Track bar sheared off at the weld. I feel like I’m cursed with my new JL

[Rob]

Hey Brian, I also have the exact problems with my JLUR with a build date of 3/18. Thanks for all your work. Just cant understand how this passed inspection. Very interested in how this will be resolved.

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[Capt-Zoom]

Repost for those needing the info. From the NHTSA website

 

[old8tora]

Update: spent this morning at the dealer service dept. They didnt seem very interested in the weld issues at first. Then, when I finally showed them the welds in question (both front and rear track bars), to name a few, they took some pictures. Nothing was done for the loose steering even though I brought in a list of TSBs and one specifically addressing steering that I heard only takes 10 minutes to complete. So now I have to drive back there again for that update.

After driving the vehicle home I drafted a quick email to the service manager and service advisor with a few short questions. About 5 minutes after sending that email I received a call from a guy at Chrysler. We spoke about the steering and welds issues and I sent him an email with a link to my images and a document that I had drafted that compiled two independent welder's inspection of the welds, notably the track bar bracket.

Apparently, the file and images are being added to a Star Case. I will report back regarding what happens next.

If it helps others, here is what the two weld shops (they are mainly automotive repair shops) said about my track bar bracket and other welds:

"...Findings summary (summarized by independent, professional welders noted above):

The track bar bracket welds demonstrate improper and unsafe welding techniques resulting in poor weld fusion and penetration for certain critical parts on the above-mentioned vehicle. The front left track bar bracket was the most serious issue inspected. The rear track bar brackets (both sides) were also serious, showing generous porosity throughout each side of the rear track bar bracket welds. Deep weld porosity, slag inclusion, and initial signs of rust were noted and not limited to only these specific welds on this vehicle. Exposed, non-coated weld joints with excessive slag are not typical on new vehicles, as rust, pitting, and failure of welds are often the result over a short period of time under certain elements like salt, moisture, etc.

Possible reasons for weld issues found on this vehicle:

The voltage, gas shielding, arc blow, flux, or wire feed settings from the manufacturing weld machine/robotic welder was simply not calibrated correctly throughout the weld process for the vehicle frame. The welding current was also likely set too high, causing spatter. Contamination and/or loss of calibrated gas shield settings is highly probable. Gas flow also likely too high considering the large amounts of spatter and weld line inconsistencies inspected.

Extended findings:

The amount of deep-cluster porosity ("holes") and the severity of porosity found on the front track bar bracket compromises this weld/bracket entirely. The calibration of the weld line on the top of the bracket is misaligned and the weld just barely sits on top of the top edge of this bracket, compromising the weld penetration/toes and coverage. This issue is exacerbated by at least one track bar bracket under-weld (track bar bracket underneath side welds) that has some undercutting, toe overlap, and weld spatter. The same track bar bracket side weld (inner, closest side to front coil spring) begins the weld as a large round glob on one end. This same weld then tapers down to a very narrow weld-depth, ending at nearly the same depth/thickness as the actual bracket lip, causing poor material coverage throughout. This under-weld on the bracket is simply not thick enough (6.4mm minimum, continuous diameter weld) to provide enough weld integrity to the bracket. The larger than allowed sections of porosity on the outer ledge of this weld are also severely concave relative to the rest of this particular weld and the weld lacks enough material to safely penetrate and securely “hold” the weld. The bottom edge of this weld is also showing signs of rust along the weld line.

The same type of porous welds can be found on the rear track bar brackets and other weld joints throughout the vehicle, more so on the driver’s side of the vehicle.

Remedy to correct improper welds:

Correcting these welds would require grinding/smoothing the entire weld joint on each of the welded sides of the track bar brackets (front single and rear double-sided brackets) and reaching the toes of the weld at acceptable points within the weld joints past the point of porosity. Alternatively, a complete separation of this lap weld and re-welding may be needed considering the severity of deep-cluster porosity depth and lack of weld material thickness or proper weld joints in these under-bracket welds. Either option would be decided based on further inspection.

