TrailRecon drops the Diesel

[Zandcwhite]

Why?

Most European countries limit towing vehicles to 80 km/h (49MPH), and Europeans tow with ˜5% tongue weight because of that.

In the US the voluntary standards (J2807) call for driver + pax + 70 lbs of gear + 10% tongue weight. And people here tow routinely at 80MPH+.

I don't understand the arguments being made. We have 2 vehicles Bronco Raptor and Wrangler Unlimited that using US norms and standards are rated at 4,500lbs and 3,500 lbs.

What good is it to invoke foreign countries with different norms and standards for one of the vehicles to say it can tow more? For all I know, with 5% tongue weight, no pax and 49MPH speed limit the Bronco Raptor can tow 10,000 lbs. It is a ridiculous argument.

With the parameters you described, you could likely tow 50k lbs with either vehicle. We all watched a tundra pull a ~300k space shuttle, easy if you go slow and it's flat. I've personally seen a buddy move ~30klb hay trailers around his ranch with an old cj. Hypothetical maximums are pointless. In all these towing threads, nobody has been able to explain zj's and wj's getting a higher tow rating than the JLU, base Bronco, or Bronco raptor. The zj had the same suspension set up front and rear with weak stamped steel arms, thin mounts, weak axles, far worse brakes, 1,500lb less weight, a unibody, etc. Everything about it was inferior in a towing application. It handled towing far worse in the real world as well. We can speculate as to why it got a higher rating until we are blue in the face, but there is not a single, logical reason a zj would be a better tow rig period. We can pretend to know why all JLU's get the same rating despite major differences that improve towing capabilities between a base sport and a Rubicon diesel, 4xe, and 392 from axle strength to gearing to brakes to power to spring rate, and even weight. If 3500 lbs is the safe limit in a base sport, it logically cannot be the same for a vehicle with a half dozen improvements that clearly effect sway resistance, stopping, accelerating, and load supporting. In the truck world they rate them all over the board based on everything from engine choice to axle gearing, and yet we are supposed to believe none of that matters because jeep didn't bother to certify them any different? The JL isn't some magic unicorn with an off road only suspension that is completely unaffected by powertrain improvements, axle upgrades, brake upgrades, spring rate, weight, or gearing.

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[Paulguy100]

Why?

Most European countries limit towing vehicles to 80 km/h (49MPH), and Europeans tow with ˜5% tongue weight because of that.

In the US the voluntary standards (J2807) call for driver + pax + 70 lbs of gear + 10% tongue weight. And people here tow routinely at 80MPH+.

I don't understand the arguments being made. We have 2 vehicles Bronco Raptor and Wrangler Unlimited that using US norms and standards are rated at 4,500lbs and 3,500 lbs.

What good is it to invoke foreign countries with different norms and standards for one of the vehicles to say it can tow more? For all I know, with 5% tongue weight, no pax and 49MPH speed limit the Bronco Raptor can tow 10,000 lbs. It is a ridiculous argument.

I apologize for my ridiculous comment. My only point is the diesel has low numbers not due to capabilities, but because of vehicle classification.

 

[21DieselRubicon]

Brad/TrailRecon should have recorded the overheating; safe assumption he had video equipment in his rig, right? The dude has time, on camera, to promo his relabeled coffee but not time to record something as serious, as substantive as overheating of his JLURD under load? His channel is TrailRecon (think: “off-roading and over-landing”) and not some shill for rebranded coffee, tees, caps and the newest, shiniest 4x4.
Oh, wait….I’m mistaken. My bad.

very good points. I’m over the relabeled coffee comment.

 

[gato]

I apologize for my ridiculous comment. My only point is the diesel has low numbers not due to capabilities, but because of vehicle classification.

Hey Paul. I'm sorry if my response didn't come out right. I did not mean to imply your comments were ridiculous. Hearing all sides of an issue is beneficial to all. I just have been stressed out when I typed that.

I just wanted to add my 2c on the idea that if one standard does not provide the desired rating, just quote another one. We should be happy that in the US we have an objective voluntary standard that most automaker use to rate towing. It is a value to us.

Again, my apologies for coming at your comment the wrong way. Happy Jeeping.

 

[Koolkarguy]

Anyone with the diesel consider upgrading the cooling system? I wonder if there are any radiator manufacturers that have some more robust options for those that are modifying these rigs with bigger wheels, heavier loads etc.

I heard there is a company building a better cooling system for the diesel but haven't been able to locate it yet? If anyone has the info please share would be interesting to see what they have to offer

 

[TX_Ovrlnd]

I heard there is a company building a better cooling system for the diesel but haven't been able to locate it yet? If anyone has the info please share would be interesting to see what they have to offer

I think someone said Bullet Proof Diesel was toying around with something, their website just shows an EGR cooler.

