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Things Ford Got Right with the Bronco Vs the Wrangler

aldo98229

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Yes, you make a long list of things where the Jeep is better than the Bronco. That's easy. But what about the areas where the Bronco is better? Will Jeep notice and improve our Wranglers to compete. After all, competition is good for everyone, right?

My list:

1) Vinyl floors with drains
Carpet is the dumbest damn thing ever put in a Jeep. It absolutely should not be standard in a Sport or Rubicon. I can see carpet standard in a 4-door Sahara or other luxury trims, but not a base model and not the off-road model. Carpet should be optional on Rubicons, Sports, and whatever the "beach" theme Jeep is called.

2) Marine grade vinyl seats
Same argument. Leather is great for the luxury models and should remain optional on a trims. Cloth sucks for both dog owners and off-roaders. A tough but nice-looking and easy-to-clean vinyl seat would be perfect.

3) Sasquatch available on 2-doors.
Ford said "yes" to their purists, and Jeep said "screw you guys". No Xtreme Recon for our purists and long time enthusiast. We don't get the good stuff.

4) Split rear seat (2-door)
The Bronco 2-door has split rear seats that fold independently and relatively flat. Much better design than the tumble bench seat in the Jeep.

What says you? In what ways can the new Bronco inspire improvements from Jeep?
Bronco’s rear seat doesn’t fold flat and can’t be removed. Meanwhile, 2-door Wrangler seat can be folded, tumbled or removed completely. I don’t want Jeep to give that up.

I don’t want vinyl covering my floors, either. If you want vinyl, make it an option.

The only real novel idea that Bronco brought to the table is that the Sasquatch package can be had irrespective of trim. But Ford forces you to add so many options that getting the Sasquatch package becomes quite expensive in the end.
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Sting.Rubicon

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OH you mean Ford forgot rear AIR VENTS and CUP Holders
 

jaymz

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Again, Nope

Wrangler 3.6 Pentastar. 280 hp, 260 ft-lbs

Ford 2.3T -
Premium fuel - 300 hp, 330 ft-lbs (SEVENTY ft-lbs more than a base wrangler)
Regular 275 hp, 313 ft-lbs

The reality if you drive one is that the power of the 2.7 is effortless. Like in day to day driving you never floor it or get close.

And on the highway, you can maintain any speed you want up and down any reasonable hill without the transmission downshifting. 260 ft-lbs of torque vs 415 ft-lbs. That's a big difference.
Horsepower and torque numbers are all but meaningless without a bunch of other variables factored in.
 

AcesandEights

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Again, Nope

Wrangler 3.6 Pentastar. 280 hp, 260 ft-lbs

Ford 2.3T -
Premium fuel - 300 hp, 330 ft-lbs (SEVENTY ft-lbs more than a base wrangler)
Regular 275 hp, 313 ft-lbs

The reality if you drive one is that the power of the 2.7 is effortless. Like in day to day driving you never floor it or get close.

And on the highway, you can maintain any speed you want up and down any reasonable hill without the transmission downshifting. 260 ft-lbs of torque vs 415 ft-lbs. That's a big difference.
You dont even post the correct numbers, and you continue to compare apples and oranges. Ok, you win, the 2.7 has more power, costs more and is less reliable.
 

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AFD

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You dont even post the correct numbers, and you continue to compare apples and oranges. Ok, you win, the 2.7 has more power, costs more and is less reliable.
Oranges? O.J. drove a Bronco one time.. 🍊

Anyway, just curious, is there something inherently wrong with wanting a little more power from a gasoline engine, without wanting to spend $70k or buy a hybrid? Just seems like you're really against the idea for some reason.

I personally think a little competition between brands is a good thing, and a factory-installed supercharger on the Pentastar would be a great choice (or the 3.0 i6 S.O.) to counter Ford's 2.7L engine option. Whether or not that particular engine sucks and spontaneously implodes at 61k miles, doesn't necessarily mean that Jeep will suddenly offer anything less reliable than what they're offering now.
 

Shark01

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Yes, you make a long list of things where the Jeep is better than the Bronco. That's easy. But what about the areas where the Bronco is better? Will Jeep notice and improve our Wranglers to compete. After all, competition is good for everyone, right?

My list:

1) Vinyl floors with drains
Carpet is the dumbest damn thing ever put in a Jeep. It absolutely should not be standard in a Sport or Rubicon. I can see carpet standard in a 4-door Sahara or other luxury trims, but not a base model and not the off-road model. Carpet should be optional on Rubicons, Sports, and whatever the "beach" theme Jeep is called.

