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Took the 4xe on its first road trip and the gas milage was a shock

Yawnie'sPapa

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I mean technically your own tax dollars pay for your tax credit, if you dont pay enough in taxes you dont qualify for the credit. That was buying last year tho. This year idk how they verify you qualify since you can apply the credit upfront.
No, only with a lease. Buying, you still have to have a total tax bill more than the credit.
My tax guy said we've be short since we never owe close to 7500 and he asked if there was a way I could get more money and owe more taxes so I could get the full 7500.

The government takes your tax dollars and subsidizes the production of ethanol, which is then forcibly blended into every gallon of gasoline every car in America burns.
No it doesn't. Ethanol-free gas is sold all over the place, from Iowa to Florida anyway.
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Yawnie'sPapa

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But most likely a coal-fired generator is still undoubtedly feeding you the energy to resupply your battery regardless. So no real carbon footprint advantage either way. Also by their very nature, batteries are pretty inefficient at converting electrical into chemical energy and then back again. The charging cycles are long, and discharge rates are short for a reason.
You are behind a bit. Ford has technology that can charge an EV in 30 minutes if they can afford to take it mainstream.
Over 50% of my electricity comes from renewable here in Iowa. Wind mostly, but solar as well.
I've got to find my current costs, but 2 years ago, it was 6 cents/KwH ($.06/KwH)
Yeah, 81 mph is going to suck down gas. The fact that it is a 4xe is irrelevant at highway speeds once the battery is drained. it only helps on short trips or longer trips where you're doing a lot of gentle accelerating and braking, like stop and go traffic or city driving.

You'd see a huge increase in MPG if you keep it in the low 60s on the highway, assuming you aren't in a hurry. A big unaerodynamic box with big tires just isn't ideal for if you're in a rush.
Sweet spot for ours was about 60 which makes total sense thinking back to the 1970s when I was first driving.
Keeping the 4xe in max regen really is a huge help in Nashville and Atlanta traffic where it's crawl, stop, crawl, stop, crawl, etc. I saw the mpg jump up big when there were massive traffic stops and slow-downs.
Wind was our worse foe and it was windy the entire 22 hours we drove back home from FL. We faced a NW wind the whole way back until we got back into Iowa and guess which direction IA is from FL..........
For my wife, the 4xe is great. She sees upper 20s in real mpg (not counting electric costs) in her typical driving. Her GC got 24-25 - at times 26 if she drove the roads close to home with 45 mph limits.
The JLU 4xe is a HEAVY brick. That 4xe stuff adds hundreds of pounds to the weight of the vehicle. It takes power to move weight/mass a given distance. More mass, more power is needed - more Kw and/or more gas.
 

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Side note: I cannot stand drivers that do not respect the drive right, pass left custom - I would bet that is probably a significant contributor to highway accidents, by forcing unsafe passing on the right and fueling road rage.
Fortunately it's significantly more than a custom in many states. Unfortunately it's rare for someone get ticketed for it.
 

Ratbert

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Oh are you one of those that can't handle be passed on the right as well?
Don't try that in GA or any of the states where that's illegal.

I've personally witnessed a GA state trooper sit in the left lane at the speed limit. When someone had the gall to incredibly slowly creep past him on the right he immediate turned his lights on and pulled the guy over.
 

VKSheridan

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I don’t mind getting passed on the right if I’m too stupid to move to the right.

I don’t mind passing people on the right if they’re emotionally attached to the lanes on the left.

Sometimes there’s a reason “Slow Joe” is in the lane folks think is exclusively theirs. (Left exit, he can see what you can’t, merge pending, etc….)

That said though, try passing me on either side using the emergency lane and odds are extremely favorable I’ll squeeze your impatient ass to the ditch.

It only took one time of me on the receiving end of shoulder debris hitting me at 70 m.p.h. to educate me not to let that happen again.
 

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jeepoch

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Don't try that in GA or any of the states where that's illegal.

I've personally witnessed a GA state trooper sit in the left lane at the speed limit. When someone had the gall to incredibly slowly creep past him on the right he immediate turned his lights on and pulled the guy over.
John
To tell you the truth and in all honesty, I admire that Trooper. Really. He's doing his job by trying to reduce speeding traffic. Most other patrollers would hide with their radar gun and collect revenue by handing out citations.

