Ticking Timebomb?

[displayname]

One of many. Another one is the weight of the engine, making it not viable for the 2-door wrangler, due to the likely un-acceptable handling characteristics, less space for the DEF tank, etc.

Oh yes, those points have been tossed around, and they are valid.
But once they made all the EV announcements I really took that as the diesel potentially being in trouble for long term development.

Sponsored

 

[GtX]

Not sure anyone is bashing the Diesel motor - what can possibly be wrong with choice.

If anything, I am lamenting the lack of a 6-cyl turbo gas engine. Almost every automaker is offering a gasoline turbo-6. Except Jeep, Dodge, Chrysler.

I guess my question to you is, are you enjoying the diesel per se, or are you enjoying the torque of a 6-cyl turbo engine? If you had the choice of a 6cyl turbo gasoline engine like say an Ecoboost 3.0, which has more power, same torque, lower cost, much lower weight, would you not like it as much?

That is what Ford is finding on the F-150. The Ecoboost 6 are better in every aspect and preferred by buyers, so they killed the diesel.

Enjoying the diesel? Yes. Very much.
I waited 20 years for a 4 door diesel Wrangler. Ordered a 2020 site unseen.
If the ED acts up I'll delete, swap, or buy a 392.

 

[sourdough]

I love my 2012 6.7 Cummins diesel which has BooKoo emissions and 80K trouble free miles. FCA's 3.0 diesel scares me. Never been a fan of FixItAgainTony engineering and would not own one outside of a warranty.

 

[grimmjeeper]

I love my 2012 6.7 Cummins diesel which has BooKoo emissions and 80K trouble free miles. FCA's 3.0 diesel scares me. Never be a fan of FixItAgainTony engineering and would not own one outside of a warranty.

Fiat doesn't make the 3.0. VM Motori does. They've been making diesels since the 1940s.

 

[DaltonGang]

Fiat doesn't make the 3.0. VM Motori does. They've been making diesels since the 1940s.

Maybe so, but their engines havent been jam packed with emissions systems since the 1940's.

.

 

[sourdough]

Fiat doesn't make the 3.0. VM Motori does. They've been making diesels since the 1940s.

I could not find who engineered the final development the A428 DOHC version in the Wrangler 3.0 but I did find the histroy of VM Motori ownership. Fiat Powertrain Technologies is plausible in my mind since the motor as many applications derived from a base 2.8 origin. The 3.0 A428 has come about in their ownership time period.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_Motori
History[edit]
VM Motori was founded by two entrepreneurs, Claudio Vancini and Ugo Martelli (hence the "VM") in 1947.
VM merged with Stabilimenti Meccanici Triestini in Trieste in 1971, then Finmeccanica took a majority stake in the combined company. The company was referred to as "Finmeccanica VM" for many years.[1]
In 1989, Finmeccanica restructured, selling its stake in VM Motori to company managers and Midland Montague in a leveraged buyout, leaving the company with its single Cento plant.

Detroit Diesel Corporation (DDC) bought VM Motori in 1995. In 2000, DDC was purchased by DaimlerChrysler AG.
In 2003, Penske Corporation purchased a 51% stake in VM Motori; in 2007, Penske bought the remaining 49% from Detroit Diesel Corporationand subsequently sold 50% of it to General Motors.[2] As of 2007, both deals were awaiting European regulatory approval and the value of the deal was not known.
In September 2008, GAZ Group announced plans to purchase a 50% stake from Penske Corp,[3] but ultimately cancelled them in February 2009.[4]

On 11 February 2011, Fiat Powertrain Technologies and Penske Corporation had reached an agreement under which Fiat Powertrain would purchase Penske Corporation's fifty-percent stake in VM Motori S.p.A.[5][6]
Fiat Group Automobiles acquired the remaining 50% stake of VM Motori S.p.A. owned by General Motors,[7] on 28 October 2013.[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Powertrain_Technologies

 

[Austintatious]

I could not find who engineered the final development the A428 DOHC version in the Wrangler 3.0 but I did find the histroy of VM Motori ownership. Fiat Powertrain Technologies is plausible in my mind since the motor as many applications derived from a base 2.8 origin. The 3.0 A428 has come about in their ownership time period.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_Motori
History[edit]
VM Motori was founded by two entrepreneurs, Claudio Vancini and Ugo Martelli (hence the "VM") in 1947.
VM merged with Stabilimenti Meccanici Triestini in Trieste in 1971, then Finmeccanica took a majority stake in the combined company. The company was referred to as "Finmeccanica VM" for many years.[1]
In 1989, Finmeccanica restructured, selling its stake in VM Motori to company managers and Midland Montague in a leveraged buyout, leaving the company with its single Cento plant.

Detroit Diesel Corporation (DDC) bought VM Motori in 1995. In 2000, DDC was purchased by DaimlerChrysler AG.
In 2003, Penske Corporation purchased a 51% stake in VM Motori; in 2007, Penske bought the remaining 49% from Detroit Diesel Corporationand subsequently sold 50% of it to General Motors.[2] As of 2007, both deals were awaiting European regulatory approval and the value of the deal was not known.
In September 2008, GAZ Group announced plans to purchase a 50% stake from Penske Corp,[3] but ultimately cancelled them in February 2009.[4]

On 11 February 2011, Fiat Powertrain Technologies and Penske Corporation had reached an agreement under which Fiat Powertrain would purchase Penske Corporation's fifty-percent stake in VM Motori S.p.A.[5][6]
Fiat Group Automobiles acquired the remaining 50% stake of VM Motori S.p.A. owned by General Motors,[7] on 28 October 2013.[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Powertrain_Technologies

Yup. And under GM's ownership is when the 3.0 ED was developed, originally intended for the Cadillac line.

