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Things Ford Got Right with the Bronco Vs the Wrangler

At Risk Ute

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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery when it comes to the Ford Bronco. Happy for the competition.

Gen 1 ripped off the Scout.

Gen 2-5 copied the K5 Blazer.

Gen 6 cribbed off the JL.

Jeep Wrangler JL Things Ford Got Right with the Bronco Vs the Wrangler 5A19246F-0B20-4345-A08F-C104D9129719
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Hennessey17

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Why would you want that, unless you live where it's not legal to run without side mirrors? Having no side mirrors is a benefit.
How much traffic is in your area? I live in downtown Milwaukee. The first time I took the doors off, within 10 minutes I was on the interstate heading down towards Chicago... it took me a long time to get used to it. I picked a lane and stayed in it... which is not normal for me.

I can see it as a plus on the trails, and it probably doesn't matter as much in smaller towns.
 

AcesandEights

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@Hennessey17 Traffic in my area...well, I passed a kid walking to the bus stop today. I should have offered him a ride. Just kidding.

I've owned a Wrangler in big cities and small. When I lived in Long Beach, CA (Los Angeles county), I had over 500 days a year of sunny weather (slight exaggeration) so the doors were off more than they were on, and it took a few days to get used to not having side mirrors. I just turned my head (and coughed), which I do anyway.

I'm pretty situational aware, so I know where cars are when I pass them and change lanes. If they are coming up on me, I usually see them in the rearview (center-mounted). But, I turn my head anyway if I want to change lanes.

You probably have a point though, I currently live in a city that has less than 10k people and little to moderate traffic. Probably makes a difference. My Jeep is used off road at least once or twice a week, with or without doors. I prefer not hitting my mirrors, which happens a lot off road (PNW overgrown trails and roads), and I don't really need them on road.

Too, I ride a motorcycle, and I removed one of my side mirrors because I hit it too often off road. I kept one because I thought it'd keep me from getting a ticket when on road. The point being, I'm used to not having much in the way of rear view, and I am used to turning my head (head on a swivel). I don't see having body mounted mirrors as an advantage. YMMV.
 
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aldo98229

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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery when it comes to the Ford Bronco. Happy for the competition.

Gen 1 ripped off the Scout.

Gen 2-5 copied the K5 Blazer.

Gen 6 cribbed off the JL.

Jeep Wrangler JL Things Ford Got Right with the Bronco Vs the Wrangler 5A19246F-0B20-4345-A08F-C104D9129719
Bronco II copied S-10 Blazer
 

Hennessey17

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@Hennessey17 Traffic in my area...well, I passed a kid walking to the bus stop today. I should have offered him a ride. Just kidding.

I've owned a Wrangler in big cities and small. When I lived in Long Beach, CA (Los Angeles county), I had over 500 days a year of sunny weather (slight exaggeration) so the doors were off more than they were on, and it took a few days to get used to not having side mirrors. I just turned my head (and coughed), which I do anyway.

I'm pretty situational aware, so I know where cars are when I pass them and change lanes. If they are coming up on me, I usually see them in the rearview (center-mounted). But, I turn my head anyway if I want to change lanes.

You probably have a point though, I currently live in a city that has less than 10k people and little to moderate traffic. Probably makes a difference. My Jeep is used off road at least once or twice a week, with or without doors. I prefer not hitting my mirrors, which happens a lot off road (PNW overgrown trails and roads), and I don't really need them on road.

Too, I ride a motorcycle, and I removed one of my side mirrors because I hit it too often off road. I kept one because I thought it'd keep me from getting a ticket when on road. The point being, I'm used to not having much in the way of rear view, and I am used to turning my head (head on a swivel). I don't see having body mounted mirrors as an advantage. YMMV.
That all makes sense... I'm pretty aware of my surroundings as well, but... I'm a pretty aggressive driver. In Chicago everybody drives fast or you get plowed over. In Wisconsin, people seem unaware of their surroundings and drive and their own personal desired rate. I look in the rear view mirror, check the side mirrors, turn my head, and do it all over a second time before turning because there always seems to be a sneaky fucker come out of nowhere just as you're making the move. I got used to no mirrors... I took the doors off in June and didn't put them back on until the end of August when I took a road trip.
 