This GA State Trooper was spending fuel while actually reducing speeds and accomplishing the goal. Sure he was likely going somewhere else and was probably itching to pull someone over but I wish more traffic cops should do this than sitting there just waiting for the inevitable 15mph or more over revenue stream.

Here in CO just north of Denver, I-25 traffic is consistently well over the posted 75mph limit. So much so it's a joke. Sure, there are State Troopers constantly writing tickets, likely hundreds a day. But the bumper-to-bumper left lane buzz at 90 (or higher) just never seems to end.

Our society has somehow produced the idea that you always must get in front of the car in front of you. Even though there's ten thousand cars in front of that one. Patience and politeness must now be unfortunately lost.

I recall the days of mandated 55mph limits everywhere. That was painful. Truly difficult. I fear that without more of the GA State Trooper scenarios, our nanny gov't will start treating highway deaths like COVID and do something draconian, like lowering the speed limits.

Just like not being able to reduce drug demand, reducing drivers speeds will likely be as impossible. Worse, how many speeders are also on their phones (even texting) while flying along in the fast lane while tailgating? And we all wonder why insurance rates continue to rise. How much of a factor is this on the overall inflation pressure?

So thank you Mr. GA State Trooper. And if I got your pronoun wrong, so be it. One dilemma at a time.

Jay
 

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Don't try that in GA
Shouldn't be an issue in GA thanks to their slowpoke law. You can't camp in the left lane. If you're in the left lane, regardless of your speed or the speed limit, and another vehicle approaches from behind you are obligated to move over. In regards to @ras815, once again I suspect their driving at 55 - 65 regardless of speed limit or traffic around them could land them with an impeding ticket OCGA 40-60-184. If someone is getting passed on the right enough that it's a concern for them, either they struggle with driving in metro areas (I'm pretty sure all roads that have 3+ lanes of traffic in a single direction allow passing on the right) or they are frequently violating left lane laws similar to GA's slowpoke law.
 

BeachNJeep

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@BXFXJeep,

Again, I was being a little facetious in my post but nonetheless I'm adamantly not a fan of all this EV hype. Certainly, diverse energy sources have advantages but is it worth it for everybody, especially now today?

For you specifically and for people with short commutes in general, plugging your hybrid into a wall charger for many hours makes it possible to use less petroleum (from the perspective of your vehicle's tank). But most likely a coal-fired generator is still undoubtedly feeding you the energy to resupply your battery regardless. So no real carbon footprint advantage either way. Also by their very nature, batteries are pretty inefficient at converting electrical into chemical energy and then back again. The charging cycles are long, and discharge rates are short for a reason.

Comparing the delivered energy from the capacity of your 4xe's battery, yields the equivalent of about a gallon of petrol. Yes, only a gallon give or take a pint or so (for you Canucks, ~3.5 to 4 liters).

It would take approximately a few tens of seconds to resupply your vehicle's tank with the same energy to drive the roughly 20 or so miles that a full (many hours of charge) battery can deliver. Let that sink in.

'Time' is never taken into account for the overall cost of operation for EV vehicles. Every single minute on a charger is a minute of lost potential use, at least compared to what could have been realized with a fossil-fuel source. Granted, for you (and others with small commutes), there must be an ample amount of idle 'time' to invest in this longer energy resupply.

For others, (and I'll venture to say the vast majority) who either can't devote the appropriate 'time' investment, or just won't, simply based on the fact that most of us are a rather impatient lot (its human nature) and like the idea of being mobile and able to go anywhere on a whim. Even potentially far off destinations, (at least further than a few gallons of gas worth) at any time we desire. Without the necessity for prolonged, preplanned wait cycles for charging replenishment. For us, the five minutes it currently takes to resupply the energy to drive the next 400 or 500 miles or so is still way too inconvenient. Stopping for hours (and hours) along the way to recharge for that same destination is a non-solution. A total non-starter. Unless we live our lives within a small confined radius, battery powered jalopies are not very friendly. And likely may never be.

Our next energy source should deliver better economic and range performance, not worse. And recall 'time' is indeed money. The overall economic impact cannot simply be based on kilowatts used or price per unit volume consumed. Time is indeed a very large (but conveniently ignored) factor.

Perhaps some day (hopefully soon) the capability of exchanging a thousand pound (500 kg) battery, within the equivalent time to refuel your petrol tank, may become a game changer. But until then, 'time' itself is a precious (and for the EV enthusiast) a way undervalued commodity.