 

[sourdough]

Yup. And under GM's ownership is when the 3.0 ED was developed, originally intended for the Cadillac line.

For clarification what is the source of that info? GM has a straight 6
I did find on Morris 4x4 site that the 2.8 jeep motor was a VM Motori motor and the 3.0 was developed from it.
https://www.morris4x4center.com/knowledge-center/2-8l-jeep-diesel-engine/

 

[Austintatious]

For clarification what is the source of that info? GM has a straight 6
I did find on Morris 4x4 site that the 2.8 jeep motor was a VM Motori motor and the 3.0 was developed from it.
https://www.morris4x4center.com/knowledge-center/2-8l-jeep-diesel-engine/

Like I posted, it was during GM's ownership period that they prototyped the 3.0 with VM for use in the Cadillac CTS/SRX. GM pulled out when they filed for bankruptcy in 2009. VM continued development of the 3.0ED and GM later took their diesel production in-house.

There are several online sources of this information, for example:

"VM, now 100% owned by Fiat, ushered the former Cadillac diesel to completion in the form of the 3.0L turbodiesel V-6 in the Ram 1500."

https://www.wardsauto.com/technology/after-killing-vm-motori-program-gm-takes-cadillac-diesel-house

And another:

"Industry sources tell us that a version of the EcoDiesel was originally being developed for use in the Cadillac CTS, which makes sense, as any company that wants its luxury sedans to be taken seriously in Europe needs to offer an oil burner. The Caddy version bit the dust in GM’s 2009 march to bankruptcy"

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15114104/2014-ram-1500-ecodiesel-v-6-first-drive-review/

 

[samorris960]

Spoke to the dealership this afternoon and the response was they have no idea what to do. The term the service tech used is "we are stumped". Now that is really encouraging when the certified diesel and Jeep mechanic put their heads together and stumped is the outcome.

Guess I won't be seeing my new Jeep for a while.

You ever get a resolution on this?

 

[Mack.]

So I had been looking at the diesel for a while and it seems like the way people talk about the Engine/Exhaust system these have a limited lifespan until costly repairs are expected. What is everyone’s plan as these start getting into the 70-100k mile range?

Diesels are very high-compression high torque engines. You take a tiny 2.4 engine with max compression and torque and put it in a heavy SUV and what could possibly go wrong? As for the gas 2.0, it takes 2 turbos to make it have any type of power? Damn. The old TJ 2.5 was a fraction of the weight of these new ones and not known for their highway performance. I loved my 97 Sport 2.5 5 speed. It was a great around-town scooter.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Diesels are very high-compression high torque engines. You take a tiny 2.4 engine with max compression and torque and put it in a heavy SUV and what could possibly go wrong? As for the gas 2.0, it takes 2 turbos to make it have any type of power? Damn. The old TJ 2.5 was a fraction of the weight of these new ones and not known for their highway performance. I loved my 97 Sport 2.5 5 speed. It was a great around-town scooter.

What? What 2.4L engine? I never heard the 2.0L Gas Turbo had more than one turbo attached.

Our diesel in the USA is 3.0L V6 engine with plenty of power. But the smaller diesel used in Europe/Australia has been going for some time now or was until it was discontinued.

 

[Mack.]

What? What 2.4L engine? I never heard the 2.0L Gas Turbo had more than one turbo attached.

Our diesel in the USA is 3.0L V6 engine with plenty of power. But the smaller diesel used in Europe/Australia has been going for some time now or was until it was discontinued.

Well ya might want to check into the new JL 2.0 twin turbo. My daughter has a 2019 Sahara 2.0 twin turbo, my youngest son has a 2023 JL Sport S 2.0 twin turbo, mine is the 2018 JL Sport S 3.6, my oldest sons has a 99 4.0 TJ, and my wife has a 2000 Sahara 4.0 automatic. As for the 2.4 diesel yes they did exist and were dropped for some of the reasons I listed. First hand info from an English friend from the UK who spends 4 months each year in Florida, and a broker in Germany who I sell and ship cars to. So I just don't know what to tell ya.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Well ya might want to check into the new JL 2.0 twin turbo. My daughter has a 2019 Sahara 2.0 twin turbo, my youngest son has a 2023 JL Sport S 2.0 twin turbo, mine is the 2018 JL Sport S 3.6, my oldest sons has a 99 4.0 TJ, and my wife has a 2000 Sahara 4.0 automatic. As for the 2.4 diesel yes they did exist and were dropped for some of the reasons I listed. First hand info from an English friend from the UK who spends 4 months each year in Florida, and a broker in Germany who I sell and ship cars to. So I just don't know what to tell ya.

I remember a 2.4L gas engine in TJ. Horrible fuel mileage for a 4cyl power was pretty bad also

2.8L diesel in JK and a 2.2L diesel in JL in Euro/Oceanic markets. 2.2 seems to have good power.

Our diesel in the United States is EcoDiesel 3.0L V6. Which is what is being discussed in this forum you are in. Has plenty of power HP and torque.

The new 3.0 Hurricane Engine will be twin turbo.

This entire thread is riddled with misinformation.

 

[GtX]

This entire thread is riddled with misinformation.

And it seems to be getting worse.

Sponsored