underseat battery??

[TCogs1]

As opposed to having the second battery inside the vehicle? It's still a dual battery system either way.

Jeep dealer and FCA said, as long as you dont hard wire together it your warranty will stay intact. I don't like their answer, but i really don't have a choice.

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[photo2000a]

hmm that would suck if you put a second battery regardless of where in your jeep and it voided the warrantee. I truly wonder if that is legal?? I would suspect they would have to prove the work you did caused the malfunction ... have to check w/legal on that but a good point. my plan to add that second battery was to use a isolator pretty old tech considered standard would love for a legal beagle to weigh in on that ...double hmmm so I guess I wonder if they consider a isolator hard wired as it's not always connected electrically , if they are referring to physically? so I guess put a heavy Anderson power pole plug. as a work around??

 

[Spank]

Jeep dealer and FCA said, as long as you dont hard wire together it your warranty will stay intact. I don't like their answer, but i really don't have a choice.

Jeep can't legally void any portion of a warranty for modifications alone. They can certainly refuse to repair damage to components if they can prove such damage was a result of said modifications.

The "whatever mod voids your warranty" bullshit is typical dealership drivel to avoid having to do the actual work in making that determination, which most service techs are awful at.

 

[TCogs1]

hmm that would suck if you put a second battery regardless of where in your jeep and it voided the warrantee. I truly wonder if that is legal?? I would suspect they would have to prove the work you did caused the malfunction ... have to check w/legal on that but a good point. my plan to add that second battery was to use a isolator pretty old tech considered standard would love for a legal beagle to weigh in on that ...double hmmm so I guess I wonder if they consider a isolator hard wired as it's not always connected electrically , if they are referring to physically? so I guess put a heavy Anderson power pole plug. as a work around??

I was thinking run the isolator wires to the engine compartment and terminate with charging clamps, just like any other charger. Simple and I don't have to worry about a legal war..

As far a battery location, i am still leaning toward possibly in smaller portable battery box or find a place under the jeep (muffler delete?).. but these cells are configurable, so under the seat could work, but that makes me nervous too.. not sure..

One thing for sure, I am not spending $2-4K on some weak all in one set up.. A simple Optima for winch work loads and 4 of these http://energetechsolar.com/Fortune-100Ah-Aluminum-Encased-Battery and I am set for off grid for years to come.

Hope helps with ideas..

TC

 

[photo2000a]

it's a cool battery I'd love to go Li. lower weight. great power. but. I'll need 2 batteries @100a ea min so. that is not in my budget I'll prob end up w/some agm/gel mostly powering ham radio gear. w/a option for. jump maybe future. I'd add a inverter but low priority for me now, w/solar on the roof n hood to keep it topped off while away from veh.. full redarc, some type of distro block haven't figured all details, some type of rear vertical panels. where I'll mount gear batts under seats. devil in details ...

 

[Gee-pah]

@photo2000a : Is your radio equipment something that you either intend on running with the vehicle engine off, or that consumes so much power that engine on or off, you are concerned will draw too much current?

Would plugging the vehicle into a 110 A/C trickle charger when/if shore power is accessible not suffice to compensate for extra drain the radio equipment creates?

Of course I neither know if your place to park the vehicle is consistent and shore power capable, or the wattage drawn by your ham radio equipment. If for example you park in something more like a multi-vehicle urban parking structure, a dedicated radio battery could be portable enough to drag to shore power for a charge.

 

[photo2000a]

@photo2000a : Is your radio equipment something that you either intend on running with the vehicle engine off, or that consumes so much power that engine on or off, you are concerned will draw too much current?

Would plugging the vehicle into a 110 A/C trickle charger when/if shore power is accessible not suffice to compensate for extra drain the radio equipment creates?

Of course I neither know if your place to park the vehicle is consistent and shore power capable, or the wattage drawn by your ham radio equipment. If for example you park in something more like a multi-vehicle urban parking structure, a dedicated radio battery could be portable enough to drag to shore power for a charge.

>>yes. it's high power. as well as 24x7 drain-- but also don't want to put the load on my starting batt this way as I mod the jeep more in the future I'll already have the pwr squared away. it's fun to work on the jeep. seems. a waste that space under the seat. and looks perfect for a battery or two and a pwr distro block
>>for the most part I won't have access to shore pwr but the goal of my design is to not be dependent on it, for longer off road trips, camping etc I can sort of get by w/the above. I have my controller set so I won't go below where I need. shore the solar and my engine running habits will keep the seat batteries good based on past exp in my other car.

one of the many cool things I like about the jeeps is being able to make modifications mostly easy. mine are modest. but. fun to get out and play .

 

[Gee-pah]

but also don't want to put the load on my starting batt this way

@photo2000a, at least on the 3.6L JL my "starting battery" is a bit of a misnomer that *if* you are unaware of the logic of the vehicle's cold crank, it may find you solving problems in less than ideal ways.

Maybe you don't have a 3.6L, or maybe you know this, but in the original 2018 model, the vehicle would temporarily isolate and check that the ESS/AUX battery met sufficient thresholds for current before connecting it in parallel to the main battery and using both batteries for the crank. (The batteries in the 3.6L are normally connected in parallel but for this check and ESS events.)

This is why you could cold crank the rig with the main battery disconnected but not the ESS/Aux battery. If you want to see video of this please say so.

This, IMHO was stupid logic stolen from post ESS engine cranks where it's okay for the start logic to be this way because 1) ESS won't engage when the ESS/Aux battery lacks adequate current, or will 2) end ESS prematurely if the ESS/Aux battery loses too much current during the ESS event. No such checks exist for cold cranks.

