To carry, or not to carry, that is the question (car theft & break-ins) [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[Steph1]

Depends on your skills and level of tacticalness….

Thieves normally don’t operate alone and most of them are carrying. If they see you are carrying also, most won’t hesitate to shoot you rather than just hold you at gun point.

If you have the training, carry. If you’re just a regular Joe don’t. By training I don’t mean whether you are a good shot or not, but if you know the techniques of buying space and time to avoid getting hit and shoot successfully.

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[brennaman]

There is no beauty in America when children die in schools...THAT'S AN AMERICAN THING.
It's related to the ease of getting illegal firearm.
The NRA and most gun owners are opposed to ANY gun regulations.
Because some men never wanted to stop playing Army is the reason most of us have to worry about guns everywhere and children being targets.

So what is your solution? What regulations do you think criminals will follow? Do you think we can get rid of EVERY gun in the US? You think guns are the problem (why would you go to a thread about guns? Just to let us know we need to get rid of them?) As said before, some of the most regulated cities are "gun free zones". Where I live, and more where I grew up, EVERYONE had guns, yet no murders. I do not think guns are the problem, you do. Mine are just rhetorical questions, we would disagree I am sure. I could go over gun stats, but what would be the use.

 

[Whaler27]

We sell more guns every year, but the crime keeps going up! All the experts here with all the answers but in reality, how come it’s not working? How come crime is going up not down? read this thread everybody has the answer, but how come it doesn’t work?

First, I would never suggest that increasing gun sales will cause a reduction in crime rate. I’ve never heard anybody make that argument.

Speaking only for myself, I believe the fact that I am armed reduces the likelihood that I will be a victim of violent crime. Of course, people who are poorly informed, poorly trained, and lacking in good, disciplined, firearm security practices can present a greater danger to themselves and those around them.

It’s also clear that US gun control laws have no significant impact on the ability of criminals to secure firearms. With hundreds of millions of firearms in circulation, all a person needs is some cash and a willingness to violate the law. The folks who shoot up the schools, churches, and malls have plenty of both. Is there anybody who actually believes that folks who are willing to commit armed robbery or murder will be dissuaded by the threat of a misdemeanor conviction for possession of an illegal weapon? Sheesh.

There are many influences driving crime, including rampant drug abuse, an increasingly toothless law enforcement system, community ignorance and apathy, and a wrong belief that more freebies and “services” are the solution to every criminal behavior problem.

I definitely don’t have all the answers, but I’m into my fourth decade of working in this environment, so I’m fairly fluent in what DOESN’T work.

I expect the crime rate to continue to climb in spite of the fact that some places are doing many things right. Why? Because criminals balance their choices against the associated risks. If the worst potential consequence for stealing a car is an afternoon in jail, and they know they’re unlikely to get caught, there’s no reason not to steal the car.

Finally, lots of good ideas help, including neighborhood watch, training on hardening homes and other targets, and various other strategies for educating and empowering citizens. The fact that crime continues to increase in spite of such efforts doesn’t mean these things don’t help. It just means they are insufficient to compensate for all the opposing influences:

Consider a 40 foot cabin cruiser with a garbage can-sized hole in the transom. Water is pouring in, so you, your buddy, and your son all grab five gallon buckets and start scooping water out as fast as you can, but the boat is still sinking lower. Should you conclude that bailing “doesn’t work” and stop bailing? Nope! You should holler “Bail faster! And find something to stuff into that hole in the transom!”

 

[Wbino]

So what is your solution? What regulations do you think criminals will follow? Do you think we can get rid of EVERY gun in the US? You think guns are the problem (why would you go to a thread about guns? Just to let us know we need to get rid of them?) As said before, some of the most regulated cities are "gun free zones". Where I live, and more where I grew up, EVERYONE had guns, yet no murders. I do not think guns are the problem, you do. Mine are just rhetorical questions, we would disagree I am sure. I could go over gun stats, but what would be the use.

