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Think twice before buying a 4xe

sixspeed

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You are correct. Not sure if @sixspeed was referring to wanting a totally flat load floor all the way to the front seat backs or if they got confused and didn't understand how the 4xe seats fold down because it is so different.
I confess to not knowing any particulars of the 4xe backseats. I do know know the back seats in my 2020 Rubicon do not fold completely flat. When trying it with the 4xe, they wouldnā€™t even go down to a 45 degree angle. The gap protector was also differentā€”smaller and one piece. Please enlighten me if Iā€™m missing something. I do like the 4xe.
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Storm Cloud

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I confess to not knowing any particulars of the 4xe backseats. I do know know the back seats in my 2020 Rubicon do not fold completely flat. When trying it with the 4xe, they wouldnā€™t even go down to a 45 degree angle. The gap protector was also differentā€”smaller and one piece. Please enlighten me if Iā€™m missing something. I do like the 4xe.
Did you try removing the headrests?
 

DiscoJL

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Folding seats on 4xe and its particular 'characteristics' have been discussed here multiple times.
You can google '4xe folding rear seats' and find youtube videos or pictures of it folded very easily.
It probably didn't fold because the seat bottoms are not lifted up.
 

Jocko

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I confess to not knowing any particulars of the 4xe backseats. I do know know the back seats in my 2020 Rubicon do not fold completely flat. When trying it with the 4xe, they wouldnā€™t even go down to a 45 degree angle. The gap protector was also differentā€”smaller and one piece. Please enlighten me if Iā€™m missing something. I do like the 4xe.
I'd recommend a quick Google search for "4xe fold rear seats" to enlighten yourself. Honestly, after a year and a half of the 4xe being in the wild, you think you would be the first person to discover that the rear seats can't fold down?
 

Tncdrew

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After owning several Jeeps over the last 45 years, and knowing when it comes to quality and reliability issues, Jeep consistently has ranked in the very bottom tier, and the last company I'd choose to purchase a new tech. hybrid EV from.... but that's just my opinion.

Just can't help but chuckle thinking about reading through this thread back in the 80's - 90's when I had CJ's, (and yeah, they were crappy then too).
As a company, Jeep has always been the "Redheaded Step-Child" šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£
 

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Ten4Jeep

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My train of thought for reliability is either go full ICE or full Electric and base that choice on what your main objective is for that vehicle. These hacked up hybrid designs, like FCAā€™s e-Torque and 4xe, are too much tech thrown together to accomplish what full Electric or Full ICE do way better independently. Itā€™s like a bunch of beta-testers where the consumer is paying the testing costs. No real value to the consumer, especially in resale value when your hybrid vehicle has a few years/miles on it šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚. I know I wouldnā€™t want a long-term, used hybrid!! Maybe a couple decades from now the product will be better, but Iā€™m not willing to foot the bill by being a Guinea pig for the automakers.
 

dcmdon

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Maybe a couple decades from now the product will be better, but Iā€™m not willing to foot the bill by being a Guinea pig for the automakers.
This is the problem. 4xe is a version 1.0 product. FCA's first real hybrid since its electrically pretty much identical to the system in the Pacifica that came out a few years ago.

In contrast, Toyota has been making hybrids for 25 years. Their hybrid systems are in some of the most reliable cars sold.

So if you are buying a Toyota, your "maybe a couple of decades from now" statement is NOW.

But not if you are buying a Jeep. A couple of decades from now is a couple of decades from now. ha.
 

Ten4Jeep

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Based on this JL forum, looks like the Full ICE JLs have a lot of issues as it is.
Agreed! However, my main point is RESALE VALUE. Resale for ICE should remain pretty good as prospective buyers understand they may heave to deal with engine maintenance like oil changes and tuneups given that ICE engines have between 100k - 200k miles life expectancy. Even buyers of used Full EVs give thought to possibly having to replace battery pack one day, but not have any engine maintenance as full EVs use motors, which are very reliable and have proven themselves in continuous duty service in most industries. But their is a very negative aspect with buying used hybrids that as a buyer, I will have ALL of those potential failures to consider. Too much complication and maintenance of multiple driver systems, eg; ICE engine AND battery packs, instead of just one of those. And all the complicated mechanisms and programming to make the two separate systems TRY and blend smoothly with each other.

I would never buy a used hybrid, unless it was dirt cheap! That is not good for the prospective seller šŸ˜‰
 

dcmdon

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Agreed! However, my main point is RESALE VALUE. Resale for ICE should remain pretty good as prospective buyers understand they may heave to deal with engine maintenance like oil changes and tuneups given that ICE engines have between 100k - 200k miles life expectancy. Even buyers of used Full EVs give thought to possibly having to replace battery pack one day, but not have any engine maintenance as full EVs use motors, which are very reliable and have proven themselves in continuous duty service in most industries. But their is a very negative aspect with buying used hybrids that as a buyer, I will have ALL of those potential failures to consider. Too much complication and maintenance of multiple driver systems, eg; ICE engine AND battery packs, instead of just one of those. And all the complicated mechanisms and programming to make the two separate systems TRY and blend smoothly with each other.