The frame in general, where welds are exposed and not painted or coated, should be lightly sanded, cleaned with proper solvent, and then coated with a rust-proof undercoating as designated or specified by the dealership or FCA, as many weld areas are currently susceptible to premature pitting and rusting.

Additional notes:

FCA standards for welds, based on our research: FCA spec is 6.4mm (sum of diameters) per 25mm of weld.
Additionally, automotive single pores are generally only allowed up to d ≤ 0.2 a. Maximum area of porosity is allowed up to ≤1% of the projected weld line. Several of the inspected areas noted above on this vehicle are well over this allowance.

The welds described for the vehicle above demonstrate the following issues, as listed by inspectors:
1) Gas pores and extreme, deep-cluster porosity
2) Deep weld line slag inclusions
3) Weld spatter
4) Lack of fusion and/or root penetration
5) Weld misalignment (set-up irregularities)
6) Lack of inter-run fusion
7) Excessive/improper cap height at start or end of weld points
8) Poor stop/starts along weld lines
9) Excessive weaving
10) Incomplete welds
11) Poor weld restarts or over-irregularities at restart

The dealership Sales Manager and/or Service Manager acknowledge the receipt of this document describing the issues above.​

You are through and exact . Everyone thanks you for your diligent research .

 

[old8tora]

Hey Brian, I also have the exact problems with my JLUR with a build date of 3/18. Thanks for all your work. Just cant understand how this passed inspection. Very interested in how this will be resolved.

What inspection ?

 

[old8tora]

Repost for those needing the info. From the NHTSA website

Doesn't the original OP's incident qualify as a crash ? ( Or , does an original OP's incident need to be reproduced again ? )

 

[Capt-Zoom]

If you have weld issues or for that matter any issue please see this thread.
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/nhtsa-development.12067/

 

[Capt-Zoom]

Update: spent this morning at the dealer service dept. They didnt seem very interested in the weld issues at first. Then, when I finally showed them the welds in question (both front and rear track bars), to name a few, they took some pictures. Nothing was done for the loose steering even though I brought in a list of TSBs and one specifically addressing steering that I heard only takes 10 minutes to complete. So now I have to drive back there again for that update.

After driving the vehicle home I drafted a quick email to the service manager and service advisor with a few short questions. About 5 minutes after sending that email I received a call from a guy at Chrysler. We spoke about the steering and welds issues and I sent him an email with a link to my images and a document that I had drafted that compiled two independent welder's inspection of the welds, notably the track bar bracket.

Apparently, the file and images are being added to a Star Case. I will report back regarding what happens next.

If it helps others, here is what the two weld shops (they are mainly automotive repair shops) said about my track bar bracket and other welds:

"...Findings summary (summarized by independent, professional welders noted above):

The track bar bracket welds demonstrate improper and unsafe welding techniques resulting in poor weld fusion and penetration for certain critical parts on the above-mentioned vehicle. The front left track bar bracket was the most serious issue inspected. The rear track bar brackets (both sides) were also serious, showing generous porosity throughout each side of the rear track bar bracket welds. Deep weld porosity, slag inclusion, and initial signs of rust were noted and not limited to only these specific welds on this vehicle. Exposed, non-coated weld joints with excessive slag are not typical on new vehicles, as rust, pitting, and failure of welds are often the result over a short period of time under certain elements like salt, moisture, etc.

Possible reasons for weld issues found on this vehicle:

The voltage, gas shielding, arc blow, flux, or wire feed settings from the manufacturing weld machine/robotic welder was simply not calibrated correctly throughout the weld process for the vehicle frame. The welding current was also likely set too high, causing spatter. Contamination and/or loss of calibrated gas shield settings is highly probable. Gas flow also likely too high considering the large amounts of spatter and weld line inconsistencies inspected.