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Since you're asking. No, there isn't anything wrong with wanting more power, but it comes at a cost, and that should be part of the conversation. Everyone is going to make their choices, but they should have enough information to make an informed decision. Comparing Ford's most powerful engine against Jeep's least powerful engine seems disingenuous.

I paid a lot of attention to the Bronco, as I had a day one reservation, day one order and only cancelled my order when I was told the wait on my day one order would be at least another 12 months, probably closer to 18 (after already waiting six months to order). I'm still active on Bronco forum(s).

Now, here's my subjective comments, based on being a customer for the Bronco. What Ford did was market the sh*te out of this thing. Almost everything they touted was a "gimmick" and directly based on Wrangler "specs" on paper. Ford didn't deliver a practical difference; more power, but only with more expensive fuel and worse mileage; "modularity" that no one will use and almost every other vehicle provides; "bead lock capable" wheels; additional lift, but at the expense of articulation; "stay-bar disconnect" that works under load, but everyone disconnects their sway bar before being under load, GOAT modes that are basically taken from the Toyota 4Runner Crawl Control and Multi-Terrain Select...we could go on and on. Ford put a spin on everything, but it's really a Toyota 4Runner knock-off designed to exceed (on paper) the Wrangler's specs.

So, "is there something inherently wrong with wanting a little more power from a gasoline engine, without wanting to spend $70k or buy a hybrid". Not at all, but Ford's offerings are not it. Jeep has more offerings to cover a wider range of needs. Ford offers "eco" or "boost", but doesn't really offer Ecoboost; additionally, it's at too high a cost (fuel cost, maintenance and overall lack of reliability).

Is there something inherently wrong with not wanting more than adequate power from a gasoline engine, and not giving up reliability or increasing cost to use?

I used worst/best numbers here:

Jeep offers the following (hp/tq; mpg)
2.0L - 270/295; 21 - 24
3.0L - 260/442; 22 - 29
3.6L - 285/260; 17 - 20
6.4L - 470/470; 14 - 17

Ford offers the following (hp/tq;mpg)
2.3L - 275/315; 17 - 21
2.7L - 315/410; 17 - 20
Braptor 3.0L - 400 (with premium fuel, torque not listed); 15 - 16
Fair points, and I get that Ford's offering likely looks better by the numbers, while not necessarily being an improvement over the competition in execution. Still don't believe that comparing the 2.7L to the 3.6L or 2.0L is disingenuous, since it's a valid option at a reasonable price costing consumers less than many Jeep options (in case you didn't notice, the 3.6L w/auto is now a $4k option, $2k for 2.0T w/auto, while the 3.6L manual is no-charge).

Conversely, comparing the 2.7L option to Jeep's many engine choices with the $70k 392 or even the power output of the 3.0L diesel or 4xe, isn't really a fair proposition, since many wanting a gasoline engine might not want a diesel, or an EV/hybrid - and NONE of those 3 additional powertrains are offered in a 2-door, while the 2.7L is.

Besides their one batch of faulty valves on the 2.7L and your anecdotal evidence of out-of-warranty twin-turbo failures (it still might be a great engine, I don't know), it still doesn't change the fact that Jeep offers nothing for consumers wanting ~400TQ from a gasoline engine outside of spending $70k+. Maybe the 2.7L wasn't the best way to implement an offering for that particular segment, but at least it's an option in that price/performance segment.

And sure, there's always trade-offs for increased performance.. often times lower fuel economy, somewhat higher cost, sometimes lesser reliability. Imo, the 3.6L and 2.0T are largely redundant, but it's baffling that Jeep can't offer a better performing gas option like the Ram 1500 does with their 5.7L HEMI v8, offering ~400HP/TQ as a reasonable sub-$3k option (on a vehicle costing far less than many Wranglers) in addition to the base Pentastar.

