To Catch a Catch Can

[CarbonSteel]

After 5,500 mile since the last time I dumped my catch can, I dumped it again today. A few things to report:

1. You (at least I) cannot go 5,500 miles without dumping the catch can. It currently has 100ml in it and that is just the amount needed to put the oil level even with the bottom of the diffuser outlet inside the can.
2. I think it means that when 100ml is in the can, that any additional oil will go into the the intake.
3. I am totally satisfied with my catch can and what it does. I definitely do not want that oil going into the intake.

Sponsored

 

[Rodeoflyer]

It comes out so much darker than what's even on the dipstick. The blowby makes the oil super thick and back.

 

[Gear_AU]

Installed a Catch can to try and stop the burning when on steep hills. It helps. Stopped it until it was full. This was after one trip with about maybe 6 mins spent at 35'+.

 

[Gear_AU]

After 5,500 mile since the last time I dumped my catch can, I dumped it again today. A few things to report:

1. You (at least I) cannot go 5,500 miles without dumping the catch can. It currently has 100ml in it and that is just the amount needed to put the oil level even with the bottom of the diffuser outlet inside the can.
2. I think it means that when 100ml is in the can, that any additional oil will go into the the intake.
3. I am totally satisfied with my catch can and what it does. I definitely do not want that oil going into the intake.

Is your catch can connected to both banks?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Is your catch can connected to both banks?

It is a UPR, it replaces the OEM line that comes off the passenger bank and onto the intake.

See more here:

https://uprproducts.com/18-20-jeep-wrangler-jl-3-6-billet-oil-catch-can/

 

[Gear_AU]

It is a UPR, it replaces the OEM line that comes off the passenger bank and onto the intake.

See more here:

https://uprproducts.com/18-20-jeep-wrangler-jl-3-6-billet-oil-catch-can/

Yep, I installed the same one (see above), PVC output (oil) is still going into the intake from the other bank as the UPR is inline with only the one side. Do other Catch cans cover both sides? The UPR is only really stopping half and helping on the steep slopes.

 

[DanW]

Installed a Catch can to try and stop the burning when on steep hills. It helps. Stopped it until it was full. This was after one trip with about maybe 6 mins spent at 35'+.

Did it work? Another on one of these catch can threads said it did not help. I've been at the angle you are in that picture, but never experienced that kind of smoking. I can't say for sure if it was for 6 minutes or not, though. Certainly less than 10 minutes.

 

[DanW]

Did it work?

It is a UPR, it replaces the OEM line that comes off the passenger bank and onto the intake.

See more here:

https://uprproducts.com/18-20-jeep-wrangler-jl-3-6-billet-oil-catch-can/

Carbon, did your UOA on the catch can oil come back yet?

 

[Gear_AU]

Did it work? Another on one of these catch can threads said it did not help. I've been at the angle you are in that picture, but never experienced that kind of smoking. I can't say for sure if it was for 6 minutes or not, though. Certainly less than 10 minutes.

It was working great until the can was full....

 

[CarbonSteel]

Yep, I installed the same one (see above), PVC output (oil) is still going into the intake from the other bank as the UPR is inline with only the one side. Do other Catch cans cover both sides? The UPR is only really stopping half and helping on the steep slopes.

Does the driver's side valve cover connect to the intake? I did not think it did and have not previously had an engine that did this.

You have me curious now and will have to check it.

 

[DanW]

One good thing that I gleaned from my friend the Pentastar engineer. The smoking I am guessing is due to that cam driven pump on the end of one of the cam shafts on each bank is still pumping oil at those severe angles while other engines won't, causing starvation to the valve train.

So what I'm deducing is that some engines that don't smoke at those angles may actually be starving the valve train/cam shafts of oil at that point, which would be bad.

He did say that in spite of the smoke and in even more extreme cases, the bad sound, won't cause any damage unless you are doing it all the time. Then he's not sure.

This condition is really the main reason I'm looking at a catch can. I'm starting to see that it may not be a solution. One forum member removed his because he said it actually made it worse, and then this video shows it still smoking and from what I can tell, WITH the catch can.

Lite Brite claimed it cured theirs, and IIRC, even showed that in some videos, but they may have been selling them, so I'm not sure if it really did, or not.

So at this point, the jury for me is out on whether the catch can fixes the extreme angle smoking, or not. But I'd still give it points if it reduces it, too.

