The sound of a Kinetic Rope failure. Damage and cost..... Plus photos of the wheeling and camping.

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wibornz

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Wow! It really does sound like a gun shot. Glad y’all are ok.

I just gotta ask, why weren’t you in 4wd while being pulled out?
My Jeep was in 4wd. My wife was driving when it got stuck and was driving during the recovery.
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wibornz

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WOW. Not being there is hard to tell but looks like a simple pull not snatch would have been fine. He was definitely sending it front the start.

sorry to hear about all the damage Ted but glad everyone is good. Would hate to see that coming through the windshield :surprised:
Yes, there is no doubt that my bud was to aggressive on the throttle. The video is the second attempt to pull it. The first gentle tug did not move it.
 
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wibornz

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Thank goodness everyone is ok, could have been so much worse!
BTW, I hate mud! Well really, I just hate cleaning mud afterwards...
I hate mud also. There was an hour of the water hose, $6 at the high pressure car wash, then a premium drive through car wash, then home for a bucket hand wash and wax and full detail on the inside. It took about 5 hours to get it clean. I would much rather be on the rocks out west.
 
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I'd agree with that. About 99% of the time I wreck, it's because of suction coming from the passenger
I have learned though experience that a gentle break in suction is often rewarding and less dangerous in real life situations.
 
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So this whole thread was posted by me so that others could learn from mistakes that were made in this recovery.

Mistake #1 Aways be in 4wd before you need it. I was in the passenger seat and my wife was driving. I had just got done flying the drone and was preoccupied with looking at the footage and not paying attention. We had been through at lest 50 waterhole like the one in the video prior to getting stuck.

Mistake #2 My bud had never used the kinetic rope before on a recovery and I did not give him clear instruction. When I use the kinetic rope, I never go over 5 mph in the tug. He was obviously trying harder.

Mistake #3 There was no rope dampener used. I thought it was going to be a very easy tug to get her out and got lazy as I was the one walking out into the mud to hook everything up. I have blankets that I carry in the Jeep that I normally use.for these type of recoveries.

Mistake #4 The specs of the rope
  • 7/8" x 30' Recovery Tow Rope with Red Eyes (Rating: 28600 lbs.)
  • Double braided nylon rope is extremely strong and flexible
  • Durable, UV resistant, waterproof polymer coating is soaked deep into the rope fibers
  • High elasticity is ideal for off-road recovery and snatching applications
  • Rubber coated eye tips provide extra protection and maximum grip
  • Includes black mesh vented bag
  • Covered by 1 year warranty
The rope.
1626951985193.png


Not sure if this is a mistake or not as there is no listing on the lifespan of the rope, but it has been used 100+ times for recoveries. No, I do not get stuck often. My Jeep has been stuck three times. I am usually the one doing the recovery. Just a couple weeks ago, I used the rope approximately 15 time in one day at the sand dunes recovering vehicles of every shape and size.

The rope did not destroy the winch. The winch is fine, the winch control box is not. The cost of the new control box and the fact that I had planed on replacing the synthetic rope in the near future, was the deciding factor in buying a new winch. I just could not see putting $400 into a three year old Smitybuilt winch. The cost of the Smitybuilt 12,000 pound X20 has gone up so that it was way closer in cost to the Warn, so I just bought the Warn as the replacement. I could've easily fixed the Smitybuilt and save approx $400. The cost was not the issue. The issue is that my jeep is going to be used for a 20,000+ mile overland trip starting in Jan of 22. So with that always at the edge of my mind, I always look to upgrade when a weakness exposes itself. I think the Factor 55 rope would not have failed in the same situation. Only time will tell.

Everything will be okay, until it is not okay. I am fortunate that nobody was hurt and the Jeep was still drivable. Good thing to because a flat tow home at 200 miles would have been a little pricey....
 

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This sort of stuff is always tricky. I have done some accredited recovery training here in Aus and here are a few things to consider. Not all this relates to the video but it's worth knowing.

First thing is the rope tagged, if it doesn't have a label with the rating etc on it I won't use it.