 

[4x4snowmachinejeep]

I think he's a great host on his shows, they are produced better than amateur but he needs content and anyone can make an excuse not to use a product, I understand and I hope he's not bad mouthing our engine just for eye balls, I put 6k miles on a Jeep diesel in less than 3 months- no problems only pleasure each time I hit the button.

p.s. we will not let him back in the 3.0 club

 

[john adams]

Trade not working out so well. Shocker: The 4xe has more issues.

 

[Geos7812]

That diesel should have been a CUMMINS. We all know it. A Fiat diesel is a piece of crap. And add in all the extra smog restrictors and it just makes it worse.

Every YouTube mechanic video on that engine is very clear about how it has to be babied.

They did us a disservice. It could have been a Cummins. Maybe one day we will get a Cummins.

Cummins.

I get the fascination with the Cummins brand. However, not all Cummins are equal. The Cummins in the Titan HD was an absolute DOG! Everyone was excited about that 5.0L and turns out no one bought it.

 

[BroncoHound]

I get the fascination with the Cummins brand. However, not all Cummins are equal. The Cummins in the Titan HD was an absolute DOG! Everyone was excited about that 5.0L and turns out no one bought it.

I don't think that's fair to lay at the feet of Cummins. It certainly didn't help matters that Nissan put it into a 5/8-ton pickup (trying to create a segment that nobody asked for) and was the most hideous thing to be offered as a form of locomotion since the Pontiac Aztec (which was so ugly it killed the entire Pontiac brand). I mean, I know looks are subjective and all, but it's pretty obvious a different design team was in charge of each body panel on the Titan XD and they clearly didn't talk to each other.

That motor was also rated at 310hp/555tq. For comparison, those are the same numbers of the common rail 5.9L Cummins I6 offered in the 2003-2005 3rd generation Dodge 3/4 and 1-ton pickups. The engine itself is far from a dog; the vehicle it was put in was.

The 5.0ISV Cummins V8 certainly isn't one of their most popular sellers, but it did have a prior market in medium-duty applications and is still offered in such, so the discontinued partnership obviously wasn't due to a lack of production on Cummins' side. And I personally never heard of anything really bad about that powerplant. But the Cummins badge on the fender didn't pull the swarms of Ford, Chevy, and Dodge buyers over to an otherwise poorly designed pickup like Nissan hoped it would, and they probably couldn't afford to keep paying Cummins a premium for the brand recognition.

So, an apples to oranges comparison to the Wrangler, IMO. And, with an obvious caveat: I'm a Cummins fanboy. I've had several, they've all been incredible. I still own one. But I certainly don't think Cummins is the ONLY diesel engine manufacturer that can turn out a quality powerplant. I'm hopeful for this VM Motari motor; it has a similar commercial background to many of the Cummins engines that have been put into passenger vehicles. If the world were mine to do as I pleased, would I rather a 4BT Cummins have been designed for the JL? Yeah, probably, but mostly just for familiarity and recognition sake. But you're never too old to learn something new, and I'm personally pretty excited to get to know a little italian diesel V6.

 

[grimmjeeper]

I get the fascination with the Cummins brand. However, not all Cummins are equal. The Cummins in the Titan HD was an absolute DOG! Everyone was excited about that 5.0L and turns out no one bought it.

Yeah, I looked at the Titan when it came out. But the 12,000 pound tow rating really killed it. That and the mileage was no better than a 3/4 ton for basically the same cost, there was no reason to choose it over the 3/4 ton.

I did read something the other day about GM upping the tow rating of the Silverado with the 3.0 diesel to 13,000 pounds. That may convince me to sell the F250...

 

[SolarWizard]

Yeah, I looked at the Titan when it came out. But the 12,000 pound tow rating really killed it. That and the mileage was no better than a 3/4 ton for basically the same cost, there was no reason to choose it over the 3/4 ton.

I did read something the other day about GM upping the tow rating of the Silverado with the 3.0 diesel to 13,000 pounds. That may convince me to sell the F250...

having pulled 12k with a half ton before I can say I would never ever do that again

 

[grimmjeeper]

having pulled 12k with a half ton before I can say I would never ever do that again

I wouldn't either. But it's getting to the point where a JLU on a trailer is manageable behind a half ton. That's under 10,000 pounds and well within the range of what a half ton can manage.

 

[STW]

...the Pontiac Aztec (which was so ugly it killed the entire Pontiac brand)...

I thought we were blaming Walter White for killing off Pontiac with his long suffering khaki Aztec

To the original question, I can see how TrailRecon wants to go through each model of the JL and test it out. His buying and selling Jeeps and Broncos may sound like each one fails and forces him to buy another, but he really just wants to try out each one. His show gives him a completely different reason to change Jeeps than you or I would have.

Or maybe Ford got to Brad?

 

[Deleted member 59498]

It makes his show useless and fake.

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