Turbo on every rubicon on dealer lot

[Foxtrot]

In your previous posts you make claims that the 91octane fuel will have "more power" and "better mileage". Unless I am mistaken...either fuel will give you the same results. The higher Octane is more expensive...not because it will give you more power or better mileage....but it is more expensive because it has additives to prevent it from detonation.......PERIOD.
If I am mistaken....(there is only 4 octane difference in the two fuels) Please post some test results showing that the premium fuel delivers what you say. Otherwise lets be smart about this and lets all learn. If I am mistaken (wont be the first time) let me be educated. Thanks.

You are half right. In a normal engine, say the 3.6, which has lower cylinder pressures, going up in octane won't do a thing except lighten your wallet.

In a turbo or high performance engine where pressures are much higher, either a higher octane fuel or a change in timing is needed. So in a new computer controlled engine, the timing can be adjusted to compensate for knock, but at the sacrifice of performance, no free lunch.

Here is a helpful article and a tl;dr quote from said article.
"Will road cars perform better with high octane fuel?
The simple answer is: yes, if they are designed to."

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/engineering-explained-high-vs-low-octane-petrol/

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[BrntWS6]

Mini's are surprisingly fast. Two or three times year our local corvette club leases a local track so we can run our Vettes as fast as we can around the course. Sometimes we have to share the track with the local "Mini-Cooper" club. The Corvettes are easily faster and more powerful....but make no mistake the Cooper is still accelerating toward us when we are braking into the corners...and they make up ground they lose on the straights. Coopers are not as fast as muscle cars...but make no mistake they are formidable performance cars...and yes they are fast.

Hey if handling is your thing great, im sure they are zippy cars in the twisties. But here in America we are concerned with 1/4 mile acceleration. Being involved in the muscle car scene since the 90s most guys could give a shit about how fast they can make it around the track. 14s in the quarter mile is okay for my wifes car i guess.

 

[Majestic]

Mini's are surprisingly fast. Two or three times year our local corvette club leases a local track so we can run our Vettes as fast as we can around the course. Sometimes we have to share the track with the local "Mini-Cooper" club. The Corvettes are easily faster and more powerful....but make no mistake the Cooper is still accelerating toward us when we are braking into the corners...and they make up ground they lose on the straights. Coopers are not as fast as muscle cars...but make no mistake they are formidable performance cars...and yes they are fast.

I've had both Corvettes and Minis. I'd race either one of them on a track. On a dragstrip I'd take the Corvette all day long. The Mini was more fun on twisties (not necessarily faster). I'd say the Mini was actually more fun even though the quality was the worst I'd ever seen on a modern car. The Corvette got me more thumbs up from random blue collar guys (the demographic I'd rather get thumbs up from). The Mini...well the complete opposite of that.

 

[BrntWS6]

Not all of us care about 1/4 mile times. Drag racing frankly takes a lot less driver skill than tracking a car. I know which one I prefer, but I'm sure there are others who have their own preference...as you said.

I never said everyone cares about 1/4 mile. I specifically recognised if turns are your thing great, different strokes. I said MOST in the car scene prefer 1/4 mile as THE standard. But my original point leading to all this is mini coopers are slow, and they are.

 

[ormandj]

You can put a LS in a miata and run 10s and lower easily for less than a Corvette

I never said everyone cares about 1/4 mile. I specifically recognised if turns are your thing great, different strokes. I said MOST in the car scene prefer 1/4 mile as THE standard. But my original point leading to all this is mini coopers are slow, and they are.

What 'car scene'? It's different everywhere. I've had quick cars in the 1/4 and quick cars on the local track (1.82 miles and 11 turns), and some quick on both. At the end of the day, lighter cars are better at both, adding HP only helps both up to a certain point, and then it hurts. Less weight wins every category, and higher power to weight covers the rest, until tires and brakes can't keep up.

 

[Majestic]

I never said everyone cares about 1/4 mile. I specifically recognised if turns are your thing great, different strokes. I said MOST in the car scene prefer 1/4 mile as THE standard. But my original point leading to all this is mini coopers are slow, and they are.

1/4 mile is just an easy universal standard for general performance.
It’s the automotive equivalent of asking “how much can you bench?”.

 

[BrntWS6]

You can put a LS in a miata and run 10s and lower easily for less than a Corvette


What 'car scene'? It's different everywhere. I've had quick cars in the 1/4 and quick cars on the local track (1.82 miles and 11 turns), and some quick on both. At the end of the day, lighter cars are better at both, adding HP only helps both up to a certain point, and then it hurts. Less weight wins every category, and higher power to weight covers the rest, until tires and brakes can't keep up.

I can do the same thing to a '71 ford pinto for even less. Same tired argument has been going on forever. At the end of the day its a pos pinto no one cares about.

All the good car scenes.

 

[BrntWS6]

universal standard.

Yup

 

[Goin2drt]

Hey if handling is your thing great, im sure they are zippy cars in the twisties. But here in America we are concerned with 1/4 mile acceleration. Being involved in the muscle car scene since the 90s most guys could give a shit about how fast they can make it around the track. 14s in the quarter mile is okay for my wifes car i guess.

Nah...I will take Nurburgring times all day long over a 1/4 mile. Ring times are how great is your car, 1/4 mile is how big is your....well you know the word. Unless you actually are going to the drag strip, A great straight line car is just that, one dimensional.