It's not regulations per se but access.
Guns are easy to get and steal.
I'm sure a few have been stolen from Jeeps and then used to commit crimes.
Why are gun manufacturers just allowed to keep pumping out gun$?
There is money in guns and bullets but no one will speak of it, and gun manufacters are for some reason absolved of any liabilities of their product$.

 

[rickinAZ]

Yeah it says carry which I guess in some circles refers to weapons, but nothing in the post about weapons.

We must be reading different threads. Half of the posts in this thread reference shooting/guns - including every single post on this page. A simple search of this thread using the search term "gun" turns up two pages of hits.

 

[Zandcwhite]

It's not regulations per se but access.
Guns are easy to get and steal.
I'm sure a few have been stolen from Jeeps and then used to commit crimes.
Why are gun manufacturers just allowed to keep pumping out gun$?
There is money in guns and bullets but no one will speak of it, and gun manufacters are for some reason absolved of any liabilities of their product$.

Could be that pesky constitution and placing a high value on freedom and self protection getting in the way again? Criminals don't follow laws and even if you got a 2/3rds majority to amend the constitution and ban all future gun sales there are hundreds of millions already here and a southern border with free flow of immigrants/ drugs/ and firearms. Add the fact that anybody can purchase a 3d printer or small cnc mill and manufacture firearms in their garage and you'll quickly realize that criminals are the problem not guns. The vast majority of crimes are committed with illegally obtained guns. More laws do nothing to criminals and our legal system doesn't enforce the current ones, at least not for career criminals. The above comment about parking tickets in SF is a perfect example. I can throw up a tent on the sidewalk, take over entire areas that don't belong to me with broken down vehicles and trash, and build a homeless camp with impunity. They'll even show up and give me free needles, a dumpster, and Porta potties. But as a law abiding citizen they will ticket or tow my vehicle the second the meter expires. They don't care about crime or safety, just revenue generation.

 

[Wbino]

Could be that pesky constitution and placing a high value on freedom and self protection getting in the way again? Criminals don't follow laws and even if you got a 2/3rds majority to amend the constitution and ban all future gun sales there are hundreds of millions already here and a southern border with free flow of immigrants/ drugs/ and firearms. Add the fact that anybody can purchase a 3d printer or small cnc mill and manufacture firearms in their garage and you'll quickly realize that criminals are the problem not guns. The vast majority of crimes are committed with illegally obtained guns. More laws do nothing to criminals and our legal system doesn't enforce the current ones, at least not for career criminals. The above comment about parking tickets in SF is a perfect example. I can throw up a tent on the sidewalk, take over entire areas that don't belong to me with broken down vehicles and trash, and build a homeless camp with impunity. They'll even show up and give me free needles, a dumpster, and Porta potties. But as a law abiding citizen they will ticket or tow my vehicle the second the meter expires. They don't care about crime or safety, just revenue generation.

Who's THEY?

 

[Zandcwhite]

Who's THEY?

In reference to catering to the homeless population? City government, law enforcement, etc. There's a massive homeless camp right by my job in downtown San jose. Every day they are out there smoking crack, shooting up, defecting in public, etc and the local police leave them be while simultaneously ticketing jaywalkers,, people on there cell phones at stop lights, people going 5mph over the speed limit, etc that work downtown. If they can't make revenue they aren't interested. I watch it every day for the last 2 years. They have city provided dumpsters and still pile garbage/needles/etc everywhere. They have city provided toilets and still shit on the sidewalk. The city moved them all out, spent 2 weeks, at least 15 garbage trucks, and 800 man hours cleaning the park out on hazmat suits with 4 police vehicles watching all day... and they let them move back in the very next week. The war on drugs is a perfect example of laws doing nothing. 40+ years and yet overdoses are at an all time high? I'm sure if you ban guns the results will be different though...

