Things Ford Got Right with the Bronco Vs the Wrangler

At Risk Ute

Well-Known Member
First Name
Christian
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Threads
25
Messages
676
Reaction score
1,668
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
‘21 JLR, ‘22 JLUR XR, ‘23 392 XR (on order)
Occupation
Retired Navy / Jeep Guide
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery when it comes to the Ford Bronco. Happy for the competition.

Gen 1 ripped off the Scout.

Gen 2-5 copied the K5 Blazer.

Gen 6 cribbed off the JL.

5A19246F-0B20-4345-A08F-C104D9129719.jpeg

 

Hennessey17

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brad
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
431
Reaction score
671
Location
Milwaukee
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Sport
Why would you want that, unless you live where it's not legal to run without side mirrors? Having no side mirrors is a benefit.
How much traffic is in your area? I live in downtown Milwaukee. The first time I took the doors off, within 10 minutes I was on the interstate heading down towards Chicago... it took me a long time to get used to it. I picked a lane and stayed in it... which is not normal for me.

I can see it as a plus on the trails, and it probably doesn't matter as much in smaller towns.
 

AcesandEights

Well-Known Member
First Name
Aces
Joined
Aug 19, 2021
Threads
18
Messages
1,864
Reaction score
3,443
Location
So. Oregon
Vehicle(s)
2022 Jeep Rubicon 2D, with extra guacamole
Occupation
I'm often occupied, by many things, often at the same time
@Hennessey17 Traffic in my area...well, I passed a kid walking to the bus stop today. I should have offered him a ride. Just kidding.

I've owned a Wrangler in big cities and small. When I lived in Long Beach, CA (Los Angeles county), I had over 500 days a year of sunny weather (slight exaggeration) so the doors were off more than they were on, and it took a few days to get used to not having side mirrors. I just turned my head (and coughed), which I do anyway.

I'm pretty situational aware, so I know where cars are when I pass them and change lanes. If they are coming up on me, I usually see them in the rearview (center-mounted). But, I turn my head anyway if I want to change lanes.

You probably have a point though, I currently live in a city that has less than 10k people and little to moderate traffic. Probably makes a difference. My Jeep is used off road at least once or twice a week, with or without doors. I prefer not hitting my mirrors, which happens a lot off road (PNW overgrown trails and roads), and I don't really need them on road.

Too, I ride a motorcycle, and I removed one of my side mirrors because I hit it too often off road. I kept one because I thought it'd keep me from getting a ticket when on road. The point being, I'm used to not having much in the way of rear view, and I am used to turning my head (head on a swivel). I don't see having body mounted mirrors as an advantage. YMMV.
 
Last edited:

aldo98229

Well-Known Member
First Name
Aldo
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Threads
70
Messages
8,562
Reaction score
20,885
Location
Bellingham, WA
Vehicle(s)
2018 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara, 2018 Fiat 124 Spider Abarth
Occupation
Market Research
Vehicle Showcase
2
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery when it comes to the Ford Bronco. Happy for the competition.

Gen 1 ripped off the Scout.

Gen 2-5 copied the K5 Blazer.

Gen 6 cribbed off the JL.

5A19246F-0B20-4345-A08F-C104D9129719.jpeg
Bronco II copied S-10 Blazer
 

Hennessey17

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brad
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
431
Reaction score
671
Location
Milwaukee
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Sport
@Hennessey17 Traffic in my area...well, I passed a kid walking to the bus stop today. I should have offered him a ride. Just kidding.

I've owned a Wrangler in big cities and small. When I lived in Long Beach, CA (Los Angeles county), I had over 500 days a year of sunny weather (slight exaggeration) so the doors were off more than they were on, and it took a few days to get used to not having side mirrors. I just turned my head (and coughed), which I do anyway.

I'm pretty situational aware, so I know where cars are when I pass them and change lanes. If they are coming up on me, I usually see them in the rearview (center-mounted). But, I turn my head anyway if I want to change lanes.

You probably have a point though, I currently live in a city that has less than 10k people and little to moderate traffic. Probably makes a difference. My Jeep is used off road at least once or twice a week, with or without doors. I prefer not hitting my mirrors, which happens a lot off road (PNW overgrown trails and roads), and I don't really need them on road.