Even if Ford added this particular segment option in the worst way possible, I still give them a little credit for at least having the option, and it's definitely something Jeep could eventually do better (or similarly, or probably not at all).

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jaymz

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Similar gearing - yup
Similar weight - yup
Similar aerodynamics - yup.

So with the variables that actually exist factored in. Its a big difference.

Drive one. Seriously drive one. Then come back and argue with me.

The 2.7T has SIXTY PERCENT more torque than the 3.6.

I'm showing the 4dr Bronco as weighing between 4500 and 4950 lbs and the 4 door Wrangler as weighing (excluding the 4xe) between 4400 and 4800 lbs.

If we accept that for a similar layout,, the Ford weighs 300 lbs more than the Jeep, the ford still has far far better power to weight and torque to weight ratios.

Remember 410 ft-lbs of torque vs 260.

The 2.7T in the Bronco very simply provides a much better driving experience than any reasonably priced option offered in the Wrangler.

I know. I own a jeep and have about 6 hours driving a Bronco in all kinds of conditions. As an aside, the 2 door with the turbo 4 and a stick is a completely different driving experience from a loaded 4 door with the 2.7T and AT.
4 door Bronco Badlands (Google says it's comparably equipped to a Rubicon - I don't know)
315hp 410tq at 4945 pounds is equivalent to .0637HP/LB and .0829 TQ/LB.

Rubicon JLUR 285hp 260tq at 4449 pounds is equivalent to .064HP/LB and .0584TQ/LB.

Horsepower is essentially identical. The Bronco seems to shine in the torque department, but factor in the 68:1 crawl ratio for the Bronco, and a 77:1 crawl ratio for the Wrangler and things get muddy again. It gets even muddier when you see that the Wrangler has torque that ramps up, then stays relatively flat at the peak (ideal for torque) whereas the Bronco ramps up to peak, then starts to drop off almost as fast as it goes up.

That said, I'm not saying that either one has an advantage with HP and TQ, just that neither is significant enough to say one is better than the other. Though I will say that I think it is significant that the Wrangler can so closely compete with a naturally aspirated engine vs. forced induction. We all know that forced induction causes considerably more wear & tear on internal components than natural aspiration, and that should translate into better longevity for the Jeep.
 

Traveller128

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4 door Bronco Badlands (Google says it's comparably equipped to a Rubicon - I don't know)
315hp 410tq at 4945 pounds is equivalent to .0637HP/LB and .0829 TQ/LB.

Rubicon JLUR 285hp 260tq at 4449 pounds is equivalent to .064HP/LB and .0584TQ/LB.

Horsepower is essentially identical. The Bronco seems to shine in the torque department, but factor in the 68:1 crawl ratio for the Bronco, and a 77:1 crawl ratio for the Wrangler and things get muddy again. It gets even muddier when you see that the Wrangler has torque that ramps up, then stays relatively flat at the peak (ideal for torque) whereas the Bronco ramps up to peak, then starts to drop off almost as fast as it goes up.

That said, I'm not saying that either one has an advantage with HP and TQ, just that neither is significant enough to say one is better than the other. Though I will say that I think it is significant that the Wrangler can so closely compete with a naturally aspirated engine vs. forced induction. We all know that forced induction causes considerably more wear & tear on internal components than natural aspiration, and that should translate into better longevity for the Jeep.
I like the Pentastar, but in the 2 door. I feel it's inadequate for the 4 door, because of that whole vehicle weight thing. The 4 door could use a larger V6 or the 5.7 V8 (that really should have been an option).

I think all of these vehicles are a bit portly in the weight department, but Ford is heavier, configuration for configuration.

The thing I like about the Pentastar, is 87 octane and normally aspirated. This is not a super highly stressed engine, and I can see it being a good fit for a long time in our 2 door. Wringing it out up a hill pulling a small trailer, it will only be able to put out rated power and it's not enough to hurt anything. I like the 2.3T motor in the Ford, it's a solid motor for a passenger car. But a lot is being asked of it to push around a 4500 lb. vehicle. Put a trailer behind it, and you're asking for a lot more out of a smaller engine. I've been towing things since the 70's, and the small motor loses eventually.

