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grimmjeeper

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I have doubts the 3500lbs rating is due to the government considering the Wrangler a convertible. If that was the case, how does the Gladiator get away with a 7000lbs tow rating when it has the same ability to lose doors and roof?

I think it's frame/wheelbase dependent mostly, but that's just my speculation.
It's a suspension limitation.

The soft suspension in the Wrangler lets a heavy trailer sway too much. The Gladiator uses a variation of the Ram 1500 rear suspension which is much better for towing.
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00 Trans Ram

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I have doubts the 3500lbs rating is due to the government considering the Wrangler a convertible. If that was the case, how does the Gladiator get away with a 7000lbs tow rating when it has the same ability to lose doors and roof?

I think it's frame/wheelbase dependent mostly, but that's just my speculation.
Sorry if I've responded to this already (been putting the same thing on a lot of threads). The tow rating in EU and Australia is 5500lbs for the Wrangler.

Also, tow ratings are done according to an SAE J2807 standard. It's not a government thing. Just all the manufacturers coming together and saying, "We'll all follow this rule."

My guess as to the rating is that the EU/Aus have different ratings for "braked" vs "non-braked" trailers. Since braking distance is the only thing this affects, then it must be that the Wrangler somehow doesn't stop a trailer >3500lbs safely if the trailer doesn't have brakes. But, the suspension, engine, frame, etc. are all fine up to 5500lbs.
 

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grimmjeeper

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It's not suspension. It's brakes. See my post above.
The Gladiator has a much higher tow rating with the same barakes.

It's not brakes. It's suspension.
 

Zandcwhite

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The Gladiator has a much higher tow rating with the same barakes.

It's not brakes. It's suspension.
It’s Jeep’s laziness, the 4xe has a much stiffer rear suspension and gets the same rating. It’s all they felt they “needed” to certify all wranglers to. As I’ve stated before, the wj had just as soft if not softer suspension, narrower track width, shorter wheelbase, inferior trans/axles/ control arms/ brakes, and was a unibody that weighed ~1,200lbs less than a 4xe yet had a 5k lb tow rating. Jeep figures owners won’t need to tow more than 3500lbs and it’s easier to certify the entire model line the same.
 

grimmjeeper

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It’s Jeep’s laziness, the 4xe has a much stiffer rear suspension and gets the same rating. It’s all they felt they “needed” to certify all wranglers to. As I’ve stated before, the wj had just as soft if not softer suspension, narrower track width, shorter wheelbase, inferior trans/axles/ control arms/ brakes, and was a unibody that weighed ~1,200lbs less than a 4xe yet had a 5k lb tow rating. Jeep figures owners won’t need to tow more than 3500lbs and it’s easier to certify the entire model line the same.
Spring rate is just one small part of the suspension. The JL has a rear suspension designed for working well off road. That design doesn't do well controlling a trailer.

My old XJ with smaller weaker brakes, shorter wheel base, and less power had more towing capacity than the Wrangler. 5,000 pounds vs 3,500. Those leaf springs were good for managing a trailer. A lot better than the coil setup in the Wrangler.

The Gladiator has the advantage of a long wheelbase. But it's rear suspension is also based on the Ram 1500, which is designed to carry a lot more weight and control a trailer much better.

It's not the engine. It's not the transmission. It's not the wheelbase. It's not the brakes. Hell, in the JL it's not even the mediocre cooling system. It's the suspension.
 

Zandcwhite

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Spring rate is just one small part of the suspension. The JL has a rear suspension designed for working well off road. That design doesn't do well controlling a trailer.

My old XJ with smaller weaker brakes, shorter wheel base, and less power had more towing capacity than the Wrangler. 5,000 pounds vs 3,500. Those leaf springs were good for managing a trailer. A lot better than the coil setup in the Wrangler.

The Gladiator has the advantage of a long wheelbase. But it's rear suspension is also based on the Ram 1500, which is designed to carry a lot more weight and control a trailer much better.