Extended findings:

The amount of deep-cluster porosity ("holes") and the severity of porosity found on the front track bar bracket compromises this weld/bracket entirely. The calibration of the weld line on the top of the bracket is misaligned and the weld just barely sits on top of the top edge of this bracket, compromising the weld penetration/toes and coverage. This issue is exacerbated by at least one track bar bracket under-weld (track bar bracket underneath side welds) that has some undercutting, toe overlap, and weld spatter. The same track bar bracket side weld (inner, closest side to front coil spring) begins the weld as a large round glob on one end. This same weld then tapers down to a very narrow weld-depth, ending at nearly the same depth/thickness as the actual bracket lip, causing poor material coverage throughout. This under-weld on the bracket is simply not thick enough (6.4mm minimum, continuous diameter weld) to provide enough weld integrity to the bracket. The larger than allowed sections of porosity on the outer ledge of this weld are also severely concave relative to the rest of this particular weld and the weld lacks enough material to safely penetrate and securely “hold” the weld. The bottom edge of this weld is also showing signs of rust along the weld line.

The same type of porous welds can be found on the rear track bar brackets and other weld joints throughout the vehicle, more so on the driver’s side of the vehicle.

Remedy to correct improper welds:

Correcting these welds would require grinding/smoothing the entire weld joint on each of the welded sides of the track bar brackets (front single and rear double-sided brackets) and reaching the toes of the weld at acceptable points within the weld joints past the point of porosity. Alternatively, a complete separation of this lap weld and re-welding may be needed considering the severity of deep-cluster porosity depth and lack of weld material thickness or proper weld joints in these under-bracket welds. Either option would be decided based on further inspection.

The frame in general, where welds are exposed and not painted or coated, should be lightly sanded, cleaned with proper solvent, and then coated with a rust-proof undercoating as designated or specified by the dealership or FCA, as many weld areas are currently susceptible to premature pitting and rusting.

Additional notes:

FCA standards for welds, based on our research: FCA spec is 6.4mm (sum of diameters) per 25mm of weld.
Additionally, automotive single pores are generally only allowed up to d ≤ 0.2 a. Maximum area of porosity is allowed up to ≤1% of the projected weld line. Several of the inspected areas noted above on this vehicle are well over this allowance.

The welds described for the vehicle above demonstrate the following issues, as listed by inspectors:
1) Gas pores and extreme, deep-cluster porosity
2) Deep weld line slag inclusions
3) Weld spatter
4) Lack of fusion and/or root penetration
5) Weld misalignment (set-up irregularities)
6) Lack of inter-run fusion
7) Excessive/improper cap height at start or end of weld points
8) Poor stop/starts along weld lines
9) Excessive weaving
10) Incomplete welds
11) Poor weld restarts or over-irregularities at restart

The dealership Sales Manager and/or Service Manager acknowledge the receipt of this document describing the issues above.​

Thank you for your hard work on this. I'm also dealing with it.

 

[NCJeepn73]

@old8tora @Rob @Capt-Zoom

I've not heard anything today regarding the welds from the contact at Chrysler that reached out yesterday. I've only received an email from the dealership today asking me to come back in (even though I was there yesterday) to allow them to do the Body Control Module Reconfiguration per TSB 08-082-18 to potentially correct the steering. I mentioned that TSB twice while at the service dept yesterday and they showed no interest in doing it, even though several others said their dealer took care of the update in 10-15 minutes.

@JeepCares has also not reached out -- unless JeepCares is the rep from Chrysler that called yesterday, which he didn't mention that he was JeepCares on the phone, just that he was from Chrysler. I'm giving it another day before I start working with the websites wanting to publish this. They were talking to me about a face-to-face interview and video created where we have the Jeep on a lift, etc.

 

[Capt-Zoom]

@old8tora @Rob @Capt-Zoom

I've not heard anything today regarding the welds from the contact at Chrysler that reached out yesterday. I've only received an email from the dealership today asking me to come back in (even though I was there yesterday) to allow them to do the Body Control Module Reconfiguration per TSB 08-082-18 to potentially correct the steering. I mentioned that TSB twice while at the service dept yesterday and they showed no interest in doing it, even though several others said their dealer took care of the update in 10-15 minutes.

