Towing with 3.0 Diesel

[Saddle Tramp]

So a 600lb aluminum trailer with a 1500 lb Honda Talon should be an easy tow even up a grade.
That would be the most I plan on towing other than using the trailer for picking up project lumber and supplies.

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[00 Trans Ram]

Australia and most European countries limit towing to 55 or 60mph. That's why they "can" tow more weight. The US allows speed limit towing (except Cali), so that plays into towing limits.

That's pretty fine by me. There really aren't any 70mph interstates between me and anywhere I fish. Just a 60mph interstate and lots of 55mph highways.

 

[00 Trans Ram]

Could be wrong…. The max tow rating outside North America is 5500lbs for the JL. Seen this for Europe and Australia. Also, the largest tire option is only a 31” on the Rubicon
Do not think the 3.0 ED is offered outside NA
Thinking the suspension system is much stiffer outside NA. Definitely not as tall?

You are actually 100% right. Just looked it up. Tow capacity (with a braked trailer) is 5500lbs (2495kg).

 

[AZ-Chris]

TFL Truck just made a video on towing with the Ford Bronco up to Eisenenhower tunnel outside Denver, CO ("the Ike Gauntlet" challenge). This is a must watch video for anyone that intends to tow in western US or Canada.

 

[MIAZ]

AZ-Chris sure led us in a new direction with that reference to the TFL video of the new Ford Bronco towing in the mountains. Getting to the end of the video they’re showing an engine oil temperature of 244 and they also said in other similar tests Ram trucks and a TRX approached 260 degrees, and those are all gasoline engines. I don’t know what the other brands of trucks are doing in similar circumstances towing, but I’m suspecting newer high performance engines with modern emission systems run hotter than what may have been normal for us years ago. It’d be interesting to see other temperatures from other vehicles.

I think I’m going change my normal expectations of temperatures to reflect newer realities. That doesn’t mean I won’t watch the gauges. Our Ruby diesel towed our 32-3300 pound travel trailer over Wolf Creek Pass at 10857 feet on a cool day in May and US-87 up to Payson, AZ on a hot day, low 90’s, without problems. As I’ve said before, if you’re getting real hot, turn the heater on full blast and roll your windows down for your steepest, hottest sections. Somewhere I read that may be capable of dissipating 15% of the engine heat. That doesn’t mean running around in Phoenix with the windows down at 115 degrees, but towing in the mountains.

 

[00 Trans Ram]

AZ-Chris sure led us in a new direction with that reference to the TFL video of the new Ford Bronco towing in the mountains. Getting to the end of the video they’re showing an engine oil temperature of 244 and they also said in other similar tests Ram trucks and a TRX approached 260 degrees, and those are all gasoline engines. I don’t know what the other brands of trucks are doing in similar circumstances towing, but I’m suspecting newer high performance engines with modern emission systems run hotter than what may have been normal for us years ago. It’d be interesting to see other temperatures from other vehicles.

I think I’m going change my normal expectations of temperatures to reflect newer realities. That doesn’t mean I won’t watch the gauges. Our Ruby diesel towed our 32-3300 pound travel trailer over Wolf Creek Pass at 10857 feet on a cool day in May and US-87 up to Payson, AZ on a hot day, low 90’s, without problems. As I’ve said before, if you’re getting real hot, turn the heater on full blast and roll your windows down for your steepest, hottest sections. Somewhere I read that may be capable of dissipating 15% of the engine heat. That doesn’t mean running around in Phoenix with the windows down at 115 degrees, but towing in the mountains.

The heater will 100% reduce engine fluid (coolant and oil) temps dramatically. It's a short term solution, though. Perhaps 10-15 minutes. Won't help trans temps, though.

Another solution for coolant temps (and oil temps, since the engine runs cooler) is something like Water Wetter or Purple Ice. I used to road race a 2000 Trans Am. I began racing with a fairly stock motor in plan track days. One day, I began overheating and blew my radiator cap off, blowing most of my coolant (stock coolant/anti-freeze in an LS1 motor) all over the track.