It's not the engine. It's not the transmission. It's not the wheelbase. It's not the brakes. Hell, in the JL it's not even the mediocre cooling system. It's the suspension.
Zj's and wj's had an inferior version of the same rear coil spring suspension and both were rated at 5k. The ram has basically the same rear suspension set up, with a higher spring rate. Upper and lower control arms and a track bar. It's rated at 10,500 lbs in my truck(no way I'd want to tow anywhere near that in the jl). It is clearly not just the suspension design. Most of the planet gets Wranglers rated at 5500lbs, but I'm sure it's unsafe to go over 3500lbs here... because that's all they certified them to. Looks pretty similar to me, save for slight different arms and springs.

dims.jpeg
 

grimmjeeper

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Zj's and wj's had an inferior version of the same rear coil spring suspension and both were rated at 5k. The ram has basically the same rear suspension set up, with a higher spring rate. Upper and lower control arms and a track bar. It's rated at 10,500 lbs in my truck(no way I'd want to tow anywhere near that in the jl). It is clearly not just the suspension design. Most of the planet gets Wranglers rated at 5500lbs, but I'm sure it's unsafe to go over 3500lbs here... because that's all they certified them to. Looks pretty similar to me, save for slight different arms and springs.

dims.jpeg
Europe restricts towing vehicles to 100 km/hr (60 MPH) which accounts for the increased towing capacity.

Also, the geometry of the Ram is significantly different than the ZJ or JL. Likewise the ZJ is significantly different than the JL. Sure, they're all 4 link with a panhard bar. But the geometry makes a lot more difference than you may realize.
 

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Zandcwhite

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Europe restricts towing vehicles to 100 km/hr (60 MPH) which accounts for the increased towing capacity.

Also, the geometry of the Ram is significantly different than the ZJ or JL. Likewise the ZJ is significantly different than the JL. Sure, they're all 4 link with a panhard bar. But the geometry makes a lot more difference than you may realize.
ZJ arms were shorter but the relationship between lengths of the upper and lower and their mounting points were basically the same. The ram I’ll give you is pretty different with a longer lower and a shorter upper significantly effecting the handling. The JL will 100% tow better in any conditions with any size trailer in my experience than a zj regardless of rating.
 

Paulguy100

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Moot point. With any trailer with more than 3,500 lbs putting the recommended 10-15% of the weight on the tongue + driver + misc would exceed the Diesel Wrangler's abysmal payload anyway.
Check European Specs. Same Jeep.
 

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Europe restricts towing vehicles to 100 km/hr (60 MPH) which accounts for the increased towing capacity.
It's even worse than that. A trailer above ~1600 lbs is limited to
Check European Specs. Same Jeep.
Understood, but you're severely limited in how fast you can drive when pulling a trailer there. That would have a major impact on a vehicle's tow rating.
 

00 Trans Ram

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The Gladiator has a much higher tow rating with the same barakes.

It's not brakes. It's suspension.
You sure? Here is mine with ~450lbs tongue weight and a 5500lb boat.

Now, I happen to kinda agree with you. I mean, these are also the same brakes (at least same dimension rotors and both 2-piston, sliding pin calipers) on the Ram 1500. But both EU and Aus list the tow rating on a Wrangler for a trailer WITH brakes as 5500lbs. But, for a trailer WITHOUT brakes, it's only a rating of 1600lbs. https://www.autotrader.com.au/jeep/wrangler-unlimited/towing-capacity/2019

Frankly, I think the whole thing is kinda wonky. At the end of the day, I've done research and I've modified the Jeep for towing (removed rear tire, made sure trailer is properly balanced, etc.). Just like going out on a trail, we can all talk about whether or not the Jeep will make it to the end, but the only way to really find out, is to go do it.

20210523_111221.jpg
 

gato

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Check European Specs. Same Jeep.
Why?

Most European countries limit towing vehicles to 80 km/h (49MPH), and Europeans tow with ˜5% tongue weight because of that.

In the US the voluntary standards (J2807) call for driver + pax + 70 lbs of gear + 10% tongue weight. And people here tow routinely at 80MPH+.

I don't understand the arguments being made. We have 2 vehicles Bronco Raptor and Wrangler Unlimited that using US norms and standards are rated at 4,500lbs and 3,500 lbs.

What good is it to invoke foreign countries with different norms and standards for one of the vehicles to say it can tow more? For all I know, with 5% tongue weight, no pax and 49MPH speed limit the Bronco Raptor can tow 10,000 lbs. It is a ridiculous argument.
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