Speaking to the weld issues, I'm about to go viral with all this and have spoken to two large auto and Jeep publications/websites that wanted the story. I also work as a Senior Advisor for online reputation management and SEO. I have access to enterprise tools that will continually post and spread this information like the plague online. I really don't want to do that though. I just want the vehicle to be safe and free of critical steering and suspension defects.

@JeepCares has also not reached out -- unless JeepCares is the rep from Chrysler that called yesterday, which he didn't mention that he was JeepCares on the phone, just that he was from Chrysler. I'm giving it another day before I start working with the websites wanting to publish this. They were talking to me about a face-to-face interview and video created where we have the Jeep on a lift, etc.

Again, I don't want to be the mouthpiece for this issue, as I don't particularly care for the attention. But I paid $52,300 for this vehicle and I can't even drive it off road or to the mountains for fear it will kill me or my family. A track bar shearing off 12 miles deep in the woods or going down a steep mountain highway isn't how I want to go out.

I feel the same but if FCA is going to drag their feet and sweep it under the rug i say go viral and wage war.

 

[Dewey]

@old8tora @Rob @Capt-Zoom

I've not heard anything today regarding the welds from the contact at Chrysler that reached out yesterday. I've only received an email from the dealership today asking me to come back in (even though I was there yesterday) to allow them to do the Body Control Module Reconfiguration per TSB 08-082-18 to potentially correct the steering. I mentioned that TSB twice while at the service dept yesterday and they showed no interest in doing it, even though several others said their dealer took care of the update in 10-15 minutes.

Speaking to the weld issues, I'm about to go viral with all this and have spoken to two large auto and Jeep publications/websites that wanted the story. I also work as a Senior Advisor for online reputation management and SEO. I have access to enterprise tools that will continually post and spread this information like the plague online. I really don't want to do that though. I just want the vehicle to be safe and free of critical steering and suspension defects.

@JeepCares has also not reached out -- unless JeepCares is the rep from Chrysler that called yesterday, which he didn't mention that he was JeepCares on the phone, just that he was from Chrysler. I'm giving it another day before I start working with the websites wanting to publish this. They were talking to me about a face-to-face interview and video created where we have the Jeep on a lift, etc.

Again, I don't want to be the mouthpiece for this issue, as I don't particularly care for the attention. But I paid $52,300 for this vehicle and I can't even drive it off road or to the mountains for fear it will kill me or my family. A track bar shearing off 12 miles deep in the woods or going down a steep mountain highway isn't how I want to go out.

Is this a joke? If I were so worried about my track bar mount that I couldn't drive my Jeep I'd take my Jeep to a fab shop and have them weld that sucker solid for about $30. All this hype because one guy had a defect.is ridiculous.

Drive your Jeep... Have fun.

 

[NCJeepn73]

Is this a joke? If I were so worried about my track bar mount that I couldn't drive my Jeep I'd take my Jeep to a fab shop and have them weld that sucker solid for about $30. All this hype because one guy had a defect.is ridiculous.

Drive your Jeep... Have fun.

Hey Dewey, please let me know of any dealership that will warranty any third-party welding on a Jeep? There are none. Zero. The dealership does not even weld defects themselves because it voids warranties. Nor do they outsource it to any shop to do. They will only allow FCA certified welder reps do this based on recalls.

Additionally, my JL is leased. Any frame/body modifications I make will void ANY lease agreements making the vehicle non-returnable. I suppose you have not seen the same track bar issue recall/repair and estimated costs for the RAM 2500 a few years ago? $30? Are you kidding? Please search for the video with all the steps to do the job for the 2500. Try more like $400-700 ave. depending on the shop rates.

In all due respect, to diminish such a noticeable and obvious defect (or defects) with hyperbole isn't what's needed here.

 

[Dewey]

Hey Dewey, please let me know of any dealership that will warranty any third-party welding on a Jeep? There are none. Zero. The dealership does not even weld defects themselves because it voids warranties. Nor do they outsource it to any shop to do. They will only allow FCA certified welder reps do this based on recalls.