Too, I ride a motorcycle, and I removed one of my side mirrors because I hit it too often off road. I kept one because I thought it'd keep me from getting a ticket when on road. The point being, I'm used to not having much in the way of rear view, and I am used to turning my head (head on a swivel). I don't see having body mounted mirrors as an advantage. YMMV.
That all makes sense... I'm pretty aware of my surroundings as well, but... I'm a pretty aggressive driver. In Chicago everybody drives fast or you get plowed over. In Wisconsin, people seem unaware of their surroundings and drive and their own personal desired rate. I look in the rear view mirror, check the side mirrors, turn my head, and do it all over a second time before turning because there always seems to be a sneaky fucker come out of nowhere just as you're making the move. I got used to no mirrors... I took the doors off in June and didn't put them back on until the end of August when I took a road trip.
 


AFD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
1,157
Reaction score
1,780
Location
Northeastern US
Vehicle(s)
2023 JL Rubicon (2DR) / 2010 CZ4A Evolution X GSR
Since you're asking. No, there isn't anything wrong with wanting more power, but it comes at a cost, and that should be part of the conversation. Everyone is going to make their choices, but they should have enough information to make an informed decision. Comparing Ford's most powerful engine against Jeep's least powerful engine seems disingenuous.

I paid a lot of attention to the Bronco, as I had a day one reservation, day one order and only cancelled my order when I was told the wait on my day one order would be at least another 12 months, probably closer to 18 (after already waiting six months to order). I'm still active on Bronco forum(s).

Now, here's my subjective comments, based on being a customer for the Bronco. What Ford did was market the sh*te out of this thing. Almost everything they touted was a "gimmick" and directly based on Wrangler "specs" on paper. Ford didn't deliver a practical difference; more power, but only with more expensive fuel and worse mileage; "modularity" that no one will use and almost every other vehicle provides; "bead lock capable" wheels; additional lift, but at the expense of articulation; "stay-bar disconnect" that works under load, but everyone disconnects their sway bar before being under load, GOAT modes that are basically taken from the Toyota 4Runner Crawl Control and Multi-Terrain Select...we could go on and on. Ford put a spin on everything, but it's really a Toyota 4Runner knock-off designed to exceed (on paper) the Wrangler's specs.

So, "is there something inherently wrong with wanting a little more power from a gasoline engine, without wanting to spend $70k or buy a hybrid". Not at all, but Ford's offerings are not it. Jeep has more offerings to cover a wider range of needs. Ford offers "eco" or "boost", but doesn't really offer Ecoboost; additionally, it's at too high a cost (fuel cost, maintenance and overall lack of reliability).

Is there something inherently wrong with not wanting more than adequate power from a gasoline engine, and not giving up reliability or increasing cost to use?

I used worst/best numbers here:

Jeep offers the following (hp/tq; mpg)
2.0L - 270/295; 21 - 24
3.0L - 260/442; 22 - 29
3.6L - 285/260; 17 - 20
6.4L - 470/470; 14 - 17

Ford offers the following (hp/tq;mpg)
2.3L - 275/315; 17 - 21
2.7L - 315/410; 17 - 20
Braptor 3.0L - 400 (with premium fuel, torque not listed); 15 - 16
Fair points, and I get that Ford's offering likely looks better by the numbers, while not necessarily being an improvement over the competition in execution. Still don't believe that comparing the 2.7L to the 3.6L or 2.0L is disingenuous, since it's a valid option at a reasonable price costing consumers less than many Jeep options (in case you didn't notice, the 3.6L w/auto is now a $4k option, $2k for 2.0T w/auto, while the 3.6L manual is no-charge).

Conversely, comparing the 2.7L option to Jeep's many engine choices with the $70k 392 or even the power output of the 3.0L diesel or 4xe, isn't really a fair proposition, since many wanting a gasoline engine might not want a diesel, or an EV/hybrid - and NONE of those 3 additional powertrains are offered in a 2-door, while the 2.7L is.

Besides their one batch of faulty valves on the 2.7L and your anecdotal evidence of out-of-warranty twin-turbo failures (it still might be a great engine, I don't know), it still doesn't change the fact that Jeep offers nothing for consumers wanting ~400TQ from a gasoline engine outside of spending $70k+. Maybe the 2.7L wasn't the best way to implement an offering for that particular segment, but at least it's an option in that price/performance segment.

And sure, there's always trade-offs for increased performance.. often times lower fuel economy, somewhat higher cost, sometimes lesser reliability. Imo, the 3.6L and 2.0T are largely redundant, but it's baffling that Jeep can't offer a better performing gas option like the Ram 1500 does with their 5.7L HEMI v8, offering ~400HP/TQ as a reasonable sub-$3k option (on a vehicle costing far less than many Wranglers) in addition to the base Pentastar.

Even if Ford added this particular segment option in the worst way possible, I still give them a little credit for at least having the option, and it's definitely something Jeep could eventually do better (or similarly, or probably not at all).