I'm not a fan of small displacement motors in heavy vehicles. Mainly because while you can boost them to make them perform okay, high specific output from small engines usually does not result in long life from that engine. Cooling capacity is everything, heat rejection has to be right, or longevity is really shortened.
 

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Seriously, you are kidding, right?

You clearly haven't driven a 2.7t Bronco.

If you don't have 90k for a 392 and dont' want to spend $4000 on a diesel. Which is the case for 90% of Jeep buyers, you out of luck.

There is no reasonably priced engine with "more than enough" power. Like the Ford 2.7T.

The fanboyism is amazing here. Though not surprising.
There’s enough independent tests out there. Bronco is a pig and performance is severely lacking for how good their power trains look on paper.
 

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There’s enough independent tests out there. Bronco is a pig and performance is severely lacking for how good their power trains look on paper.

A pig compared to what?

Our 2.7 Bronco out runs any of our 3.6 JLs or JTs.

As expected, the Boss' 6.4 swapped Gladiator makes them all look slow.

Edit - I'm really hoping to see Jeep drops that new twin turbo I6 in the new Wrangler, the numbers look really good on that.
 
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Hennessey17

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And sure, there's always trade-offs for increased performance.. often times lower fuel economy, somewhat higher cost, sometimes lesser reliability. Imo, the 3.6L and 2.0T are largely redundant, but it's baffling that Jeep can't offer a better performing gas option like the Ram 1500 does with their 5.7L HEMI v8, offering ~400HP/TQ as a reasonable sub-$3k option (on a vehicle costing far less than many Wranglers) in addition to the base Pentastar.


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The 2.0 should be capable of handling around 350hp pretty easily, and up to 400hp... Look what Porsche, Audi, VW does with 2.0 blocks... they have different blocks for the HOs, but you can do alot with bigger turbos, stronger internal, and different tuning.

As a personal aside... normally the first thing I'd do with a turbo 4 would be to get an aftermarket tune... but the 2.0 already feels as fast as I'd feel comfortable in a Wrangler. (total personal preference)
 

Pingbling23

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A pig compared to what?

Our 2.7 Bronco easily out runs any of our 3.6 JLs or JTs.

As expected, the Boss' 6.4 swapped Gladiator makes them all look slow.
3.6 and 2.0 are base engines. they dominate the base bronco engine. 4xe dominates the 2.7. 392 dominates the braptor. then you have a diesel option for the wrangler as well. Again, jeeps lineup of power trains dominate broncos. Bronco engines look good on paper though. And crazy to think jeep does this with more reliability. It’s quite perplexing.
 

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As a personal aside... normally the first thing I'd do with a turbo 4 would be to get an aftermarket tune... but the 2.0 already feels as fast as I'd feel comfortable in a Wrangler. (total personal preference)
I really agree with this. I like gobs power, but in a squirly solid axle high CG vehicle, the 2.0t almost feels like more than necessary. I frequently find myself thinkin 'oh, I shouldn't be going this fast in a Jeep'.
 

dcmdon

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A pig compared to what?

Our 2.7 Bronco out runs any of our 3.6 JLs or JTs.

As expected, the Boss' 6.4 swapped Gladiator makes them all look slow.

Edit - I'm really hoping to see Jeep drops that new twin turbo I6 in the new Wrangler, the numbers look really good on that.
Jeep fanbois who have never actually driven a Bronco are chiming in.

What they are missing is that in a drag race when the pentastar is up turning at 6000 rpm it moves the Jeep along pretty well.

What they don't quite understand is that in real life, when you are tooling along and the motor is turning 2500 rpm and you tip in a bit looking for some gentle low RPM acceleration, the Jeep is gutless. The Bronco depends on boost in a situation like that which provides the torque to move without a downshift and 6000 rpm run.
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