Track bar frame weld issue recall! [Updated with official UA5 recall notice w/ repair procedure]

[NCJeepn73]

Well, after two weeks I got word that my replacement JLUR (because of all the faulty welds and re-welds by FCA) should be at the dealership today. I will be going by to inspect the welds and test driving it to see if the wandering steering persists.

They said it had a dead battery and that's the reason it has been sitting in a train yard for the past two weeks unable to be transported. So, it takes them two weeks to tell me it is a dead battery? That would take all of 2 minutes or less to diagnose, even by myself with my $30 Autozone battery tester.

Again, my confidence slides even further for the Jeep dealership, their contacts regarding transport of the vehicle, or that there is any concern about getting this resolved quickly. Just more of the same.

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[Jeepsterfreak]

And if Rusty's was smart they would pull their reinforcement bracket off the market,....... if the factory welds fail and their bracket fails..... I'll guarantee you they would be named in a lawsuit if a weld fails as would FCA.

This is an excellent point. The Rusty’s bracket is sold as supplemental harware. It is not to be used on a track bar with defective or questionable welds. Not sure if Rusty’s has made this disclaimer. I could even see FCA lawyers arguing the rusty’s bracket contributed to the weld failure after installation.

 

[NCJeepn73]

Even though this is my first post here I feel I can add some insight. I've been on these boards since the 90's.....I'm a Aircraft technician, airworthiness inspector to determine welding for aircraft repairs, and have built many off road Jeeps for over 50 years.
A good inspector can tell just from a photograph how well a weld can be.. to a point.. you can judge bead, weld sink, weld effected area from photos. A more through inspection would require x ray.. fluorescent penetrant inspection is only good for crack detection visually and requires a experienced person not your garden variety auto tech.

Bottom line for me is..... I see some acceptable welds here and some not, by submitted the photos. FCA can do the same depending on their criteria.

One thing FCA won't do is give everyone a new Jeep I can promise you that.

And if Rusty's was smart they would pull their reinforcement bracket off the market,....... if the factory welds fail and their bracket fails..... I'll guarantee you they would be named in a lawsuit if a weld fails as would FCA.

My CWIs used x-ray on several of my welds, namely the track bar and rear sway bar brackets. The track bar bracket failed that inspection, as expected. But any weld looking like a bead of burnt cheese with dozens of holes shouldn't surprise anyone, even with zero weld knowledge.

 

[richk225]

I’m not here to cause a feud of any sorts. But if you can inspect a weld that’s been painted over and possible painted over again by the customer I find that hard to believe. I would never consider a man of your capacity who is certified to inspect aircraft to even consider looking at a cell phone picture to determain if a weld is bad, ONLY after there was a catastrophic failure of the weld in question, only then would you be able to see all that you have mentioned.
UNLESS you are a certified inspector and not a general or even certified ASE certified technician. The one owner had his welds inspected and then the bracket sheared off

 

[richk225]

Very few people knew this was a problem to Jeep JK`s also.BUT these were hard core off road Jeeps. Yes I had seen a rear track bar mount fail on a JK, but it was running 38” tires and being driven like it was stolen. If you look into JKS Manufacturing they make a front and rear track bar supports for “ catastrophic failure of weak OE track bar mount welds”
So Rusty’s isn’t new to this problem

 

[Blown7]

But any weld looking like a bead of burnt cheese with dozens of holes shouldn't surprise anyone, even with zero weld knowledge.

True, but then again unless you have the technical data from FCA that specifies what their criteria is for a bad weld...it is unknown.... they may allow some porosity, and even a "burnt cheese look"..

Without that data the welds can look bad but they may be acceptable to FCA.

All of us can find many pretty pictures of welds on Google..... but in the real world of the frame manufacturer using robots, some of the welds we see may be acceptable. I gotta say some of the repaired fixes don't look pretty either ....but ultimately FCA has to defend them in court eventually. There is no excuse for the weld bead missing the parts totally however...

It will be interesting how FCA handles it.

 

[Capt-Zoom]

True, but then again unless you have the technical data from FCA that specifies what their criteria is for a bad weld...it is unknown.... they may allow some porosity, and even a "burnt cheese look"..