Limped back to the pits and refilled with plain tap water. Friend of mine had some Redline Water Wetter and we put it in. Went back out for more laps. My car ran LITERALLY 30*F cooler. Same day, same conditions, same motor.

Ever since, I've run Water Wetter (with distilled water) in all of my high-performance cars. It contains enough lubricants (for things like water pump) that you don't need any additional coolant/anti-freeze. I'm in southeastern Louisiana, so we don't worry about freezing temps.

(Yes, when I'm about to sell the car, I drain and refill with anti-freeze. Just in case the thing get sold to someone up north that gets freezing temps.)

 

[GtX]

The heater will 100% reduce engine fluid (coolant and oil) temps dramatically. It's a short term solution, though. Perhaps 10-15 minutes. Won't help trans temps, though.

Another solution for coolant temps (and oil temps, since the engine runs cooler) is something like Water Wetter or Purple Ice. I used to road race a 2000 Trans Am. I began racing with a fairly stock motor in plan track days. One day, I began overheating and blew my radiator cap off, blowing most of my coolant (stock coolant/anti-freeze in an LS1 motor) all over the track.

Limped back to the pits and refilled with plain tap water. Friend of mine had some Redline Water Wetter and we put it in. Went back out for more laps. My car ran LITERALLY 30*F cooler. Same day, same conditions, same motor.

Ever since, I've run Water Wetter (with distilled water) in all of my high-performance cars. It contains enough lubricants (for things like water pump) that you don't need any additional coolant/anti-freeze. I'm in southeastern Louisiana, so we don't worry about freezing temps.

(Yes, when I'm about to sell the car, I drain and refill with anti-freeze. Just in case the thing get sold to someone up north that gets freezing temps.)

The heat capacity of water is greater than ethylene or propylene glycol so it can move more heat from the motor to the radiator than a typical 50:50 blend of glycol:water can.

 

[00 Trans Ram]

The heat capacity of water is greater than ethylene or propylene glycol so it can move more heat from the motor to the radiator than a typical 50:50 blend of glycol:water can.

Yeah - supposedly, just replacing coolant with water gains like 10-15* difference. Haven't tested it, though.

Oh, I touched on it earlier. But let me expand. When I started doing this in my racecar, no one said a a word. However, I carried it over into my daily-driven (~100 miles/day) Pontiac G8GT. A few people were concerned about internal components wearing faster due to just having water and Water Wetter in there, instead of coolant. Something about lubricating qualities of coolant.

At 137k miles, I pulled the heads to replace cam/lifters/rockers/etc. While I was there with everything off the motor, I looked at the water pump. It was well within specs for tolerances of the lobes.

Sold the car at 180k miles. And, trust me, they were not easy miles. I did at least 5 track days. And, my eventual lifetime MPG was 11.2 (and that includes cruising at 80mph for a lot of it.)

 

[AZ-Chris]

I spoke with Bullet Proof Diesel this afternoon and learned that they are acquiring a Gladiator EcoDiesel to serve as a test bed. They already make components for the Gen 3 EcoDiesel, but they are for the Ram Truck version but they are interested in expanding into the Jeep applications as well. They selected the Gladiator as they thought it represented a worse case scenario due to towing demands. Per the discussion, the towing package option includes "a heavy duty engine cooling system" and they wanted to know if I had that option as well.

While I do have the Wrangler towing package, I'm unaware as to whether we have a "heavy duty engine cooling" feature . . . I tend to doubt it.

As a side note, this past Saturday I went wheeling with my local club on Mount Ord, just south of Payson, AZ. To get there, I took route AZ 87 (the Bee Line Highway) which has several 7% grades coupled with 65 mph speed limits. Before cresting each grade while maintaining the speed limit, I saw oil temperatures of 251 F (multiple times) while ambient temperatures were a "cool" 95 degrees. My engine did not de-rate, but these temperatures make me nervous, especially because I'm NOT towing yet.