That said, the Pentastar engineer still thinks the smoking has more to do with the engine beeing slightly overfilled, which causes the crank shaft to hit the oil, causing the smoking. Before we start a big brawl over overfilling, he said that even very, very slight overfilling can cause it at extreme angles. When I change my oil, I refill with one 5 quart jug, period. BUT, I drain it for an hour or more. He drains his Pentastar (Chrysler 300) overnight. I've not had the smoking.

So, for the guys experiencing the smoking, next time try this. Drain your oil sump on your next change overnight. That includes removing the filter so it all gets out of there, too. Then refill with EXACTLY 5 quarts. See if that impacts the smoking.
Maybe it won't, but the engineer did state that he firmly believes it is from the crankshaft hitting oil.

But he did say it is a belief, so possibly that's not it. Maybe it is just oil pooling at the back of the valve train and getting into the rearmost combustion chamber(s)? IF that's the case, I'm not sure how the catch can helps unless it is by giving it another place to go and keeping just some of it out of the rear combustion chambers. ???

Anyway, at the end of the day, smoke or not, it is good to know that the Pentastar's cam driven oil pump on each side keeps the camshafts and valve train oiled. He said it would take a rollover level angle to completely starve it. Those with other engines thinking it is a big Pentastar flaw might not realize that their engine is actually worse off while it isn't smoking at those angles.

 

[oldcjguy]

Drivers side is the "clean" side and does not pull manifold vacuum. That line goes into the air intake before the throttle body. A lot of the hellcat guys run a catch can on both sides (since the dirty side stops when it goes into boost), but the pcv side is the one that catches the most oil. The really good kits for the eco boost trucks run a dual can setup. I'm looking into one for my 2.0T. I'm going to be helping with some R&D for a guy that has a really high end kit that doesn't throw codes and any altitude and has a much higher volume dirty side can.

 

[oldcjguy]

I'm not trying to argue and I'm definitely sure your engineer friend is much more knowledgeable than I am, but...
I don't see how it matters where the oil pumps are or how many there when you are at angles. The oil pump pick up is fixed and at the same place in the oil pan. If it comes out of the oil bath the pump draws air. Also, I'm not sure I agree with the crank hitting the oil argument. There is no fire there. No place to combust the oil. Smoke out of the exhaust pipe like that means oil burning in the combustion chamber. I guess it could be possible that if the crank was hitting the oil it could splash it around significantly enough to get it up to the type of the head and into the valve cover area where the oil could be sucked into the pcv valve more easily.
I haven't pulled a valve cover on one of these motors but I think what might be happening is that extreme angles the oil could be pooling at the back of the valve cover because a drain back hole may not be at the very at the very back. Once it pools up enough and the vehicle rocks a little the pcv line (under manifold vacuum) sucks in gulps of oil. Catch cans will "catch" these larger blobs of oil and act as reservoir for a shot time, until they fill enough for the liquid oil to reach the "out" line and head to the motor. Not sure why the earlier poster's engine smoked sooner with a catch can. Maybe the can was at an angle that allowed the liquid oil in the can to get sucked in?

 

[DanW]

I'm not trying to argue and I'm definitely sure your engineer friend is much more knowledgeable than I am, but...
I don't see how it matters where the oil pumps are or how many there when you are at angles. The oil pump pick up is fixed and at the same place in the oil pan. If it comes out of the oil bath the pump draws air. Also, I'm not sure I agree with the crank hitting the oil argument. There is no fire there. No place to combust the oil. Smoke out of the exhaust pipe like that means oil burning in the combustion chamber. I guess it could be possible that if the crank was hitting the oil it could splash it around significantly enough to get it up to the type of the head and into the valve cover area where the oil could be sucked into the pcv valve more easily.
I haven't pulled a valve cover on one of these motors but I think what might be happening is that extreme angles the oil could be pooling at the back of the valve cover because a drain back hole may not be at the very at the very back. Once it pools up enough and the vehicle rocks a little the pcv line (under manifold vacuum) sucks in gulps of oil. Catch cans will "catch" these larger blobs of oil and act as reservoir for a shot time, until they fill enough for the liquid oil to reach the "out" line and head to the motor. Not sure why the earlier poster's engine smoked sooner with a catch can. Maybe the can was at an angle that allowed the liquid oil in the can to get sucked in?

No worries, man. I'm no expert, either. The main thing for me is knowing 1, the camshafts and valve train are getting sufficient oil at extreme angles, and 2, the likelihood of the condition causing engine damage is slim. He's assured me of both.

 

[DanW]

It was working great until the can was full....

Did you start with the can empty? How fast did it fill up?

Sponsored