbird26]

I'm thinking everyone on here is right. I actually called Gupton tonight to see how the whole thing would work from NY and they're more than willing to take a look and see what they can do. I'm going to try to get the money back from the dealer and if not, it seems that Gupton is the way to go. Almost everyone on this post as well as several others have said Gupton is the way to go. Thank you everyone for you valued insight. Fools rush in, as they say..

 

[Killed by Death]

With limited allocations in a local high volume market Tread Lightly was the best I could do. Even that was battle but the end of the month is coming up. Thinking that helped.

 

[Birdbird26]

With limited allocations in a local high volume market Tread Lightly was the best I could do. Even that was battle but the end of the month is coming up. Thinking that helped.

I was going to do treat lightly but figured out i'm an FCA affiliate based on work. Only problem is the dealer told me we can honor FCA affiliate discount, but then we can't give you what we promised for a trade in as they "have to use the actual cash value for your vehicle which is 21,500. We can' t do the discount and over allow on the trade" We can do it one way or the other". Needless to say i'm thinking of just cutting ties and leaving them alone completely.

 

[Steve JLUR]

I know this is a longshot, but does anyone mind sharing their deal worksheets or any sort of info for me to use against my dealer? I just called him and said we need to talk about financing well before this thing hits the ground. He sent me a generic form with just the sale price, nothing broken down. I said i'm not paying MSRP, custom orders are usually a few % below invoice costs. He's like you are going to pay MSRP as everyone is paying sticker right now, you're no exception. So i'd like some info on your current deals if you've ordered a jeep within the last month here lets say early May to now, and what your % off was and who you worked with. I appreciate it very much,

You should find out if your deposit is legally non-refundable. That phrase is used all the time by businesses in CA, and it is not legal. If they lied, send them a registered letter demanding your deposit back, and cancelling the order. Then do your homework, as has been discussed here, and order from a place that isn’t screwing you around. Any dealer that will not tell you exactly what you are paying for the vehicle out the door, as equipped, is baiting you. Just trying to get you in the dealership to work you for more money.

Also, there are two separate sales processes with the dealer model of car sales. First is the car purchase which has been discussed ad nauseam here, the second is finance. Make no mistake, F&I is a profit center, and they are there to cost you money. They are NOT there to help you. There is nothing wrong with a dealer making profit, they wouldn’t be there if they didn’t. The problem for you is, the less you know the more they make. Do you want to be the rube that paid more because you were impatient? Jeep makes hundreds of thousands of these a year, and they are not stopping tomorrow, well maybe tomorrow, but they will start again.

going back to that dealer to buy your Jeep now is worse than going back to a cheating partner, the partner is a one off, the Jeep dealer is one of thousands.

 

[Killed by Death]

I was going to do treat lightly but figured out i'm an FCA affiliate based on work. Only problem is the dealer told me we can honor FCA affiliate discount, but then we can't give you what we promised for a trade in as they "have to use the actual cash value for your vehicle which is 21,500. We can' t do the discount and over allow on the trade" We can do it one way or the other". Needless to say i'm thinking of just cutting ties and leaving them alone completely.

That sucks...

I'm a long time customer and they have always treated me fairly so far. My Tread Lightly discount & trade value was included in the deal.

 

[GearWhore]

By the way, OP, congratulations on what sounds like some hard work on your part to get your credit & other life shit turned around in a relatively short time! No easy feat in any way, and especially with the last year and a half we have all had.

 

[JeffCj7Jl]

I had a feeling that your dealer would not budge on the price of your order and I would guess they are going to say that there’s no way that they’ll sell for invoice. (I know, I’m from Syracuse, NY and no local dealers would deal at it below invoice, which is why I went to VA to get mine.)

That being said, they are probably giving you more for your trade than it’s worth to them and using lease/buy payments as a way to “negotiate”.

If I were in your position, I would get an out the door price for your dealer ASAP including the price that they are going to sell the Jeep.

At the same time, I would shop other dealers to see what their out the door price would be with your trade.

When comparing, l would focus on the bottom line price that you will pay. You might find the higher trade in value at the current dealer offsets a discount and lower trade in value at another. Or you may see that a better deal offsets the loss of the nonrefundable deposit.

Car buying is extremely frustrating. It sounds like their moving money around with your trade and financing. At the end of the day, look at the bottom line, and do what makes the most sense for you.