👍
 

jaymz

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jay
Joined
Aug 11, 2021
Threads
11
Messages
665
Reaction score
1,048
Location
Inland Empire
Vehicle(s)
2018 Rubicon Unlimited
Similar gearing - yup
Similar weight - yup
Similar aerodynamics - yup.

So with the variables that actually exist factored in. Its a big difference.

Drive one. Seriously drive one. Then come back and argue with me.

The 2.7T has SIXTY PERCENT more torque than the 3.6.

I'm showing the 4dr Bronco as weighing between 4500 and 4950 lbs and the 4 door Wrangler as weighing (excluding the 4xe) between 4400 and 4800 lbs.

If we accept that for a similar layout,, the Ford weighs 300 lbs more than the Jeep, the ford still has far far better power to weight and torque to weight ratios.

Remember 410 ft-lbs of torque vs 260.

The 2.7T in the Bronco very simply provides a much better driving experience than any reasonably priced option offered in the Wrangler.

I know. I own a jeep and have about 6 hours driving a Bronco in all kinds of conditions. As an aside, the 2 door with the turbo 4 and a stick is a completely different driving experience from a loaded 4 door with the 2.7T and AT.
4 door Bronco Badlands (Google says it's comparably equipped to a Rubicon - I don't know)
315hp 410tq at 4945 pounds is equivalent to .0637HP/LB and .0829 TQ/LB.

Rubicon JLUR 285hp 260tq at 4449 pounds is equivalent to .064HP/LB and .0584TQ/LB.

Horsepower is essentially identical. The Bronco seems to shine in the torque department, but factor in the 68:1 crawl ratio for the Bronco, and a 77:1 crawl ratio for the Wrangler and things get muddy again. It gets even muddier when you see that the Wrangler has torque that ramps up, then stays relatively flat at the peak (ideal for torque) whereas the Bronco ramps up to peak, then starts to drop off almost as fast as it goes up.

That said, I'm not saying that either one has an advantage with HP and TQ, just that neither is significant enough to say one is better than the other. Though I will say that I think it is significant that the Wrangler can so closely compete with a naturally aspirated engine vs. forced induction. We all know that forced induction causes considerably more wear & tear on internal components than natural aspiration, and that should translate into better longevity for the Jeep.
 

Traveller128

Well-Known Member
First Name
Robert
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Threads
1
Messages
586
Reaction score
970
Location
Oasis Idaho
Vehicle(s)
2019 Renegade Trailhawk (2022 Willys ordered)
Occupation
Volvo Master Technician
4 door Bronco Badlands (Google says it's comparably equipped to a Rubicon - I don't know)
315hp 410tq at 4945 pounds is equivalent to .0637HP/LB and .0829 TQ/LB.

Rubicon JLUR 285hp 260tq at 4449 pounds is equivalent to .064HP/LB and .0584TQ/LB.

Horsepower is essentially identical. The Bronco seems to shine in the torque department, but factor in the 68:1 crawl ratio for the Bronco, and a 77:1 crawl ratio for the Wrangler and things get muddy again. It gets even muddier when you see that the Wrangler has torque that ramps up, then stays relatively flat at the peak (ideal for torque) whereas the Bronco ramps up to peak, then starts to drop off almost as fast as it goes up.

That said, I'm not saying that either one has an advantage with HP and TQ, just that neither is significant enough to say one is better than the other. Though I will say that I think it is significant that the Wrangler can so closely compete with a naturally aspirated engine vs. forced induction. We all know that forced induction causes considerably more wear & tear on internal components than natural aspiration, and that should translate into better longevity for the Jeep.
I like the Pentastar, but in the 2 door. I feel it's inadequate for the 4 door, because of that whole vehicle weight thing. The 4 door could use a larger V6 or the 5.7 V8 (that really should have been an option).

I think all of these vehicles are a bit portly in the weight department, but Ford is heavier, configuration for configuration.

The thing I like about the Pentastar, is 87 octane and normally aspirated. This is not a super highly stressed engine, and I can see it being a good fit for a long time in our 2 door. Wringing it out up a hill pulling a small trailer, it will only be able to put out rated power and it's not enough to hurt anything. I like the 2.3T motor in the Ford, it's a solid motor for a passenger car. But a lot is being asked of it to push around a 4500 lb. vehicle. Put a trailer behind it, and you're asking for a lot more out of a smaller engine. I've been towing things since the 70's, and the small motor loses eventually.

I'm not a fan of small displacement motors in heavy vehicles. Mainly because while you can boost them to make them perform okay, high specific output from small engines usually does not result in long life from that engine. Cooling capacity is everything, heat rejection has to be right, or longevity is really shortened.
 