So, go ahead and take advantage of what batteries can provide. For you specifically, you have the luxury of having 'time' to play this game. For others that don't, they'll need an alternative energy source much better than the thing being eliminated. Petroleum has set the minimum standard. Batteries, no matter their application, may always fall well short of this mark. They certainly do now within today's current technology.

Still, the advantage of hybrids over pure EV is obvious; they still have an ICE power plant that can replenish the battery on-the-fly. However, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. That's indeed another reason for the 4xe's lower mileage. So not only are you hauling around a heavy battery, you're also inefficiently charging it along the way.

But to each their own. As long as you're willing to invest in their downsides, batteries can provide some sense of nirvana. But nowhere near the panacea of all their hype.

BTW, batteries also do not like cold temperatures. How's the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) factor in to the battery degradation equation? Another topic for another thread perhaps.

Happy motoring...
Jay
You obviously don't understand the purpose of the 4xe or any other PHEV. You say that the battery yields the equivalent of one gallon of petrol, but you don't realize that utilizing the battery over many miles exceeds the efficiency of that gallon many times over.

When the Jeep, or any car for that matter, just sits, like when you are at work, it's not refueling. However, a PHEV or BEV can recharge its batteries with even something as simple as a standard wall outlet. I work at a hospital and have access to both a level 1 and level 2 charger. I often work 10 hour days and my commute each way is roughly 12 miles. So for me, I don't use petrol for my daily commute. For weeks, that "gallon of petrol" has produced much more than 21 miles of efficiency.

As a long distance cruiser, yes, there probably are better options. Does the power to charge come from coal or fossil fueled plants? Most likely. But again, there are renewable options, like at my work, where solar panels power the charging stations.

Is the tech where it needs to be to yield a net zero carbon footprint and allow drivers the convenience and spontaneity to drive ad lib? No, not even close. But, we should not turn a blind eye to emerging technologies and the long term impact to improving our quality of life.

Attached is the lifetime efficiency of my 4xe. I've owned it for approximately two months and have used about one tank of petrol. It should be noted, though, that in the 4xe, the tank is only about 17 gallons compared to 21.5 for a standard JL so for those of us who "play the game," we enjoy playing it every time we drive.

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jeepoch

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@BeachNJeep,

Anthony,

The range on full electric mode is about 20 something miles depending on battery capacity. In order to drive that same distance with the ICE is about a gallon of petrol.

Therefore, a one trip equivalence yields: 4xe battery ~ one gallon of gas.

You can charge/recharge the 4xe battery until your blue, one charge equates to just twenty miles.

My daily commute is way beyond that. For me, the 4xe would not be that helpful. In fact I'd be spending most of my commute either hauling a depleted battery around (as dead weight) or robbing mileage just recharging it.

In a non-pure electric hybrid mode where the electric motor is assisting in powertrain torque rather than just on takeoffs, then I'd expect a vastly higher mileage result. Nope, just not sufficient for the added vehicle cost, not to mention the additional stress on the electrical grid to justify it's use.

I'm glad you find the battery helpful. It would be nothing but a waste of effort for me.

Jay
 

Ratbert

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Shouldn't be an issue in GA thanks to their slowpoke law. You can't camp in the left lane. If you're in the left lane, regardless of your speed or the speed limit, and another vehicle approaches from behind you are obligated to move over. In regards to @ras815, once again I suspect their driving at 55 - 65 regardless of speed limit or traffic around them could land them with an impeding ticket OCGA 40-60-184. If someone is getting passed on the right enough that it's a concern for them, either they struggle with driving in metro areas (I'm pretty sure all roads that have 3+ lanes of traffic in a single direction allow passing on the right) or they are frequently violating left lane laws similar to GA's slowpoke law.
This cop was absolutely camping in the left lane. Precisely at the speed limit on an interstate with two lanes in each direction. Loads of traffic behind him.
 