2) Marine grade vinyl seats
Same argument. Leather is great for the luxury models and should remain optional on a trims. Cloth sucks for both dog owners and off-roaders. A tough but nice-looking and easy-to-clean vinyl seat would be perfect.

3) Sasquatch available on 2-doors.
Ford said "yes" to their purists, and Jeep said "screw you guys". No Xtreme Recon for our purists and long time enthusiast. We don't get the good stuff.

4) Split rear seat (2-door)
The Bronco 2-door has split rear seats that fold independently and relatively flat. Much better design than the tumble bench seat in the Jeep.

What says you? In what ways can the new Bronco inspire improvements from Jeep?
Simple, they are doing NOTHING right….every time you turn around Ford clusters something else. How good can a rig be if you can’t buy one? No hard tops available? Seriously?
 

Traveller128

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Weight. It's where the whole Wrangler to Bronco comparison breaks down. Weight is everything offroad, the more you have, the harder obstacles become. The more you have, the lower your fuel mileage will be, it takes X amount of power to move X amount of weight. If the motors make more power, but the vehicle is at least 500 lbs. heavier, then the motor isn't really making anymore power, it's just offsetting the load some. On paper, the numbers for the power looks better, until you realize the 2.7 is hauling around 600 lbs more weight than the similar Jeep model.

I liked the Bronco 2 door, Black Diamond. We seriously considered it when shopping for a 2 door off road capable rig for us. My wife likes the Wrangler, she's secretly wanted a Jeep for a long time, a fact that she mostly kept hidden when we were using smaller off-roaders.

I like the 2.3T motor, I had one in my Mustang, and it was a solid motor with decent power. BUT, and this is a big one, the Black Diamond 2 door weighs in over 4500 lbs with the 2.3T, and the Wrangler 2 door Willys weighs in at just a tick under 4K. The Wrangler does better on fuel, we're getting about 19.5-19.7 commuting MODIFIED with things that improve offroad capability, and it gets about 22-22.7 on the highway. Out of the box it was doing 23.5 highway, 21 commuting at 80. That's with the V6.

I found the weight chart for all the Bronco models, and it was eye opening. All the Bronco models are pigs, there's no getting around it. I really, really wanted to like them, I think the 2 door is cool looking, especially the metallic green. I really like the vintage edition they're coming out with, it looks a lot like the Broncos I grew up with. But it's still heavy, and it's still not going to get great fuel mileage because of it.

The 2.7 wasn't a great motor in the F150, I've had co-workers that have owned them, and friends that have owned the 2.7 and 3.5 ecoboost models. I work in a shop and we know people that own them, and are in touch with shops that work on them. The 2.7 was underpowered for the F150, and they broke if you towed anything. REGULARLY. The 3.5 was a less than 100K motor also, they've broken with great regularity if they were used to tow or haul with. They were undercooled, under intercooled, they leaked coolant from the turbos by 60K, they had exhaust leaks at the head, they had cooling system pump issues.

I've seen a large amount of how "good" the 2.7 was, and the 3.5 was only marginally better. It's not surprising to me that it has lower resale than the 5.0. The 5.0 just chugs along and works, the 2.7 broke. With smaller frontal area on the Bronco, I know that Ford did not magically increase cooling. That has been the bugaboo of the turbo motors, they're undercooled for sustained loads.
 

Chupacabra

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The 2.7 wasn't a great motor in the F150, I've had co-workers that have owned them, and friends that have owned the 2.7 and 3.5 ecoboost models. I work in a shop and we know people that own them, and are in touch with shops that work on them. The 2.7 was underpowered for the F150, and they broke if you towed anything. REGULARLY. The 3.5 was a less than 100K motor also, they've broken with great regularity if they were used to tow or haul with. They were undercooled, under intercooled, they leaked coolant from the turbos by 60K, they had exhaust leaks at the head, they had cooling system pump issues.
Buddy has a 2015 F-150 3.5L EB. It has spent a good amount of its life towing a large Airstream camper. Has 175,000 miles on it and has had none of the issues you describe.
 

