Took the 4xe on its first road trip and the gas milage was a shock

[Ratbert]

I'll consider doing another long trip but with closer-to-stock sizes but I did not recall getting anywhere near 24mph on stock (I drive ~70 on the highways). A 392 take off is slightly wider than a Rubicon so we'll see what difference it makes. My tires extend past the fender quite a bit but I do not think 1" outside is going to make that big of a difference

Hopefully you adjusted the computer when you put on larger diameter tires.

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[jeepoch]

@BXFXJeep,

Again, I was being a little facetious in my post but nonetheless I'm adamantly not a fan of all this EV hype. Certainly, diverse energy sources have advantages but is it worth it for everybody, especially now today?

For you specifically and for people with short commutes in general, plugging your hybrid into a wall charger for many hours makes it possible to use less petroleum (from the perspective of your vehicle's tank). But most likely a coal-fired generator is still undoubtedly feeding you the energy to resupply your battery regardless. So no real carbon footprint advantage either way. Also by their very nature, batteries are pretty inefficient at converting electrical into chemical energy and then back again. The charging cycles are long, and discharge rates are short for a reason.

Comparing the delivered energy from the capacity of your 4xe's battery, yields the equivalent of about a gallon of petrol. Yes, only a gallon give or take a pint or so (for you Canucks, ~3.5 to 4 liters).

It would take approximately a few tens of seconds to resupply your vehicle's tank with the same energy to drive the roughly 20 or so miles that a full (many hours of charge) battery can deliver. Let that sink in.

'Time' is never taken into account for the overall cost of operation for EV vehicles. Every single minute on a charger is a minute of lost potential use, at least compared to what could have been realized with a fossil-fuel source. Granted, for you (and others with small commutes), there must be an ample amount of idle 'time' to invest in this longer energy resupply.

For others, (and I'll venture to say the vast majority) who either can't devote the appropriate 'time' investment, or just won't, simply based on the fact that most of us are a rather impatient lot (its human nature) and like the idea of being mobile and able to go anywhere on a whim. Even potentially far off destinations, (at least further than a few gallons of gas worth) at any time we desire. Without the necessity for prolonged, preplanned wait cycles for charging replenishment. For us, the five minutes it currently takes to resupply the energy to drive the next 400 or 500 miles or so is still way too inconvenient. Stopping for hours (and hours) along the way to recharge for that same destination is a non-solution. A total non-starter. Unless we live our lives within a small confined radius, battery powered jalopies are not very friendly. And likely may never be.

Our next energy source should deliver better economic and range performance, not worse. And recall 'time' is indeed money. The overall economic impact cannot simply be based on kilowatts used or price per unit volume consumed. Time is indeed a very large (but conveniently ignored) factor.

Perhaps some day (hopefully soon) the capability of exchanging a thousand pound (500 kg) battery, within the equivalent time to refuel your petrol tank, may become a game changer. But until then, 'time' itself is a precious (and for the EV enthusiast) a way undervalued commodity.

So, go ahead and take advantage of what batteries can provide. For you specifically, you have the luxury of having 'time' to play this game. For others that don't, they'll need an alternative energy source much better than the thing being eliminated. Petroleum has set the minimum standard. Batteries, no matter their application, may always fall well short of this mark. They certainly do now within today's current technology.

Still, the advantage of hybrids over pure EV is obvious; they still have an ICE power plant that can replenish the battery on-the-fly. However, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. That's indeed another reason for the 4xe's lower mileage. So not only are you hauling around a heavy battery, you're also inefficiently charging it along the way.

But to each their own. As long as you're willing to invest in their downsides, batteries can provide some sense of nirvana. But nowhere near the panacea of all their hype.

BTW, batteries also do not like cold temperatures. How's the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) factor in to the battery degradation equation? Another topic for another thread perhaps.

Happy motoring...
Jay

 

[PatriotX]

Of course, moving the goalposts is a great way to agree with yourself.

While you’re busy gladhanding the decision to deny progress, I’ll be enjoying more performance at reduced overall consumption.

I also don’t remember hearing about a refinery or gas station in your backyard, so please acknowledge the superior convenience of home refueling.

/facetious

 

[BXFXJeep]

@BXFXJeep,

Again, I was being a little facetious in my post but nonetheless I'm adamantly not a fan of all this EV hype. Certainly, diverse energy sources have advantages but is it worth it for everybody, especially now today?

For you specifically and for people with short commutes in general, plugging your hybrid into a wall charger for many hours makes it possible to use less petroleum (from the perspective of your vehicle's tank). But most likely a coal-fired generator is still undoubtedly feeding you the energy to resupply your battery regardless. So no real carbon footprint advantage either way. Also by their very nature, batteries are pretty inefficient at converting electrical into chemical energy and then back again. The charging cycles are long, and discharge rates are short for a reason.