How old is it, they don't last for ever, the fibers stretch and loose their elasticity, no elasticity and it is a shock load, the strap is more likely to break or break something else. Some will say 10 hard snatches and they are done, I'd say more but they don't last forever and only you can decide if it has been over used, general condition is always a clue, if it looks like crap and you've had it for years it's ready to have the eyes cut off and used for something else.

Is it clean, do you keep it clean? Dirt and sand will damage the rope or strap, it'll wear, just like a pair of jeans, if it ain't clean and not kept clean it's life is shorter.

When it comes to the recover the less metal in the system the better, flying metal kills, flying rope can do some nasty injuries as well, chuck on a damper or two, even a jumper, towel or jacket will do the job. Keep everyone away from the recovery, a couple of rope lengths is a good rule. Also remember a rope or strap designed to stretch heats up on each recovery, after a couple of hard recovery attempts in a row let the strap recover, it needs time to rest and go back to it's original size and get that 10% stretch back again.

So in saying all most recoveries go well as the equipment has a safety margin and we don't push it to it's limits, but eventually it will fail :(
 

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Looks like it’s about time to tire shop, those look like they wore well, would you buy again ?
 
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Looks like it’s about time to tire shop, those look like they wore well, would you buy again ?
I would and I have. The tires have 52,000 miles on them. I have a set sitting in the garage. The Cooper STT PRO 37s have served us well. We have them on 6 JLURs with a combined milage of over 200,000. Zero flats, zero issues, zero uneven wear.no leaks, and they perform great in just about any type of terrain. From the Rubicon Trail, to Moab, the mud in Wyoming, the mountain passes in Colorado, the rocks and mud of Windrock TN, and Rausch Creek in PA, the sand dunes in Michigan, 39 badge trails all over the US and even more non-badge trails. 22,000+ of the miles were towing a camper. No crazy steering pulls. The Coopers have performed great. I am getting ready to replace them, as I have a set of five to go on. Kind of waiting as I plan to go to Drummond Island in Michigan about 700 miles round trip next month and then to Flagstaff Arizona in September. So I am trying to get every bit of life out of them. Why, because in January, I am leaving for a 20,000 mile 11 month trip and would like to have as new as possible tires on the Jeep before I leave.
 

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I would just like to thank all those that provided advice on kinetic rope, jeep recovery, and 4wd. I would especially like to thank all those that did so without having seen the video. I'm positive that @wibornz has no clue what he's doing and needs all the advice y'all can give.

Yes, I'm being snarky. I find it interesting that so many jumped on this thread, who must not be regular forum readers. OP did not post the video to receive criticism, nor advice. He's done more jeepin' and jeep recoveries (using his kinetic rope) than most of ever will.

I apologize in advance for all that take offense!
 

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So up wheeling over the weekend and been in 2wd all weekend. The trails are sandy and no real threat of getting stuck..... well or so I thought.

We are leading the pack as normal. Enter a water hole and bam stuck we are. Out comes our kinetic rope. The 2nd Jeep drives around the water hole and hooks up to pull us out. We are not super stuck. Should be an easy recovery. My bud gives it a yank and the kinetic rope breaks.

Turn up the sound. It sounds like a rifle shot through the woods.



















The rope come back to my Jeep and destroys the winch control box, and winch solenoid. Then hits the grille and bust the grille insert and caves in the AC condenser. I unhook the positive cable to winch to ensure that the exploded wires do not turn the winch or or ground out the battery. Luck is on my side though as the A/C condenser is not leaking and we still have air. We continue wheeling the rest of the day without issue.

A/C condenser
1626882453007.png


Grille insert
1626882490051.png


Winch Control box
1626882540964.png



Get home and today, finish ordering everything I need.

Bought a new Warn winch to replace the Smitybuilt X2O. The cost to get a new control box,, solenoid and wireless control module and I had planned on replacing the synthetic rope in the near future, it just made sense to upgrade to the WARN and have a new winch. The Smitybuilt had served me well, but I just could not see dropping approx 400 to 450 into the Smitybuilt winch when that money could be used to upgrade to the Warn.