 

[Wbino]

In reference to catering to the homeless population? City government, law enforcement, etc. There's a massive homeless camp right by my job in downtown San jose. Every day they are out there smoking crack, shooting up, defecting in public, etc and the local police leave them be while simultaneously ticketing jaywalkers,, people on there cell phones at stop lights, people going 5mph over the speed limit, etc that work downtown. If they can't make revenue they aren't interested. I watch it every day for the last 2 years. They have city provided dumpsters and still pile garbage/needles/etc everywhere. They have city provided toilets and still shit on the sidewalk. The city moved them all out, spent 2 weeks, at least 15 garbage trucks, and 800 man hours cleaning the park out on hazmat suits with 4 police vehicles watching all day... and they let them move back in the very next week. The war on drugs is a perfect example of laws doing nothing. 40+ years and yet overdoses are at an all time high? I'm sure if you ban guns the results will be different though...

Don't think banning guns is gonna happen but ownership should be limited to self protection and that's just pistols and the like. Any semi automatic AR15 type is ridiculous for personal ownership. IMHO
Regarding the homeless they should be treated as people with issues and treated at a public institution till they can better themselves. Loitering is loitering.....
Overdoses are up primarily from the company that profits off of making fentanyl, I'm sure their Wall street numbers are good.

 

[rickinAZ]

In reference to catering to the homeless population? City government, law enforcement, etc. There's a massive homeless camp right by my job in downtown San jose. Every day they are out there smoking crack, shooting up, defecting in public, etc and the local police leave them be while simultaneously ticketing jaywalkers,, people on there cell phones at stop lights, people going 5mph over the speed limit, etc that work downtown. If they can't make revenue they aren't interested. I watch it every day for the last 2 years. They have city provided dumpsters and still pile garbage/needles/etc everywhere. They have city provided toilets and still shit on the sidewalk. The city moved them all out, spent 2 weeks, at least 15 garbage trucks, and 800 man hours cleaning the park out on hazmat suits with 4 police vehicles watching all day... and they let them move back in the very next week. The war on drugs is a perfect example of laws doing nothing. 40+ years and yet overdoses are at an all time high? I'm sure if you ban guns the results will be different though...

You're right it's certainly a major societal issue. Every single person in this forum is 2-3 life mistakes from living in that camp. The occupants certainly don't want to be there. We need to save some blame for the Billionaires pushing Oxycontin.

FACT: the #1 reason for teenage homelessness is being thrown out by their parent for coming out as gay. Sad stuff.

 

[txj2go]

charts and graphs are great, but it’s not working! Why is crime going up not down? Why are all of my automotive forums trying to keep their cars from getting stolen now ? What changed and how does it stop ?

For the answer go back to post #93.
People will do what they can get away with. If more people are stealing cars and getting away with it, they will keep doing that. If they aren't getting caught, prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned then crime goes up. I think a lot of people would support more "caught, prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned" but maybe not enough people, or not enough vocal people who want to get involved.

 

[RAMSTEEL]

We sell more guns every year, but the crime keeps going up! All the experts here with all the answers but in reality, how come it’s not working? How come crime is going up not down? read this thread everybody has the answer, but how come it doesn’t work?

What does selling guns have to do with lowering crime rates? People buy guns for a sense of having protection and criminals have them for obvious reasons. Crime grows because our system for certain levels of crime does nothing to abate it. People have learned through social media that you can walk into Lowes or Home Depot, steal whatever you want, and dash away. Employees cannot stop you (they'll get fired) and there's rarely a security person. Same thing with vehicle break-ins, it's super quick and easy to get away, and since insurance pays the loss the police have bigger fish to fry. More and more criminals are starting to figure out the legal system's capabilities and do a risk/reward assessment. Add flash mobs to this as well. Normally non-violent in the sense of no weapons but certainly overwhelming and brutal. There are not enough cops to solve this issue...again, insurance pays.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/murder-homicide-rate
BTW, if you go here, plug in other countries like Germany, etc., and the murder rate trends are very similar.