Comparing the delivered energy from the capacity of your 4xe's battery, yields the equivalent of about a gallon of petrol. Yes, only a gallon give or take a pint or so (for you Canucks, ~3.5 to 4 liters).

It would take approximately a few tens of seconds to resupply your vehicle's tank with the same energy to drive the roughly 20 or so miles that a full (many hours of charge) battery can deliver. Let that sink in.

'Time' is never taken into account for the overall cost of operation for EV vehicles. Every single minute on a charger is a minute of lost potential use, at least compared to what could have been realized with a fossil-fuel source. Granted, for you (and others with small commutes), there must be an ample amount of idle 'time' to invest in this longer energy resupply.

For others, (and I'll venture to say the vast majority) who either can't devote the appropriate 'time' investment, or just won't, simply based on the fact that most of us are a rather impatient lot (its human nature) and like the idea of being mobile and able to go anywhere on a whim. Even potentially far off destinations, (at least further than a few gallons of gas worth) at any time we desire. Without the necessity for prolonged, preplanned wait cycles for charging replenishment. For us, the five minutes it currently takes to resupply the energy to drive the next 400 or 500 miles or so is still way too inconvenient. Stopping for hours (and hours) along the way to recharge for that same destination is a non-solution. A total non-starter. Unless we live our lives within a small confined radius, battery powered jalopies are not very friendly. And likely may never be.

Our next energy source should deliver better economic and range performance, not worse. And recall 'time' is indeed money. The overall economic impact cannot simply be based on kilowatts used or price per unit volume consumed. Time is indeed a very large (but conveniently ignored) factor.

Perhaps some day (hopefully soon) the capability of exchanging a thousand pound (500 kg) battery, within the equivalent time to refuel your petrol tank, may become a game changer. But until then, 'time' itself is a precious (and for the EV enthusiast) a way undervalued commodity.

So, go ahead and take advantage of what batteries can provide. For you specifically, you have the luxury of having 'time' to play this game. For others that don't, they'll need an alternative energy source much better than the thing being eliminated. Petroleum has set the minimum standard. Batteries, no matter their application, may always fall well short of this mark. They certainly do now within today's current technology.

Still, the advantage of hybrids over pure EV is obvious; they still have an ICE power plant that can replenish the battery on-the-fly. However, there is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. That's indeed another reason for the 4xe's lower mileage. So not only are you hauling around a heavy battery, you're also inefficiently charging it along the way.

But to each their own. As long as you're willing to invest in their downsides, batteries can provide some sense of nirvana. But nowhere near the panacea of all their hype.

BTW, batteries also do not like cold temperatures. How's the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) factor in to the battery degradation equation? Another topic for another thread perhaps.

Happy motoring...
Jay

Let me start by saying again, I don't care about global warming, or whatever name it's called now, I have lived through many variations on this nonsense for decades, I don't go out of my way to pollute or consume massive amounts of "carbon", like the people pushing this scheme are doing, then claim it's ok, because they are buying "offsets". Offsets is basically a cover charge that mostly only rich elites can afford, because they are also profiting from it, they and their friends are running the scheme.

It was warmer this winter, so the 4xe allowed for a little more electric only use, not much just a little, because overall the GTA winters does not negatively affect the PHEV that much, but again cold weather is all part of the PHEV equation to decide benefits.

I for one do not advocate a PHEV is for the masses, especially the 4xe, however the government with their usual wisdom decided, hey give people thousands to bribe them to buy one, so take that up with the government, I also completely disagree with government subsiding this EV scheme, especially when it comes to penalizing us at the gas pump, with cockeyed taxes, and, carbon taxes, and other policies that jack up the price of gas.

Time should never really be an issue when it comes to PHEV/EV charging, the vehicle is plugged in when it's not being used, if someone have to sacrifice time to specifically go charge, then that's nuts. You plug in the vehicle when it's not in use, the 4xe takes 2 hours to charge up, for the most part the way a PHEV is used, it should rarely be charging up from "empty".

My typical weekday use is

8:30am - 10km kids to school
<45 minutes to 100% charge

3pm - 10km pick up kids
<45 mins to 100%

6pm - 15 - 25km joy riding
< 2 hours to 100%

Weekends there is mostly joyriding but it's usually 15 - 25 km at a time and charging done accordingly that does not affect vehicle usage, sometimes we go on longer drives, but I pretty much mostly run the gas engine.

Like the gas Wranglers vs other vehicles, the 4xe is not great when it comes to electric vs other vehicles, but for some of us, we can benefit significantly from the electric use, it's up to the person buying the 4xe to figure out the benefits, it's pretty easy to do.

I benefit significantly from the 4xe, because my mostly city driving was usually less than 14mpg.

Daily driving a YJ, a TJ, a 2 dr JK, a 4 dr JK, and a JL, all 6 cylinders over 3 decades I never got better than 14mpg, unless I did pure highway.