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aldo98229

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Weight. It's where the whole Wrangler to Bronco comparison breaks down. Weight is everything offroad, the more you have, the harder obstacles become. The more you have, the lower your fuel mileage will be, it takes X amount of power to move X amount of weight. If the motors make more power, but the vehicle is at least 500 lbs. heavier, then the motor isn't really making anymore power, it's just offsetting the load some. On paper, the numbers for the power looks better, until you realize the 2.7 is hauling around 600 lbs more weight than the similar Jeep model.

I liked the Bronco 2 door, Black Diamond. We seriously considered it when shopping for a 2 door off road capable rig for us. My wife likes the Wrangler, she's secretly wanted a Jeep for a long time, a fact that she mostly kept hidden when we were using smaller off-roaders.

I like the 2.3T motor, I had one in my Mustang, and it was a solid motor with decent power. BUT, and this is a big one, the Black Diamond 2 door weighs in over 4500 lbs with the 2.3T, and the Wrangler 2 door Willys weighs in at just a tick under 4K. The Wrangler does better on fuel, we're getting about 19.5-19.7 commuting MODIFIED with things that improve offroad capability, and it gets about 22-22.7 on the highway. Out of the box it was doing 23.5 highway, 21 commuting at 80. That's with the V6.

I found the weight chart for all the Bronco models, and it was eye opening. All the Bronco models are pigs, there's no getting around it. I really, really wanted to like them, I think the 2 door is cool looking, especially the metallic green. I really like the vintage edition they're coming out with, it looks a lot like the Broncos I grew up with. But it's still heavy, and it's still not going to get great fuel mileage because of it.

The 2.7 wasn't a great motor in the F150, I've had co-workers that have owned them, and friends that have owned the 2.7 and 3.5 ecoboost models. I work in a shop and we know people that own them, and are in touch with shops that work on them. The 2.7 was underpowered for the F150, and they broke if you towed anything. REGULARLY. The 3.5 was a less than 100K motor also, they've broken with great regularity if they were used to tow or haul with. They were undercooled, under intercooled, they leaked coolant from the turbos by 60K, they had exhaust leaks at the head, they had cooling system pump issues.

I've seen a large amount of how "good" the 2.7 was, and the 3.5 was only marginally better. It's not surprising to me that it has lower resale than the 5.0. The 5.0 just chugs along and works, the 2.7 broke. With smaller frontal area on the Bronco, I know that Ford did not magically increase cooling. That has been the bugaboo of the turbo motors, they're undercooled for sustained loads.
Yup. Meet Brinco, the jumping COW.

Mooo!
Jeep Wrangler JL Things Ford Got Right with the Bronco Vs the Wrangler 1663856486296
 
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Old Jeeper

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It was substantially smaller, actually. Apple Macintoshes sold in 1986 came with a 9 inch screen (monochrome and 512x512 resolution too, of course).
How well I remeber, my first was in '84, had a Mac on my desk ever since.
 

Bill_P

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Can't tell you..shhh
Why would you want that, unless you live where it's not legal to run without side mirrors? Having no side mirrors is a benefit.
I live in one of those places so when I ordered my new Willy's I got the doors off mirrors with it.
 

Traveller128

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Buddy has a 2015 F-150 3.5L EB. It has spent a good amount of its life towing a large Airstream camper. Has 175,000 miles on it and has had none of the issues you describe.
I've seen it, watched owners dumping them by 80K because of issues they had after they were out of warranty, and a reluctance to buy another ecoboost. I've seen them break cranks before 80K, I've seen the instrumented temperatures from transmission, engine cooling and rear end oils with a 7500 lb trailer on tow package 2.7's and they were very high. In short, I've seen a lot more than a single example with issues.

The 3.5 was better than the 2.7, but it had it's own issues, and the stock cooling system is inadequate for towing. It just is, I've seen the sustained temps up a hill with load, and the trans temps are well over 250 degrees. Cooling temps in the 240 range.

The only Bronco getting the 3.5 is the big pig race version, and it remains to be seen what kind of durability it's going to have. Literally no data yet. But I wouldn't buy a 2.7 for anything, I've worked on them and don't like them.

But there's a ton of F150 2.7 data out there, and I've seen them fail where a small block 302 or 351 would have kept going for 30 years.

There's highly stressed, and there's understressed. The 2.7T in a truck towing or loaded, is under boost a lot. It's going to need to reject a lot more heat than the same truck with a larger V8 motor that's normally aspirated, for the higher specific output. Since it's more highly stressed, it's not going to make the same distance the larger and less stressed motor is going to make.
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