I bought this for a winch $840 of Amazon. About $50 cheaper than anywhere I could find it on the web.
Warn VR EVO 12-S Winch with Synthetic Rope

I ordered a new Gladiator center grille insert. $23 at the dealer. I could find it for $13 on the web, but by the time I added shipping, most places were at the $45 range. Score one for the dealer.

The new A/C condenser was $54 + shipping and total cost was $75. I will still have to pay someone to drain the old system and recharge it after I install the condenser so there is no total cost on this.

Bought a new kinetic rope from Factor 55. Cost $170

Just the cost of wheeling.

Some pics leading up to it and the weekend in general.

Pic of the Jeep and camper heading home after the weekend.
1626882659447.png


out on the trails
1626882700536.png


1626882743011.png


1626882770310.png


1626882826402.png


1626882926334.png


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Drone flight through our base camp at a lake that is off the beating path in Northern Michigan.

I like your video style.. very well done! subscribed!
 

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The cost was not the issue.
Isn't that the truth !!!
Cost for anything "Jeep" should never be the issue. Value for your dollar spent should be the goal.
Truth of the matter is owning a Jeep and off-roading it is not a profitable, or even money saving, proposition. It's more of a cost centre with high maintenance, and rapidly declining depreciation factors. Think of it more as an entertainment budget. It's much easier to digest that way.
If a person has to worry about the money they spend after they buy a Jeep, then buying a Jeep might not have been a good choice. Just my humble 2 cents for the day :)
As an old man I once knew was fond of saying ... "It takes money to buy whiskey.".
 
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I call it the cost of wheeling. It is one thing to drive a Jeep as a daily driver and a whole different thing to drive it as a drive to wheeling location and wheel it hard vehicle. The amount of maintenance that I put into the Jeep to be able to drive it to Moab and the Rubicon Trail and wheel it then drive it back home while towing a camper trailer is on a whole different level. Than what most are doing.
For instance, I have change the diff fluid 11 times. The guys that Jeep travel with me also do a ton of extra maintenance. It is common for us to put a torque wrench on every suspension, steering component and lug nut before we head out. Out of all the wheeling we have done, the only failure we have had on the trail is one of the JLUR alternator failed.
39 badges from all over the US from coast to coast.

zero body damage….. probably just jinxed myself.

The rope failure was a surprise as it is rated well above the towing vehicle weight, but hey it’s the cost of wheeling and the Factor 55 should be an excellent replacement.

I am more happy that my wife didn’t flip the Jeep over backwards at Roush Creek.
D21B733E-1FC4-4A01-985E-EBA1D140E7F6.jpeg
 

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I’m curious what the condenser replacement is going to cost. 1234yf is expensive to work with.
 

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I call it the cost of wheeling. It is one thing to drive a Jeep as a daily driver and a whole different thing to drive it as a drive to wheeling location and wheel it hard vehicle. The amount of maintenance that I put into the Jeep to be able to drive it to Moab and the Rubicon Trail and wheel it then drive it back home while towing a camper trailer is on a whole different level. Than what most are doing.
For instance, I have change the diff fluid 11 times. The guys that Jeep travel with me also do a ton of extra maintenance. It is common for us to put a torque wrench on every suspension, steering component and lug nut before we head out. Out of all the wheeling we have done, the only failure we have had on the trail is one of the JLUR alternator failed.
39 badges from all over the US from coast to coast.

zero body damage….. probably just jinxed myself.

The rope failure was a surprise as it is rated well above the towing vehicle weight, but hey it’s the cost of wheeling and the Factor 55 should be an excellent replacement.

I am more happy that my wife didn’t flip the Jeep over backwards at Roush Creek.
D21B733E-1FC4-4A01-985E-EBA1D140E7F6.jpeg
"... probably just jinxed myself ..." Geez I hope not TED (hopefully shouting your name will unjinx it :))

As for the "cost of wheeling", I figure half as much again as the cost of your Jeep to upgrade and maintain it through a reasonable life cycle of off-roading ... but that's a flexible budget number ... LOL
 
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