For me a full EV would suit me best, but that means I would not be driving a Wrangler, so the 4xe Wrangler is the best Wrangler for me.

So anyone that drives the way I do, and have access to a plug and is not expensive, a 4xe/PHEV can have it's benefits.

Therefore if you are a low mileage city slicker, mall crawler driving a gas Wrangler, the 4xe might very well have a lot benefits, vs your poor mpg gasser.

There is also the added comical factor of parking the 4xe at the mall chargers with the top and windows open, while all the Teslas are parked locked up with their sentry systems activated at DEFCON 4.

 

[MallBrawler]

Hopefully you adjusted the computer when you put on larger diameter tires.

Yes, definitely adjusted. Its too big of a difference lol

 

[2018JLRUSellersremorse]

I would not exactly say it's less efficient than the V6, it pumps out a lot more power than the V6, and you feel that power.

Granted I have never been on a long trip with my 4xe, the longest trip was 50 miles to drive it home on the day I picked it up from the dealer.

I didn't pay any attention to what the electric and gas usage on that drive home was, I was just amazed at how powerful it felt vs the V6 I just left at the dealer. Don't get me wrong, I liked that V6 JL a lot, it was the best Wrangler I drove, before I jumped in the 4xe that night.

I have 17,000 miles in 15 months, about 2,000 of that is "gas", but they are all small gas trips, so I cannot say much about MPG vs my 2018 3.6 JL, but I used to get about 14mpg with my V6 JL/JKs/TJ before that, same driving mostly city driving, the long distance trips I did do with them I saw 20mpg+ sometimes 24mpg maybe with the JKs and JL, don't remember too much about the TJ on long distance, but from what I remember, it was similar to the JK/JL.

City I was always a 14mpg on a good day from TJ to JL, I think the YJ was worse.

All in all for the 4xe power I think it's worth it for me, and I get the added bonus of driving mostly , which is thousands of dollars in savings not buying gas.

Gas is about $4.50 USD a gallon in Toronto, and is expected to keep getting more expensive every year, the federal government is jacking up the carbon tax every All Fools Day for the foreseeable future.

I agree, all this talk about mileage. It's commonly forgotten that the battery is never depleted. I had a "18 JL V6 and loved it but it does not compare to the power you get with the 4Xe. I didn't buy it to be "green" or even save money on gas, even though that is a nice bonus. I get to charge at home and work so it works well for me. But at the end of the day I like having the "new" and learning along with Jeep, but mostly the power for the price both at the sticker and at the pump.

 

[2018JLRUSellersremorse]

This is my dash info from my 2021 JLU w/3.6 and 8spd AT

I can reset mine to show above 60mpg all day long in the 4Xe

 

[VKSheridan]

2023 4xe with 37s and 1200 miles on the odo. Left town with almost a full tank and 100 charge. Hit the freeway, set cruise to 81 and watched the "needle" drop like a rock.

Dude….. This is horrible.

When my Wrangler goes 80 m.p.h. or faster, the needle on my fuel gauge doesn’t move, let alone drop. Of course to hit that speed, it’s being towed by my PowerWagon which gets about 9.8 with ‘em connected….

 

[Crowbar]

My 20 JTR with 3.6 auto, 37" Nittos, heavy build, and 5.13 gears would get 18.2 mpg on 600 mile road trips at 75 mph. Speedo verified against gps.

 

[MrMischief]

Setting ACC at 65ish and cruising in the right lanes is a highly enjoyable driving experience in a Wrangler. Less noise, smoother ride, better MPG, etc.

See, I find that to feel a bit dangerous when the limit is 80. You're going considerably slower than traffic and the other drivers may not realize how fast they are closing on you. I don't know that 65 is slow enough for an impeding traffic ticket, but for me it is on the cusp. 60 mph certainly deserves an impeding ticket. What would your defense be to such a ticket? You're 15 mph below the limit in a vehicle that is equipped and engineered for highway speeds on a presumably clear day so it's not a safety concern. You're presumably not on a steep grade that is limiting your ability to maintain speed so it's not a capability concern... Seems to me that society decided the speed on these roads is 80 mph (I know that's the "limit" but the reality is most people drive +/- 10 mph of the speed limit). If someone can't, or wont, drive at those speeds they should pick a different road.

 

[ras815]

See, I find that to feel a bit dangerous when the limit is 80. You're going considerably slower than traffic and the other drivers may not realize how fast they are closing on you. I don't know that 65 is slow enough for an impeding traffic ticket, but for me it is on the cusp. 60 mph certainly deserves an impeding ticket. What would your defense be to such a ticket? You're 15 mph below the limit in a vehicle that is equipped and engineered for highway speeds on a presumably clear day so it's not a safety concern. You're presumably not on a steep grade that is limiting your ability to maintain speed so it's not a capability concern... Seems to me that society decided the speed on these roads is 80 mph (I know that's the "limit" but the reality is most people drive +/- 10 mph of the speed limit). If someone can't, or wont, drive at those speeds they should pick a different road.

