Towing with 3.0 Diesel

[driventoadventure]

i'd love to know what these guys are doing that's causing their problems.

i ran mine up to 248/249ºF Oil temp several times while zipping out to Moab and back with a full camping load last month. ambient air temps were typically close to 100ºF (so we had the AC on all the time), we were typically anywhere from 5000' to 7000'+ in elevation through the passes, and running speeds up to 70 & 80 MPH with a lift on 35s.
(note; i do have a low winch guard bar, but i do not have any lights or anything else in front of the grille.)

we were never able to make it de-rate in spite of trying; thing charged along like a champion.

Towing about 3500lbs plus normal off road gear and my family from NoCo to Moab the first week in June I had to slow to 55 or so on the long hills to keep from derating. I did derate at 270 before the highway to Golden when I was climbing out of Denver before realizing I needed to slow down. The shot from 250 to 270 was so fast that the cluster gauges only updated once from 250 to 260 before derating.

Coolant never was above 235 the entire trip, so the oil cooler is the shortcoming here.

AC usage made almost no difference.

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[WXman]

What's the problem? Modern full synthetic oils will easily handle 250 degree temps. You'll need to change it more often but the oil life monitor does track that. I saw mine lose 14% in 500 miles while towing. So just keep the oil and filter changed frequently and you're good to go.

 

[AZ-Chris]

I don't know the magic formula the engine control engineers used to program the JL/JT EcoDiesel, but the conditions encountered on steep mountain grades, under load certainly seem to trigger a derate. We are attempting to reverse-engineer this formula through this discussion. I think anyone following this discussion would be interested to know the specifics behind the EcoDiesel derate.

 

[grimmjeeper]

I suspect that EGTs play a big part in derating.

Pulling grades through Colorado I see 1,200° without being loaded down with a big trailer. If I was towing a heavy load at 75MPH up the pass I'm sure the EGTs would be a lot higher.

 

[RubiBlueJLU]

I suspect that EGTs play a big part in derating.

Pulling grades through Colorado I see 1,200° without being loaded down with a big trailer. If I was towing a heavy load at 75MPH up the pass I'm sure the EGTs would be a lot higher.

Finally, an EGT reference. Did you install an aftermarket gauge setup? If, so, which one did you go with?
I live in /drive a 42’ Class A diesel pusher and live or die by the EGT and boost gauges. Once you drive with those gauges, your perception of why a Jeep “derates” will change.
It’s hard to believe Jeep didn’t include boost and EGT gauges from the factory, but then, most wouldn’t know what they were for. (No offense intended to anyone here). I didn’t realize there significance in my Rv until the first time I got a “HOT” idiot light warning.

I’m sure a better radiator (as mentioned above) will help the situation.
Better knowledge of all things diesel to those new to them will help solve many of the mentioned issues.

Stay cool!

 

[AZ-Chris]

Where is the exhaust gas temperature measurement taken on the EcoDiesel? I assume it's the inlet temperature to the turbocharger. This indeed is a critical factor as the turbo is causing the engine oil temperatures to rise so quickly.

 

[Gorilla57]

Where is the exhaust gas temperature measurement taken on the EcoDiesel? I assume it's the inlet temperature to the turbocharger. This indeed is a critical factor as the turbo is causing the engine oil temperatures to rise so quickly.

As far as I know with current DPF setups, there are 3 EGT sensors. 1 post turbo, 1 pre-DPF and 1 post-DPF. There usually isn’t one pre-turbo, where we need it most. Pre-turbo EGT’s pretty much show us the temps that are leaving the cylinders. This is the most important temp to know, since we are trying to prevent melting of the pistons. Piston oil squirters help reduce piston temps to a point, which is why oil temps go up so fast.

 

[bige_talls]

The banks idash reads the turbo inlet temp the same as egt/1 from what I can tell.
I haven’t had a derate even on a two week road trip from Az to Banff but I did notice that the egts can climb pretty high as heat soak sets in on long grades. I am guessing that the jeep is derating when egts get too hot to protect the turbo. You get get the oil pretty hot with no derate if you keep egts in the 1100-1200 range on climbs

 

[grimmjeeper]

Finally, an EGT reference. Did you install an aftermarket gauge setup? If, so, which one did you go with?
I live in /drive a 42’ Class A diesel pusher and live or die by the EGT and boost gauges. Once you drive with those gauges, your perception of why a Jeep “derates” will change.
It’s hard to believe Jeep didn’t include boost and EGT gauges from the factory, but then, most wouldn’t know what they were for. (No offense intended to anyone here). I didn’t realize there significance in my Rv until the first time I got a “HOT” idiot light warning.

I’m sure a better radiator (as mentioned above) will help the situation.
Better knowledge of all things diesel to those new to them will help solve many of the mentioned issues.

Stay cool!

I have a Banks iDash. I monitor boost and all 3 EGT temps. EGT1 is post turbo. EGT2 is pre-DPF, and EGT3 is post-DPF.

EGT1 is the big one. It's usually the hottest. When under load that's the one that probably triggers a derate.

EGT3 is interesting to watch while in a passive regen cycle. It will top 1,000 as it burns off soot.

 

[grimmjeeper]

Where is the exhaust gas temperature measurement taken on the EcoDiesel? I assume it's the inlet temperature to the turbocharger. This indeed is a critical factor as the turbo is causing the engine oil temperatures to rise so quickly.

EGR1 is the inlet to the turbo. EGT1 is post-turbo. EGT2 is pre-DPF. EGT3 is post-DPF.

 

[Gorilla57]

EGR1 is the inlet to the turbo. EGT1 is post-turbo. EGT2 is pre-DPF. EGT3 is post-DPF.

So, is the EGR1 an actual EGT sensor? That would be a great one to watch if it was.

 

[bige_talls]

I don’t think that diagram is correct for this jeep. The idash reads turbine inlet and outlet temps. These readings match egt/1 and egt/2. I never see egr temps over 300.
Just set up this page on it to show. This is the jeep at idle with ac on

 

[zouch]

interesting data.

thanks for sharing the detail!

Towing about 3500lbs plus normal off road gear and my family from NoCo to Moab the first week in June I had to slow to 55 or so on the long hills to keep from derating. I did derate at 270 before the highway to Golden when I was climbing out of Denver before realizing I needed to slow down. The shot from 250 to 270 was so fast that the cluster gauges only updated once from 250 to 260 before derating.

Coolant never was above 235 the entire trip, so the oil cooler is the shortcoming here.

AC usage made almost no difference.

 

[zouch]

the turbo on these is water cooled, right?
and the pistons are cooled by an oil spray underneath, right?

i have to wonder how much would it help to have the turbo be running with cooler coolant and oil?

Where is the exhaust gas temperature measurement taken on the EcoDiesel? I assume it's the inlet temperature to the turbocharger. This indeed is a critical factor as the turbo is causing the engine oil temperatures to rise so quickly.

 

[zouch]

sorry for the off-topic question, but where is that iGuage mounted?
is that at the top of the drivers-side grab handle? what mount was used?

Just set up this page on it to show. This is the jeep at idle with ac on

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