Additionally, my JL is leased. Any frame/body modifications I make will void ANY lease agreements making the vehicle non-returnable. I suppose you have not seen the same track bar issue recall/repair and estimated costs for the RAM 2500 a few years ago? $30? Are you kidding? Please search for the video with all the steps to do the job for the 2500. Try more like $400-700 ave. depending on the shop rates.

In all due respect, to diminish such a noticeable and obvious defect (or defects) with hyperbole isn't what's needed here.

I'm sorry your having issues.

All I'm saying is... I'd have that sucker welded solid then undercoated. Drive the heck out of it and have fun. When lease is up, return it. Nobody will ever inspect your track bar mount for any mods or welding.

As a 30 year dealership tech I've seen a lot including 5 or 6 customers requesting buy backs and/or rust repairs from undercarriage rust. Every rust claim was explained as surface rust. None of those customers went away happy but it is what it is.

 

[old8tora]

I'm sorry your having issues.

All I'm saying is... I'd have that sucker welded solid then undercoated. Drive the heck out of it and have fun. When lease is up, return it. Nobody will ever inspect your track bar mount for any mods or welding.

As a 30 year dealership tech I've seen a lot including 5 or 6 customers requesting buy backs and/or rust repairs from undercarriage rust. Every rust claim was explained as surface rust. None of those customers went away happy but it is what it is.

Your post is very practical good advice from a good tech ; except the original OP would not have known to do that , he was merely driving along when the track bar sheared off at the weld . That is the event that alerted others .

I view all this from the point of view of ex-military . If this had been a U.S. military contract , every weld would have been properly inspected in the first place . And the contractor would be going all over the world to inspect and repair if a track bar had sheared off at the weld .

But FCA is a European company making HUGE profits , without military contract responsibility to us , so the buyers' only recourse is U.S. government .

 

[stangken]

Your post is very practical good advice from a good tech ; except the original OP would not have known to do that , he was merely driving along when the track bar sheared off at the weld . That is the event that alerted others .

I view all this from the point of view of ex-military . If this had been a U.S. military contract , every weld would have been properly inspected in the first place . And the contractor would be going all over the world to inspect and repair if a track bar had sheared off at the weld .

But FCA is a European company making HUGE profits , without military contract responsibility to us , so the buyers' only recourse is U.S. government .

If this was a US military contract, the Jeep would cost $200,000.

 

[NCJeepn73]

I'm sorry your having issues.

All I'm saying is... I'd have that sucker welded solid then undercoated. Drive the heck out of it and have fun. When lease is up, return it. Nobody will ever inspect your track bar mount for any mods or welding.

As a 30 year dealership tech I've seen a lot including 5 or 6 customers requesting buy backs and/or rust repairs from undercarriage rust. Every rust claim was explained as surface rust. None of those customers went away happy but it is what it is.

That would be great in theory. All the spots on my frame are not surface rust though. If is was it would be easily apparent. I have tons of slag, misaligned welds, horrible penetration, malformed weld caps, spatter, extreme porosity, etc. But your suggestion would mean that I have to get the front track bar prepped and re-welded, rear track bar re-welded, and then get all of the other porous holes throughout the frame sanded down and filled. Then, I'd have to get the entire frame, or pretty decent sections anyway, sanded, cleaned, and undercoated.

And do all this on a lease... a vehicle that's not technically even mine, it's Crysler's property and I'm just "renting" it for a while.

I would really love to love this Jeep and drive the hell out of it. I've owned Wranglers before and loved them.

But I liken this to renting someone's beach home for the summer, a year, whatever timeframe, noticing they need new deck footings and boards in order to fix their weakened deck. Then, I decide, while I'm renting it, to come out of my own pocket with hundreds or thousands to hire workers and fix their decking simply because I'm in the house and renting.

Tbh, my funds are tied up into medical bill's for cancer treatments. I don't have extra cash laying around to fix a new, $53,000 vehicle that's leased.

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