 

[Cypher]

I spoke with Bullet Proof Diesel this afternoon and learned that they are acquiring a Gladiator EcoDiesel to serve as a test bed. They already make components for the Gen 3 EcoDiesel, but they are for the Ram Truck version but they are interested in expanding into the Jeep applications as well. They selected the Gladiator as they thought it represented a worse case scenario due to towing demands. Per the discussion, the towing package option includes "a heavy duty engine cooling system" and they wanted to know if I had that option as well.

While I do have the Wrangler towing package, I'm unaware as to whether we have a "heavy duty engine cooling" feature . . . I tend to doubt it.

As a side note, this past Saturday I went wheeling with my local club on Mount Ord, just south of Payson, AZ. To get there, I took route AZ 87 (the Bee Line Highway) which has several 7% grades coupled with 65 mph speed limits. Before cresting each grade while maintaining the speed limit, I saw oil temperatures of 251 F (multiple times) while ambient temperatures were a "cool" 95 degrees. My engine did not de-rate, but these temperatures make me nervous, especially because I'm NOT towing yet.

I was watching oil temps in bulldog canyon this weekend in my new eco-diesel and I was surprised at how quickly they rose. it will take some getting used to and may have to alter how I drive to allow, it to cool down. it did seem to come down decently, but i was never in 4 low. I am wondering how it will do when in 4-low going slow for long periods of strain.

 

[Paulguy100]

I read somewhere it's considered a convertible so it's limited to 3500 pounds. My diesel tows much better than our Honda Pilot which is rated for 5000.

 

[AZ-Chris]

When wheeling, I frequently watch the offroad gauge page. I NEVER see oil temperatures higher than 230 F and often as low as 210 F . . . even in the desert (Sycamore Creek when ambient temps were above 105 F) ascending and descending steep grades. Basically, I don't see a problem when wheeling . . . I have only seen high temperatures when climbing 7% grades at highway speeds. I know that I am right at the GVWR for the Diesel . . . this is a big contributing factor.

The oil temperatures do rise quickly though on the highway passes . . . I'm guessing I've seen oil temperatures rise as much as 15-20 degrees from the bottom of the pass to the top (approximately 5 to 10 minutes time).

 

[Cypher]

When wheeling, I frequently watch the offroad gauge page. I NEVER see oil temperatures higher than 230 F and often as low as 210 F . . . even in the desert (Sycamore Creek when ambient temps were above 105 F) ascending and descending steep grades. Basically, I don't see a problem when wheeling . . . I have only seen high temperatures when climbing 7% grades at highway speeds. I know that I am right at the GVWR for the Diesel . . . this is a big contributing factor.

The oil temperatures do rise quickly though on the highway passes . . . I'm guessing I've seen oil temperatures rise as much as 15-20 degrees from the bottom of the pass to the top (approximately 5 to 10 minutes time).

I was over 230 in bulldg canyon Sunday while drivng slower. not a hard trail by any means, or huge elevation. I was in 4 high, so maybe that was part of it, as of now, I am still 100% stock with about 130 miles on it as of now. everything else looked good, oil temps were just a little higher than I was expecting. ill check it again next weekend when I go back out. not doing too much until i get diff skids and at least my tires on.

 

[AZ-Chris]

I'll be doing the Turkey Creek trail on Saturday (north of Lake Pleasant, near Cleater, AZ). Ambient temps should be close to 100, so it should provide an engine cooling challenge . . . I'll monitor and report back.

 

[AZ-Chris]

I just saw a post linking to a thread in the JT Gladiator forum that is much more extensive than anything found in the JL forum . . . EcoDiesel derating due to oil temperatures, ambient temperatures, towing, steep grades and altitude. I just spent this evening reading all 17 pages of this thread. Mostly a good read . . .

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/ecodiesel-power-derating-as-temps-rise.45447/

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