To locker or not to locker?

[omnitonic]

Some of you followed my regear thread, where I spun my mental wheels for the longest time, and finally settled on 4.56 gears.

Now I'm asking myself if I should do lockers while I have everything apart. If there is any chance I would ever wish I had lockers, there is no better time than while the pumpkins are gutted anyway.

I have an OBA system, so air lockers are a pretty obvious choice.

I have a rear Dana M220 "Anti-Spin Differential" that performs really well, so I'm thinking maybe just a locker up front (Dana M186).

As I understand it, the LSD is of the clutch pack type, and it will crap out at about 30k miles. I'm not sure if it would be worse to yank it and put in a locker now, or to wait until it fails at some unpredictable future time, and put in a locker then. Or even just service it, or replace it with the Eaton thingadoodle (oh, don't you just love the exacting precision?!) that works pretty well, and lacks consumable components.

The tl;dr version is that I don't really want to spend $4,000+, but I don't want to hate myself down the line for not getting lockers while I had the chance.

Sponsored

 

[CarbonSteel]

In a similar line of thought, I did this when I re-geared because it's cheaper to do it when the axle is already apart:

-- RCV and Dana Spicer chrome moly axle shafts
-- Artec trusses and "C" gussets
-- Dynatrac ball joints
-- Rock jock upper bushings

So if you are going to do it at any point, buy once and cry once...do it now.

 

[grimmjeeper]

Given the sketchy history of the factory LSD, I would not hesitate to replace it with something else. Even if you go with an aftermarket LSD, it will save you the hassle of dealing with it when, not if, it craps out. To me, swapping out the factory LSD is just good sense preventative maintenance.

I'm not sure about the JL front axle but I know in my JK I was forced to change carriers when I went to 4.56 because I crossed the carrier break. So the decision on a front locker was easier. I was already at least 1/3 of the way there money wise so why not?

As far as what to go with, there are few bad choices. I hear mixed reviews about OX lockers but I have no direct experience with them or anyone who has them. I have personal experience with Auburn ECTED lockers and would certainly not recommend them. Though Auburn posi units are fine. I have run Eaton E-Lockers in multiple Jeeps and have been happy with them. Lots of people I know run ARB lockers and they are good as well. No direct experience with Yukon brand lockers/LSD so nothing to comment about them.

I personally would not put in a clutch type LSD because of maintenance issues. They wear out and you need to replace the clutch packs. And that's annoying. I ran Eaton TrueTracs in a Jeep. They are helical gear LSDs and are a great option. Another company is making a similar helical gear LSD and it too is getting great reviews.


Bottom line. If you think you want lockers and can afford the extra expense, now is the time to do it. Limited slip is better than open but a selectable locker gives you so much more when you want it. It's worth every penny if you take your Jeep on trails that need lockers.

 

[Trainman]

My question is on the LSD rear end in the Willys from the factory. Will the LSD last longer in a vehicle that is not off roaded very much, or will the problem not be a quick to happen in a street used vehicle. Just wondering as my new Willys Sport will be a street cruiser and off roading will be the gravel in the DQ parking lot.

 

[DadJokes]

Rear locker. I think Ox locker makes an air option for the 44. That seems the natural order for most companies to offer the oem rear locker first and seems to be the consensus here that most times the rear is enough.

Front, leave it open unless you’re rock crawling often. I’m not sold on those Aussie lockers for the front yet.

And if you have a solid recovery kit for different scenarios, probably need the front even less.

 

[omnitonic]

I decided to just reply to the thread, instead of slicing and dicing a bunch of quote text. The comments so far have been helpful.

A data point for everybody: The new JL axles no longer have a carrier break.

After digesting the suggestions in this thread, I have decided to replace the LSD guts with locker guts in the rear for sure, and I may put a locker up front as well. I'm not going to swap out my front M186 (just too expensive). I'm planning to upgrade steering and suspension components as I break them. I will go price out upgraded axle shafts, and putting them up front would the the priority, because front axle shafts are a bitch to change.

I think that's where I'm going to stay. At the end of the day, I still have a Sport transfer case, and I live thousands of miles away from all the big rock gardens.

I am really going to enjoy the new 4.56 gears at the end of all this.

 

[ThirtyOne]

Take the LSD 30,000 mile thing with a grain of salt. At one point I decided to track it down to it's root and it came from a guy who ran 37's and went off-road every weekend. I am not convinced it is generally the case. I don't have enough data to say it isn't true. I just personally wouldn't make a decision based on that assumption.