Murder rates actually went down for many years and not until 2020 did they spike back up. Haven't looked why but we've had a flood of weapon purchases when the last democratic president was elected because folks fear new gun laws (ADMIN: not trying to get political, just stating party lines and cause/effect of gun purchasing trends).

So, to your question...the types of crimes that have increased do not lend themselves to managing the cause/effect of guns. I'm not drawing my gun because someone is stealing a TV from Walmart. I'm not stopping a flash mob, etc. The elevation of the use of deadly force has to be applied to situations that warrant the loss of life/limb.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

BAC would take care of it. (Big Ass Comet)

 

[RAMSTEEL]

In reference to catering to the homeless population? City government, law enforcement, etc. There's a massive homeless camp right by my job in downtown San jose. Every day they are out there smoking crack, shooting up, defecting in public, etc and the local police leave them be while simultaneously ticketing jaywalkers,, people on there cell phones at stop lights, people going 5mph over the speed limit, etc that work downtown. If they can't make revenue they aren't interested. I watch it every day for the last 2 years. They have city provided dumpsters and still pile garbage/needles/etc everywhere. They have city provided toilets and still shit on the sidewalk. The city moved them all out, spent 2 weeks, at least 15 garbage trucks, and 800 man hours cleaning the park out on hazmat suits with 4 police vehicles watching all day... and they let them move back in the very next week. The war on drugs is a perfect example of laws doing nothing. 40+ years and yet overdoses are at an all time high? I'm sure if you ban guns the results will be different though...

The police don't fund or manage homeless issues. If they ticket them, do you think they're paying the fine? No, so the city typically tells the police force what role they'll play in the homeless situation. City councils have the responsibility to figure out how to handle it and unless the residents are willing to pay a lot of money, those camps are the next best thing. I saw this in Hawaii and it blew me away.

Drug war - it's a different game now. It's not about growing weed and harvesting cocaine. Chemists can make super drugs and just the slightest amounts can kill you. The war continues but the enemy got way smarter and way quicker and it was easier to source, hide, and distribute. I feel for law enforcement, I honestly don't know how they make a dent in this process. I'll just say that if you're in the drug business and you've distributed something that is capable of killing...you should never see the light of day and I'm ok with the death penalty. Laced pot was a rare thing growing up and folks have certainly overdosed but nowadays it's crazy-level scary. Accidentally touching things that kill kids outright.

 

[RAMSTEEL]

For the answer go back to post #93.
People will do what they can get away with. If more people are stealing cars and getting away with it, they will keep doing that. If they aren't getting caught, prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned then crime goes up. I think a lot of people would support more "caught, prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned" but maybe not enough people, or not enough vocal people who want to get involved.

I spent three years in a victim protection program after catching the ring of bike thieves that took my motorcycle back in the early 2000s. I had a "special" USAA adjuster assigned to me because two bikes were stolen in six months. Long story short, I caught someone selling my fairings on eBay on Christmas Eve (45 days after stolen, insurance already paid me) and I bought the items and arranged to pick them up in Richmond that Saturday. I called Falls Church police that took the theft reports and they said we'll get back to you next week. Called the state police and they were basically punting me back to Falls Church. So I called the USAA guy that was assigned to watch since I'm sure they thought I was fencing stolen bikes Sent him everything via email and within 30 minutes the state police and falls church called. State police set up a sting on that Saturday to pick up the parts posing as me and busted the bike shop with dozens of stolen motorcycles traced my engine down to a shop in MC and other stuff up to Baltimore.

After that, three years of plea deals, delays, new dates, some of them died in accidents, others fled, etc., finally, after three years I was done. The juice was not worth the squeeze to do the right thing.

I will never do that again. The system is not supportive of these things unless they are handed to them on a silver platter or the insurance company (they had a financial stake) pushes them.

BTW, during that three years, they were all out on bond...doing what they do.

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