I would never buy a used hybrid, unless it was dirt cheap! That is not good for the prospective seller šŸ˜‰
I think again, it comes down to proven reliability.

Toyota hybrids are proven 200,000+ mile powertrains.

A friend's dad is an electrician in Manhattan. He lives out "on the island". His commute is over 100 miles per day. Back in 2008 when we had the last spike in fuel prices, he bought a Prius for his commute into NYC. (He jokes that he still has his man card because he still has his F150, though now he only drives it 3000 miles per year. Ha)

He recently traded the old Prius in on a new one. He has almost 400,000 miles on the old car. Average fuel economy for the 400,000 miles was 46 MPG.
 

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Ten4Jeep

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I think again, it comes down to proven reliability.

Toyota hybrids are proven 200,000+ mile powertrains.

A friend's dad is an electrician in Manhattan. He lives out "on the island". His commute is over 100 miles per day. Back in 2008 when we had the last spike in fuel prices, he bought a Prius for his commute into NYC. (He jokes that he still has his man card because he still has his F150, though now he only drives it 3000 miles per year. Ha)

He recently traded the old Prius in on a new one. He has almost 400,000 miles on the old car. Average fuel economy for the 400,000 miles was 46 MPG.
Thanks and that is good information! However it still does not say anything about resale. I personally would not have purchased that used Prius from him and I bet he didnā€™t get much for it on trade. I bet he really got hosed if it was a lease šŸ˜†šŸ˜‚.

Personally, I would still choose either a full ICE or full EV.
 

Jocko

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It's a chicken and egg problem. Jeep has to get something out there to start. I lease, so I'm perfectly fine being a "beta tester" of early products. I get to play around with something different for a few years and hopefully Jeep is learning things in the process so we can all have better vehicles in the future.
 

dcmdon

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Thanks and that is good information! However it still does not say anything about resale. I personally would not have purchased that used Prius from him and I bet he didnā€™t get much for it on trade. I bet he really got hosed if it was a lease šŸ˜†šŸ˜‚.

Personally, I would still choose either a full ICE or full EV.
A quick check of NADA, Cars.com and car gurus.com shows that hybrids have a higher than normal resale value at this time. Especially plug in hybrids.
 

Ten4Jeep

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A quick check of NADA, Cars.com and car gurus.com shows that hybrids have a higher than normal resale value at this time. Especially plug in hybrids.
Yes, ALL CARS have a higher than normal resale value right now, šŸ˜‚šŸ˜‚! Also, ā€œhigher than normalā€only mean that hybrids are selling higher than they normally did pre-pandemic shortages. I looked at used hybrids back in 2018 because I thought it might be interesting to experiment with one for commuting down into Houston and they were dirt cheap compared to regular ICE and full EVs. They did not hold their value at all, especially against high MPG 4-cylinder sedans. I decided not to ultimately because I didnā€™t want someone elseā€™s problems.

You are welcome to risk your money on one but keep in mind that most car purchases are far from being an investmentšŸ˜† and hybrids hold their value even less compared to ICE and full EVs.

I have a feeling these 4xeā€™s arenā€™t going to hold their value well at all, especially when the warranty runs out. I would buy a used one, but at a very heavy discount šŸ˜‰
 
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BXFXJeep

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Agreed! However, my main point is RESALE VALUE. Resale for ICE should remain pretty good as prospective buyers understand they may heave to deal with engine maintenance like oil changes and tuneups given that ICE engines have between 100k - 200k miles life expectancy. Even buyers of used Full EVs give thought to possibly having to replace battery pack one day, but not have any engine maintenance as full EVs use motors, which are very reliable and have proven themselves in continuous duty service in most industries. But their is a very negative aspect with buying used hybrids that as a buyer, I will have ALL of those potential failures to consider. Too much complication and maintenance of multiple driver systems, eg; ICE engine AND battery packs, instead of just one of those. And all the complicated mechanisms and programming to make the two separate systems TRY and blend smoothly with each other.

I would never buy a used hybrid, unless it was dirt cheap! That is not good for the prospective seller šŸ˜‰
Resale value was one of the things I considered before buying the Wrangler 4xe, as it is I'm easily saving $400 a month not buying gas, and I mostly charge for free. If I paid for charging it would cost me $100 a month vs $400 I paid in gas for the 2018 JL.

So I'm saving minimum $4,000 a year

Also the handling and performance of the 4xe is significantly better than the 3.6 and 2.0, never driven the diesel or 392 to comment on those.

After close to a year driving the 4xe, it would be impossible for me to go back to the anemic ICE Wranglers.
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