 

[FFM069]

Hi,
I have a similar setup as well and I have to say I don't understand all the hate the LSD is getting. Sure it's not perfect and it wears out but when depends on how often and hard it's being used. I talked to the folks at Eaton and they said they're bringing out a TrueTrac for the new JL's later this year, so I am waiting for that. I also only heard great things about OX lockers and if you get a cable accentuated one, they're almost bullet proof.
Anyway, just my 2 cents...

 

[904gracieJLU]

I added an OX locker when I went to 4.88 gears in my Willys. Definitely worth the money!

 

[omnitonic]

So I finally made the phone calls. I'm not very impressed so far. What they're telling me between the lines is that neither shop really wants this job. Okay, so be it. Back to the drawing board. The kind of money I'm talking about dropping, I'm expecting a whole lot more yes sir Mr. McIntyre let's get this figured out and get this on the schedule.

I guess I'm doing it myself after all. The front axle scares me the most. I have a lot of studying to do.

 

[word302]

So I finally made the phone calls. I'm not very impressed so far. What they're telling me between the lines is that neither shop really wants this job. Okay, so be it. Back to the drawing board. The kind of money I'm talking about dropping, I'm expecting a whole lot more yes sir Mr. McIntyre let's get this figured out and get this on the schedule.

I guess I'm doing it myself after all. The front axle scares me the most. I have a lot of studying to do.

Why does the front scare you? It’s almost exactly the same job.

 

[omnitonic]

Why does the front scare you? It’s almost exactly the same job.

You have to undo the unit bearing, the ball joints, the FAD stuff, and probably other things I'm not even thinking about. It's a lot of things to get right the first time, and it's all alien to me. It's intimidating.

Everything about the job is intimidating. All I have to go on are some videos. I'm the kind of guy who reads service manuals. I relate well to the written word. Videos leave things out.

I'm warming up to the idea though. My mindset that the shop guy is probably smarter and more experienced than I am has taken severe damage.

You are the guy from the other thread, whom I congratulated for doing your own gears, right? Can I ask you some questions?

For starters, I'm not sure what to buy. Over on the Spicer site, I have one each of the ring an pinion set, master overhaul kit, and rebuild kit in my cart. Do I need all three? What else will I need that isn't in these kits?

I need to buy a 20-ton arbor press. What else? I have dial indicators, dial test indicators, dial calipers, micrometers, bore gauges, feeler gauges, and two different Noga bases.

 

[word302]

You have to undo the unit bearing, the ball joints, the FAD stuff, and probably other things I'm not even thinking about. It's a lot of things to get right the first time, and it's all alien to me. It's intimidating.

Everything about the job is intimidating. All I have to go on are some videos. I'm the kind of guy who reads service manuals. I relate well to the written word. Videos leave things out.

I'm warming up to the idea though. My mindset that the shop guy is probably smarter and more experienced than I am has taken severe damage.

You are the guy from the other thread, whom I congratulated for doing your own gears, right? Can I ask you some questions?

For starters, I'm not sure what to buy. Over on the Spicer site, I have one each of the ring an pinion set, master overhaul kit, and rebuild kit in my cart. Do I need all three? What else will I need that isn't in these kits?

I need to buy a 20-ton arbor press. What else? I have dial indicators, dial test indicators, dial calipers, micrometers, bore gauges, feeler gauges, and two different Noga bases.

The outer axles come out in one piece, no reason to touch the ball joints or u-joints. The FAD is super simple. The unit bearings are no more difficult than the rear wheel bearings. The front is really no more difficult than the rear. Also check out @chevymitchell’s 4:88 thread. It’s all textual and pictures instead of videos

You’ll need a master overhaul kit for both front and rear as well as ring and pinion sets front and rear. Northridge is a great source for all the parts. You’ll need a beam-style or digital inch-pound torque wrench for measuring torque to rotate. If you think you’ll ever do another differential I’d consider a clamshell bearing puller.

The reality is unless you know a shop that specializes in differentials, it’s really a crapshoot as to whether they know much more than you about setting one up.

You got this.

 

[Sheepjeep]

So I finally made the phone calls. I'm not very impressed so far. What they're telling me between the lines is that neither shop really wants this job. Okay, so be it. Back to the drawing board. The kind of money I'm talking about dropping, I'm expecting a whole lot more yes sir Mr. McIntyre let's get this figured out and get this on the schedule.

I guess I'm doing it myself after all. The front axle scares me the most. I have a lot of studying to do.

Most general mechanics will not do gear set ups as they are easy to fuck up, that should be an indication of the level of skill you need to set up gears. But any reputable 4x4 shop will do the work all of the time, same with some transmission shops, but many shops do not like it when you bring in your own parts because they are loosing money on the sale of said parts

 

[DadJokes]

What part of the country are these “shops” that don’t seem to want to do the work? I find it odd that they don’t seem to want to but I have come across it before. Especially construction/remodeling.

Sponsored