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Jumper

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You are behind a bit. Ford has technology that can charge an EV in 30 minutes if they can afford to take it mainstream.
Over 50% of my electricity comes from renewable here in Iowa. Wind mostly, but solar as well.
I've got to find my current costs, but 2 years ago, it was 6 cents/KwH ($.06/KwH)

Sweet spot for ours was about 60 which makes total sense thinking back to the 1970s when I was first driving.
Keeping the 4xe in max regen really is a huge help in Nashville and Atlanta traffic where it's crawl, stop, crawl, stop, crawl, etc. I saw the mpg jump up big when there were massive traffic stops and slow-downs.
Wind was our worse foe and it was windy the entire 22 hours we drove back home from FL. We faced a NW wind the whole way back until we got back into Iowa and guess which direction IA is from FL..........
For my wife, the 4xe is great. She sees upper 20s in real mpg (not counting electric costs) in her typical driving. Her GC got 24-25 - at times 26 if she drove the roads close to home with 45 mph limits.
The JLU 4xe is a HEAVY brick. That 4xe stuff adds hundreds of pounds to the weight of the vehicle. It takes power to move weight/mass a given distance. More mass, more power is needed - more Kw and/or more gas.
I’ve got a 2021 Wrangler JLU 8 spd Auto w/ 3.6 L engine. Look at this mileage!
Jeep Wrangler JL Took the 4xe on its first road trip and the gas milage was a shock E600EC46-2BD7-413A-BC4E-3200DD6A04D1
Jeep Wrangler JL Took the 4xe on its first road trip and the gas milage was a shock E600EC46-2BD7-413A-BC4E-3200DD6A04D1
 

Jumper

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John
To tell you the truth and in all honesty, I admire that Trooper. Really. He's doing his job by trying to reduce speeding traffic. Most other patrollers would hide with their radar gun and collect revenue by handing out citations.

This GA State Trooper was spending fuel while actually reducing speeds and accomplishing the goal. Sure he was likely going somewhere else and was probably itching to pull someone over but I wish more traffic cops should do this than sitting there just waiting for the inevitable 15mph or more over revenue stream.

Here in CO just north of Denver, I-25 traffic is consistently well over the posted 75mph limit. So much so it's a joke. Sure, there are State Troopers constantly writing tickets, likely hundreds a day. But the bumper-to-bumper left lane buzz at 90 (or higher) just never seems to end.

Our society has somehow produced the idea that you always must get in front of the car in front of you. Even though there's ten thousand cars in front of that one. Patience and politeness must now be unfortunately lost.

I recall the days of mandated 55mph limits everywhere. That was painful. Truly difficult. I fear that without more of the GA State Trooper scenarios, our nanny gov't will start treating highway deaths like COVID and do something draconian, like lowering the speed limits.

Just like not being able to reduce drug demand, reducing drivers speeds will likely be as impossible. Worse, how many speeders are also on their phones (even texting) while flying along in the fast lane while tailgating? And we all wonder why insurance rates continue to rise. How much of a factor is this on the overall inflation pressure?

So thank you Mr. GA State Trooper. And if I got your pronoun wrong, so be it. One dilemma at a time.

Jay
If you want to see crazy speeding drivers, try running I-95 through central Virginia! Especially the idiots from MD! The speed limit is usually 65 and goes up to 70 in some areas, THESE clowns push 85, 90 and 95 at times. And that’s in BAD WEATHER! Any lane is open to those fools. I avoid 95 like the plague.
 

BeachNJeep

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I’ve got a 2021 Wrangler JLU 8 spd Auto w/ 3.6 L engine. Look at this mileage!
Jeep Wrangler JL Took the 4xe on its first road trip and the gas milage was a shock E600EC46-2BD7-413A-BC4E-3200DD6A04D1
Jeep Wrangler JL Took the 4xe on its first road trip and the gas milage was a shock E600EC46-2BD7-413A-BC4E-3200DD6A04D1
How many miles is that average for? In almost 1400 miles of driving, I averaged 30 MPG.

Look at my driving history from my app. My extraordinary numbers take into account that I drive more than double the EV miles than I do ICE.

I use the PHEV the way it was intended: short daily commutes with end to end charging.
Jeep Wrangler JL Took the 4xe on its first road trip and the gas milage was a shock Screenshot_20230412_094238_Uconnect
 

Jumper

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All well and good! How long do you sit idle at a charging station? Then if it’s taken, how long of a wait do you have to actually USE IT? To me, time is money! If you have a home based charger, is it REALLY UP TO CODE? Some cities have specific building and electrical codes that you need to comply with BEFORE having one installed. Keep me posted on this subject, please!
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