To be fair, where I live on the East Coast we have very few - if any - highways with a posted speed limit of 80 mph. Most have limits of 55-70mph.

We're splitting hairs here, anyway. The concept of driving sensibly within highway traffic flow is not that complicated. I will continue to drive at the speeds I deem comfortable and safe in my Wrangler, and that's at a maximum of around 65-70mph. I have yet to an encounter a situation where that would pose a problem under normal driving conditions...anywhere, even out West.

You are more than welcome to pass me on my left. But you might not get a Jeep wave.

 

[jlcalifornia]

2023 4xe with 37s and 1200 miles on the odo. Left town with almost a full tank and 100 charge. Hit the freeway, set cruise to 81 and watched the "needle" drop like a rock. 140 miles later (with a big head wind) and we were well under 1/4 tank and averaging just over 10 mpg. 14.1 gallons later and we were back at it. Can't remember if I reset the trip at that point, but I think so. 11.2 miles to gallon later we were on red for our next stop (still at 81 mph). Filled "Earl" up again and were back at it. this time it was 70 and under to our destination miles away and on our third tank of gas. Though we were now getting 14.4 miles to the gallon. Distance total to destination was between 230 and 260.

Trip home, I left the trip computer alone and we didn't have near as much head wind and we stayed at about 14.4 miles to the gallon for the trip home. Put it on e-save charging for the drive home. 230ish miles and it charged to 60 percent.

Yeah, 81 mph is going to suck down gas. The fact that it is a 4xe is irrelevant at highway speeds once the battery is drained. it only helps on short trips or longer trips where you're doing a lot of gentle accelerating and braking, like stop and go traffic or city driving.

You'd see a huge increase in MPG if you keep it in the low 60s on the highway, assuming you aren't in a hurry. A big unaerodynamic box with big tires just isn't ideal for if you're in a rush.

 

[Ratbert]

To be fair, where I live on the East Coast we have very few - if any - highways with a posted speed limit of 80 mph. Most have limits of 55-70mph.

We're splitting hairs here, anyway. The concept of driving sensibly within highway traffic flow is not that complicated. I will continue to drive at the speeds I deem comfortable and safe in my Wrangler, and that's at a maximum of around 65-70mph. I have yet to an encounter a situation where that would pose a problem under normal driving conditions...anywhere, even out West.

You are more than welcome to pass me on my left. But you might not get a Jeep wave.

Mine drives comfortably at 97. Driving 65 or 70 in an 85 mph zone is really dangerous. I'm guessing you should avoid those roads.

 

[ras815]

Driving 65 or 70 in an 85 mph zone is really dangerous. I'm guessing you should avoid those roads.

An 85mph zone? There's only one single 40-mile stretch of highway in the entire US that has a posted limit of 85mph. No plans to drive there in my Wrangler, as it's near Austin TX, 1000+ miles away. Most East Coast states have maximum limits in the 65-70mph range, while in rural areas in the West, the range is 70-80mph. Many localities impose lower limits at night, or approaching urban areas.

Regardless, back to the point of this thread: all I've been saying is that I find driving at 55-65mph to be the sweet spot in MPG/road noise/comfort for me. It's fully legal, and being called out for suggesting that this is somehow "unsafe" is ridiculous.

Side note: I cannot stand drivers that do not respect the drive right, pass left custom - I would bet that is probably a significant contributor to highway accidents, by forcing unsafe passing on the right and fueling road rage.

 

[MrMischief]

To be fair, where I live on the East Coast we have very few - if any - highways with a posted speed limit of 80 mph. Most have limits of 55-70mph.

To be fair, OP is from ID talking about a road trip with cruise set at 80 mph, safe to assume that they were traveling within the norm of the speed limit for their area. Your original post that I took issue with was suggesting everyone with a Wrangler should not be exceeding 65 mph. In a later post you've said 55 - 65. If you're doing 55 in an 80 you deserve at least an impeding ticket, possibly reckless depending on conditions. Someone is going to come over a hill and crash trying to dodge you. Just because that speed might be the norm in your world does not mean it is the right thing to do in the entire world.

You are more than welcome to pass me on my left.

Oh are you one of those that can't handle be passed on the right as well? Yet you live in what I'd probably define as a metro area. How do you function? Believe me, if you're going up a mountain in the driving lane at 55 - 65 mph, while an RV is struggling to pass you in the passing lane, and the climbing lane is open, I'll be passing you on the right without much of a thought about it. I'm not going to stay behind you and be your crash bumper because you have an ego problem. Get over yourself.

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