Pingbling23

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Threads
5
Messages
332
Reaction score
516
Location
Knoxville, TN
Vehicle(s)
2020 JLU Sahara 3.6 eTorque
Seriously, you are kidding, right?

You clearly haven't driven a 2.7t Bronco.

If you don't have 90k for a 392 and dont' want to spend $4000 on a diesel. Which is the case for 90% of Jeep buyers, you out of luck.

There is no reasonably priced engine with "more than enough" power. Like the Ford 2.7T.

The fanboyism is amazing here. Though not surprising.
There’s enough independent tests out there. Bronco is a pig and performance is severely lacking for how good their power trains look on paper.
 


Tech Tim

Well-Known Member
Summit Sponsor (Level 3)
First Name
Tim
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
Threads
14
Messages
819
Reaction score
3,192
Location
Poulsbo, WA
Vehicle(s)
4x4 of all kinds
Occupation
Part of the Northridge4x4 team
There’s enough independent tests out there. Bronco is a pig and performance is severely lacking for how good their power trains look on paper.

A pig compared to what?

Our 2.7 Bronco out runs any of our 3.6 JLs or JTs.

As expected, the Boss' 6.4 swapped Gladiator makes them all look slow.

Edit - I'm really hoping to see Jeep drops that new twin turbo I6 in the new Wrangler, the numbers look really good on that.
 
Last edited:

Hennessey17

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brad
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
431
Reaction score
671
Location
Milwaukee
Vehicle(s)
2021 Wrangler Sport
And sure, there's always trade-offs for increased performance.. often times lower fuel economy, somewhat higher cost, sometimes lesser reliability. Imo, the 3.6L and 2.0T are largely redundant, but it's baffling that Jeep can't offer a better performing gas option like the Ram 1500 does with their 5.7L HEMI v8, offering ~400HP/TQ as a reasonable sub-$3k option (on a vehicle costing far less than many Wranglers) in addition to the base Pentastar.


👍
The 2.0 should be capable of handling around 350hp pretty easily, and up to 400hp... Look what Porsche, Audi, VW does with 2.0 blocks... they have different blocks for the HOs, but you can do alot with bigger turbos, stronger internal, and different tuning.

As a personal aside... normally the first thing I'd do with a turbo 4 would be to get an aftermarket tune... but the 2.0 already feels as fast as I'd feel comfortable in a Wrangler. (total personal preference)
 

Pingbling23

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Threads
5
Messages
332
Reaction score
516
Location
Knoxville, TN
Vehicle(s)
2020 JLU Sahara 3.6 eTorque
A pig compared to what?

Our 2.7 Bronco easily out runs any of our 3.6 JLs or JTs.

As expected, the Boss' 6.4 swapped Gladiator makes them all look slow.
3.6 and 2.0 are base engines. they dominate the base bronco engine. 4xe dominates the 2.7. 392 dominates the braptor. then you have a diesel option for the wrangler as well. Again, jeeps lineup of power trains dominate broncos. Bronco engines look good on paper though. And crazy to think jeep does this with more reliability. It’s quite perplexing.
 

ODDs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2019
Threads
4
Messages
538
Reaction score
1,010
Location
Phoenix
Vehicle(s)
2019 Hella Yella Sahara
As a personal aside... normally the first thing I'd do with a turbo 4 would be to get an aftermarket tune... but the 2.0 already feels as fast as I'd feel comfortable in a Wrangler. (total personal preference)
I really agree with this. I like gobs power, but in a squirly solid axle high CG vehicle, the 2.0t almost feels like more than necessary. I frequently find myself thinkin 'oh, I shouldn't be going this fast in a Jeep'.
 

dcmdon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
244
Reaction score
324
Location
Boston and Northern NH
Vehicle(s)
2022 Gladiator Mojave
A pig compared to what?

Our 2.7 Bronco out runs any of our 3.6 JLs or JTs.

As expected, the Boss' 6.4 swapped Gladiator makes them all look slow.

Edit - I'm really hoping to see Jeep drops that new twin turbo I6 in the new Wrangler, the numbers look really good on that.
Jeep fanbois who have never actually driven a Bronco are chiming in.

What they are missing is that in a drag race when the pentastar is up turning at 6000 rpm it moves the Jeep along pretty well.

What they don't quite understand is that in real life, when you are tooling along and the motor is turning 2500 rpm and you tip in a bit looking for some gentle low RPM acceleration, the Jeep is gutless. The Bronco depends on boost in a situation like that which provides the torque to move without a downshift and 6000 rpm run.

 

Motor City Aftermarket
 
Top