Without that data the welds can look bad but they may be acceptable to FCA.

All of us can find many pretty pictures of welds on Google..... but in the real world of the frame manufacturer using robots, some of the welds we see may be acceptable. I gotta say some of the repaired fixes don't look pretty either ....but ultimately FCA has to defend them in court eventually. There is no excuse for the weld bead missing the parts totally however...

It will be interesting how FCA handles it.

Those specs for porosity have been published both prior and after the tsb. They are on this very forum.

 

[richk225]

Blown7. You are right, as much as I like Swiss cheese I’d prefer it on my grill cheese sandwich then on any of the welds on my or anyone else’s Jeep.
I should be interesting, like I mentioned Toyota replaced the entire frame on my pickup due to rust issues

 

[NCJeepn73]

True, but then again unless you have the technical data from FCA that specifies what their criteria is for a bad weld...it is unknown.... they may allow some porosity, and even a "burnt cheese look"..

Without that data the welds can look bad but they may be acceptable to FCA.

All of us can find many pretty pictures of welds on Google..... but in the real world of the frame manufacturer using robots, some of the welds we see may be acceptable. I gotta say some of the repaired fixes don't look pretty either ....but ultimately FCA has to defend them in court eventually. There is no excuse for the weld bead missing the parts totally however...

It will be interesting how FCA handles it.

FCA follows the "no more than 6.4mm of porosity per 25mm" of weld bead and that porous holes/porosity have to be separated by at least their own diameter to be considered an acceptable weld.

Like I've noted several times I have two guys who have worked many years in the auto industry, instruct welding all over the country, are both CWIs, and one was the second in command at Ford for many years, working to improve welding practices for Ford framing. Since I had x-ray tests performed, the documents from it, and have been working directly with engineers at NHTSA (like some others here) with providing more data, I feel pretty confident in the findings and documentation provided.

And yep, you're right, the "repaired fixes" at least for mine is quite discouraging, mainly because it's really up to the particular welder that comes out to re-weld, their experience re-welding onto already painted/45% galvanized frames, and the tools, cleaning/prep work etc. It makes for all kinds of results, which is ultimately not leaning towards a solid, reliable, and safe solution for customers.

 

[richk225]

NCjeepn73, I hope that your hard work does convince NTSB to step up and do more investigating and look at what the aftermarket has done to resolve this problem. Yes it makes money for them but maybe one of them had a conscious too

 

[NCJeepn73]

@richk225 Thanks. I am just wanting to keep people safe. If some change or catalyst can prevent serious injury or worse, then it's all worth it.

btw, I made you a grilled cheese sammich!

 

[Capt-Zoom]

Wonder how many jeeps with bad welds fall outside their frame number range like mine. frame batch 039, with a 2/12/18 build date. Welds on my track bar are porous, incomplete and not in alignment.

 

[Krondor]

Their frame numbers are to suggest this is a limited issue and not wide ranging.

I'm sure I'll have Trail Jeeps weld more than just LCA skids in the future.

 

[CNY-JLUS]

Mine was built on 8/21, last day of the recall date range. Checked the frame number and it was 226, outside the 126-156 range. I'll just keep driving and check in on this occasionally. Been completely satisfied with the Jeep, the dealer, and the entire process.

 

[viper88]

Well, after two weeks I got word that my replacement JLUR (because of all the faulty welds and re-welds by FCA) should be at the dealership today. I will be going by to inspect the welds and test driving it to see if the wandering steering persists.

They said it had a dead battery and that's the reason it has been sitting in a train yard for the past two weeks unable to be transported. So, it takes them two weeks to tell me it is a dead battery? That would take all of 2 minutes or less to diagnose, even by myself with my $30 Autozone battery tester.

Again, my confidence slides even further for the Jeep dealership, their contacts regarding transport of the vehicle, or that there is any concern about getting this resolved quickly. Just more of the same.

Batteries can be compromised if drained too much. Definitely have them double check both batteries. I sincerely hope everything works out for you and the worst is behind you. Hopefully you will be enjoying your JL soon!

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