Plain and simple the Turbo is in the Jeep and in mass production for one reason, the nanny state. The 2.0 that is in every car manufacturer these days is for just that. When a manufacturer cares about a turbo performance engine other than emissions and mileage it puts in a worthy turbo.

 

[twisty]

There have been multiple dyno runs showing the same thing, the power differences aren't really up for debate. Value, perhaps, but not power. It's especially notable at higher elevations, as the difference is larger, but go drive a 2.0 and 3.6 JLUR w/ 8 speed (as much apples to apples as possible) back to back, and you'll feel the difference immediately. This is exactly what I did, and I'm happy with my decision on the 2.0. I'm not expecting to save money with it, or necessarily even get better mileage. I do have more usable power though, and even slinging my heavy 315/70R17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers, it's a hoot to drive. The 8 speed and the 2.0 make a great combo. Not that the 3.6 is bad, but it definitely is down on power, and the higher redline doesn't matter anywhere near as much with 8 gears.

Not sure about the debate part as you are. I've read multiple reviews on this site and others as well as mag reviews saying they really didnt see a difference, others said they liked one part of one motor and and another part of the other which made it really tuff to decide. Glad you like yours though, that's what it's all about.

 

[twisty]

Hey if handling is your thing great, im sure they are zippy cars in the twisties. But here in America we are concerned with 1/4 mile acceleration. Being involved in the muscle car scene since the 90s most guys could give a shit about how fast they can make it around the track. 14s in the quarter mile is okay for my wifes car i guess.

To each his own. I.d like a powerful motor AND a great handling car. It might depend on where you live. I can say that there are a few mountain roads here in AZ that that mini coop would be an unreal blast. All turns, a big motor would be a total waste on that road, but getting there would be a blast too. Bet my jeep would be fun too, hmmmm got to get out there soon.

BTW I also want a vehicle that doesnt require bringing it to the dealer for every little thing. My bud says even oil changes HAVE to be done by them with the mini??

Also I dont think the Gladiator offers a 2.0 as an option, why??

 

[twisty]

Nah...I will take Nurburgring times all day long over a 1/4 mile. Ring times are how great is your car, 1/4 mile is how big is your....well you know the word. Unless you actually are going to the drag strip, A great straight line car is just that, one dimensional.

Plain and simple the Turbo is in the Jeep and in mass production for one reason, the nanny state. The 2.0 that is in every car manufacturer these days is for just that. When a manufacturer cares about a turbo performance engine other than emissions and mileage it puts in a worthy turbo.

IDK, arent there cars out there with both motor and handling? A great handling car with no motor sounds pretty one dimensional to me as well.

I agree on the nanny state comment. We all want better mpg but at what price? Small zingy motors with lots more failure points and costly upkeep with batteries? Sounds counter productive. Love my 3.6 but I'd take a 5L or more over it. Still it's hard not to like that 3.6 with an 8 speed.

 

[Majestic]

To each his own. I.d like a powerful motor AND a great handling car. It might depend on where you live. I can say that there are a few mountain roads here in AZ that that mini coop would be an unreal blast. All turns, a big motor would be a total waste on that road, but getting there would be a blast too. Bet my jeep would be fun too, hmmmm got to get out there soon.

BTW I also want a vehicle that doesnt require bringing it to the dealer for every little thing. My bud says even oil changes HAVE to be done by them with the mini??

Also I dont think the Gladiator offers a 2.0 as an option, why??

My Mini saw the dealer a lot. I will say their customer service is light years ahead of FCA's or Ford's. You can buy a $25K Mini and get treated like you bought a $75K BMW. Mini's customer service almost negates their horrendous vehicle quality.

I absolutely dread getting anything done at a domestic dealer. Their scheduling is always 3 weeks out, then they won't bother ordering parts until you bring it in, and it's always a fight to get a loaner.

 

[twisty]

You can put a LS in a miata and run 10s and lower easily for less than a Corvette


What 'car scene'? It's different everywhere. I've had quick cars in the 1/4 and quick cars on the local track (1.82 miles and 11 turns), and some quick on both. At the end of the day, lighter cars are better at both, adding HP only helps both up to a certain point, and then it hurts. Less weight wins every category, and higher power to weight covers the rest, until tires and brakes can't keep up.

I think for many with powerful vehicles part of the fun is staying within the boundary's of tires and brakes. I used to race a CR500AF dirt bike on nasty off road single track. There is no way you can use all the power on those trails, not even close. But figuring out how to make the benefits of all that power over a lesser powered bike had a high degree of satisfaction. Thinking cars are the same way with SOME people.

 

[BrntWS6]

To each his own. I.d like a powerful motor AND a great handling car. It might depend on where you live. I can say that there are a few mountain roads here in AZ that that mini coop would be an unreal blast. All turns, a big motor would be a total waste on that road, but getting there would be a blast too. Bet my jeep would be fun too, hmmmm got to get out there soon.

BTW I also want a vehicle that doesnt require bringing it to the dealer for every little thing. My bud says even oil changes HAVE to be done by them with the mini??

Also I dont think the Gladiator offers a 2.0 as an option, why??

I certainly would not ignore improving the suspension on a car, not what i am saying at all. My trans am has koni adjustables, bmr springs, sway bars and LCAs....i addressed the basics. But it just is not my primary concern.

Quick search for mini oil change, did not see anything special to require going to the dealer for an oil change. Maybe someone with a mini can comment.

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