 

[Ja87sm]

Ditto to above. Always negotiate in otd. If I’m trading, I decide what I want to pay including all factors. I know my payoff, their doc fees, taxes, registration etc and I run my numbers. I start with an offer a grand or so under my max depending on how reasonable it is. Sometimes they bite sometimes they don’t. When I give them my max, I politely let them know this is where I’m at and if I walk out the door, I’m not coming back regardless of the offer. 9/10 you get stopped on the way out the door and if you don’t.. you get an idea of where you stand either way.

 

[KenPewPew]

Loads of advice here, so I'll throw mine in.

For starters, getting quotes from other dealers isn't going to help much at this point. The dealer has your $1K and he knows that's going to be a huge barrier against you taking your order elsewhere. He knows you're stuck with him, so he has no reason to come down on the price.

IMO, your *best* option today would be to consider this a $1,000 learning experience, cancel and walk away.

Yes, that sucks. Alot. But your Kia is a 2021 - it's not like you're driving an old beat-up, unreliable vehicle that's going to cost $$$ in repairs. You've got an industry-leading 10-year, 100,000 mile warranty on that bad boy as well. The Seltos is no slouch - it looks cool, has great features, updated tech, etc. It would be different if you were driving an old beater.

Going from a $27K car to a $47K car is going to be a *massive* difference in your monthly cost, especially if you get hosed with a bad rate, etc.

If you want to get out of the Kia more quickly, then do some math. Figure out what your Jeep payment would be, and make the Jeep-sized payment on your Kia every month. If you do that for a year, you likely won't be upside down in the Kia any more, which opens up your options some. Do it for 2 years and you might even pay the whole Kia off - then you're in a MUCH better position to get a new Jeep.

By the time you do this, two things are likely to happen in the auto industry:

1. The Jeep Wrangler is due to get a refresh in Model Year 2023. If nothing else, the presence of the new Ford Bronco is going to bring some much-needed competition, so the 2023 Wrangler is likely to be much better than the 2021 one (cheaper, more options, better options from factory, etc)
2. The number of EVs on the market will likely double in the next 2 years. Like it or not, agree or disagree, it is absolutely the future. Jeep has already got the 4xe and it's proven to be extremely capable. Expect their fully electric one to be even better.

TL;DR - my advice is to take the bath on the $1K deposit, cancel your order, and double-down on enjoying your Kia and paying it off as quickly as you can while you wait the market out. 2023 will be a significantly better time to buy a car than 2021 is. Prices and inventory levels will have recovered from COVID, and you might even be able to get back to the 12-15% below invoice that people were getting on Wranglers back in 2019 and 2020.

Maybe talk to the dealer and see if you can get a $1,000 credit for the service center or on a new set of tires or something. This way you still get *some* value and the dealer doesn't lose out on the $1,000.

I second 100% rcadden advice (along with many others here which mentioned that you should consider you $1000 deposit sunked and it's lesson learned).

TLDR aside, rcadden and many here has giving some pretty sound advice. I don't understand why you want to trade in a 2021 vehicle where you are still paying for a Jeep where right now is the worst time to buy due to scarcity and prices (along with the mentioned 2023 mid product cycle upgrade or to keep up with Ford Broncos).

Respectfully, everyone here has been offering awesome advice but you are not listening. You are trying to justify your action even though you are agreeing with many here. I don't know what resolution that you are looking but as far as I can see, it is time to stop speculating and guessing and just deal with your matter on hand and learn from it.

Sorry buddy, I know that it might sound harsh but you are really giving excuses to all the good (redundant as it may be) advice that has been provided by the forum members here

I wish you the best!

 

[rcadden]

Ditto to above. Always negotiate in otd. If I’m trading, I decide what I want to pay including all factors. I know my payoff, their doc fees, taxes, registration etc and I run my numbers. I start with an offer a grand or so under my max depending on how reasonable it is. Sometimes they bite sometimes they don’t. When I give them my max, I politely let them know this is where I’m at and if I walk out the door, I’m not coming back regardless of the offer. 9/10 you get stopped on the way out the door and if you don’t.. you get an idea of where you stand either way.

This is the best way to buy anything, really. Know your ideal cost and your maximum cost, and be mentally prepared to walk away if you can't land somewhere in between.

So many people walk into a car dealership having already mentally decided that they're going to leave in a new car, and those people are who keep dealerships in business.

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