FCA seems to have changed this logic in 2019 3.6L's and later, and provided a flash for 2018's to incorporate this changed logic such that no longer will a dead ESS/Aux battery prevent a cold crank from being attempted.

I say all this because isolating the two batteries when you're camping, and running your radio gear of one of them may be a solution. As long as they are not reconnected in parallel until after you successfully crank, one depleted battery running your radio geao won't become a parasite to the one you leave be while camping.

If you need more 411 on how this is easily done please express interest.

 

[TCogs1]

@photo2000a, at least on the 3.6L JL my "starting battery" is a bit of a misnomer that *if* you are unaware of the logic of the vehicle's cold crank, it may find you solving problems in less than ideal ways.

Maybe you don't have a 3.6L, or maybe you know this, but in the original 2018 model, the vehicle would temporarily isolate and check that the ESS/AUX battery met sufficient thresholds for current before connecting it in parallel to the main battery and using both batteries for the crank. (The batteries in the 3.6L are normally connected in parallel but for this check and ESS events.)

This is why you could cold crank the rig with the main battery disconnected but not the ESS/Aux battery. If you want to see video of this please say so.

This, IMHO was stupid logic stolen from post ESS engine cranks where it's okay for the start logic to be this way because 1) ESS won't engage when the ESS/Aux battery lacks adequate current, or will 2) end ESS prematurely if the ESS/Aux battery loses too much current during the ESS event. No such checks exist for cold cranks.

FCA seems to have changed this logic in 2019 3.6L's and later, and provided a flash for 2018's to incorporate this changed logic such that no longer will a dead ESS/Aux battery prevent a cold crank from being attempted.

I say all this because isolating the two batteries when you're camping, and running your radio gear of one of them may be a solution. As long as they are not reconnected in parallel until after you successfully crank, one depleted battery running your radio geao won't become a parasite to the one you leave be while camping.

If you need more 411 on how this is easily done please express interest.

Andy thanks for your in depth knowledge on this topic.. question, are you suggesting there is an active isolator separating the ESS run time and charge circuits and they only go into parallel during a cranking session?

Thanks in advance!

TC

 

[TCogs1]

Andy thanks for your in depth knowledge on this topic.. question, are you suggesting there is an active isolator separating the ESS run time and charge circuits and they only go into parallel during a cranking session?

Thanks in advance!

TC

I am still looking at the circut drawings, but according to this the ESS Batt is fused at 10amps and no power going to the engine crank circut, but i am still looking and learning..

 

[photo2000a]

hi. yes was fully aware of the 2 battery set up, and the start sequence of use, interesting how jeep did that to perform the ASS, but my theory of not wanting to use my jeep under the hood batteries. is fixed in stone. learned my lesson once--- I'll just let them do what they are supposed to. and my personal gear will have a second set of batteries. kinda fun to do the work and good to have a extra option. appreciate the tips for sure. I am still learning

 

[garkoi]

it's a cool battery I'd love to go Li. lower weight. great power. but. I'll need 2 batteries @100a ea min so. that is not in my budget I'll prob end up w/some agm/gel mostly powering ham radio gear. w/a option for. jump maybe future. I'd add a inverter but low priority for me now, w/solar on the roof n hood to keep it topped off while away from veh.. full redarc, some type of distro block haven't figured all details, some type of rear vertical panels. where I'll mount gear batts under seats. devil in details ...

2x100ah agm/gel is going to be heavy about 66lbs each, also take into consideration that you should only discharge them to 50% so instead of being a 100ah its really more like 50ah, so your total capacity isnt 200ah is only 100ah, one more thing whats your discharge rate ? the more amps you pull the less you will get out of it due to Peukert's law, if you load is 0.1c (10amp) load on a single 100ah battery then you should be fine, you will be able to get 50ah before it starts dipping below 11.9v however at 1c (100amp) load you will get less than a few mins if that before it dips into the 10v range. also 1 single 200ah is better than 2x100ah.

 

[TCogs1]

2x100ah agm/gel is going to be heavy about 66lbs each, also take into consideration that you should only discharge them to 50% so instead of being a 100ah its really more like 50ah, so your total capacity isnt 200ah is only 100ah, one more thing whats your discharge rate ? the more amps you pull the less you will get out of it due to Peukert's law, if you load is 0.1c (10amp) load on a single 100ah battery then you should be fine, you will be able to get 50ah before it starts dipping below 11.9v however at 1c (100amp) load you will get less than a few mins if that before it dips into the 10v range. also 1 single 200ah is better than 2x100ah.

If we could get a few of us to by these used Lifepo4 to offset the shipping cost we would be set..
https://batteryhookup.com/products/byd-24v-8s-lifepo4-3kwh-blowout

You bring up a good point, my warn winch pulls 400amps.. batteries go quick..

 

[Gee-pah]

Andy thanks for your in depth knowledge on this topic.. question, are you suggesting there is an active isolator separating the ESS run time and charge circuits and they only go into parallel during a cranking session?

Thanks in advance!

TC

Hey Thomas:

No--I think, if I understand you correctly, that I am saying the opposite--which is that in the 3.6L the 2 batteries are always connected in parallel but for an 1) instant at cold crank when the ESS battery is tested, 2) an instant before an ESS event is about to occur to make sure the ESS battery has adequate charge before beginning the ESS event, where it (that ESS) battery will perform most power need functions, and 3) the ESS event itself.

I understand power steering is still energized off the main battery even during an ESS event.

Isolating this ESS battery manually, say to use it when out on the trail, is as easy as disconnecting its two cables to the main battery--but only do this if your rig can cold crank with the main battery only, and reconnect the batteries (carefully) after a successful cold crank to get the alternator in the business of recharging both batteries.

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