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CarbonSteel

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Is the AFE close to the others?
From everything that I have read, the AFE formula changed not so long ago and the amount of PAO was reduced so it could be argued that is not as good as EP. I still have some of the "older" AFE that had the Ford 5W-20 specification on it and it performed the same as EP in my F-150. Mobil really does not make bad oil (though Mobil Super Synthetic does not really fit in the line up), so you cannot go wrong with any of it.

With that said, any of the modern synthetics carrying SN or SN+ specifications are going to be hard to beat and to compare to easily know which is "best". I like the titanium add-pack in Castrol, so I use it, but I have had good luck with M1 and Pennzoil.
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DanW

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Found this
His videos are fascinating, but they only measure a couple of the hundreds of things oils must do. Besides that, he even states that his experiments are for entertainment purposes. The bearing wear test has been 100% rejected by both the oil and automotive industry as not applicable because it does not simulate the kind of wear a motor oil is designed to prevent. There is nothing going on in an engine that the test mimicks. It would be more suitable to a gear oil, and even then it doesn't simulate the kind of wear/forces/friction that occurs with meshing gears. He also doesn't (and can't) simulate what happens around piston rings and when fuel gets into the oil, nor can he simulate what happens when burnt fuel byproducts and wear metals accumulate in the oil. There are literally hundreds of parameters that he can't simulate. Even the cold flow test is flawed because he can't get temperatures down to where the limits of these oils really are.

So, are the oils he says wins not really as good as his tests show? Well, they are probably all excellent oils. I just wouldn't pick one over another just because of what you saw in a bogus bearing test or a coffee pot hot plate.

Btw, when Slick 50 got nailed by the US Government, one of the main tests they used to make their wear prevention claims was the very bearing test that he uses in that video. In the court case, it was disproven as any kind of accurate measure of actual engine wear. The Industry uses tests developed by the Society for Automotive Engineers (SAE), and there are several accepted by both the oil and auto industries to be accurate representations of oil performance in an engine. In those tests most oils will perform pretty closely. Where they begin to separate is under extreme conditions with high heat/pressure, or in super cold conditions. They also separate when subjected to longer use and fuel dillution. Another thing he can't test for is the oil's ability to combat low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) that our 2.0 turbo DI brothers and sisters have to worry about.

So, enjoy the videos, but take the advice of the guy producing them. Watch them for entertainment value.
 
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DanW

DanW

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Is the AFE close to the others?
It is very good oil, but apparently doesn't have as high a percentage of PAO in the base stock. From what I've gathered, it does have a good bit of gas to liquid (GTL, which is Pennzoil's claim to fame.) In fact, the GTL was almost surely sourced from Shell oil, and comes from the same plant in Qatar as Pennzoil's base stock. I know of Subaru afficianados who swear by AFE because they've gotten excellent UOA's from it in their engines.

I'd have no hesitation to use it in my engine.
 

jeepdabest

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His videos are fascinating, but they only measure a couple of the hundreds of things oils must do. Besides that, he even states that his experiments are for entertainment purposes. The bearing wear test has been 100% rejected by both the oil and automotive industry as not applicable because it does not simulate the kind of wear a motor oil is designed to prevent. There is nothing going on in an engine that the test mimicks. It would be more suitable to a gear oil, and even then it doesn't simulate the kind of wear/forces/friction that occurs with meshing gears. He also doesn't (and can't) simulate what happens around piston rings and when fuel gets into the oil, nor can he simulate what happens when burnt fuel byproducts and wear metals accumulate in the oil. There are literally hundreds of parameters that he can't simulate. Even the cold flow test is flawed because he can't get temperatures down to where the limits of these oils really are.

So, are the oils he says wins not really as good as his tests show? Well, they are probably all excellent oils. I just wouldn't pick one over another just because of what you saw in a bogus bearing test or a coffee pot hot plate.

Btw, when Slick 50 got nailed by the US Government, one of the main tests they used to make their wear prevention claims was the very bearing test that he uses in that video. In the court case, it was disproven as any kind of accurate measure of actual engine wear. The Industry uses tests developed by the Society for Automotive Engineers (SAE), and there are several accepted by both the oil and auto industries to be accurate representations of oil performance in an engine. In those tests most oils will perform pretty closely. Where they begin to separate is under extreme conditions with high heat/pressure, or in super cold conditions. They also separate when subjected to longer use and fuel dillution. Another thing he can't test for is the oil's ability to combat low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) that our 2.0 turbo DI brothers and sisters have to worry about.

So, enjoy the videos, but take the advice of the guy producing them. Watch them for entertainment value.
Well, Dan, I wish you and Carbon Steel would just take the damn time to research this stuff.;)
 

cb4017

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Interesting. I use the Mopar filters and have not noticed any twisting.

I also use Rotella Gas Truck with good results. I have a UOA or two posted on the site.
 
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DanW

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Interesting. I use the Mopar filters and have not noticed any twisting.

I also use Rotella Gas Truck with good results. I have a UOA or two posted on the sight.
I've seen others with the Mopar that didn't twist much. Like I said, mine thinks it is Chubby Checker! LOL! I think RGT is a great oil. I expect a stellar UOA. If they keep paying me to run it, I'll just keep using it. Heck, I'll even take it for free! With the price of oil right now and nobody driving, it is possible, right? Lol!
 

CarbonSteel

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I've got an M1 and a used Mopar. When I get a chance, I'll measure them out. So far, in order of most twist to least, for me it has been M1, Mopar, Fram. I never oiled the flat end of them until the M1 I just installed, so we'll know probably in the fall.

Good idea on measuring them! I've found so far that it just doesn't seem to make a difference how much I tighten the cap. The least I've tightened it was on the M1, which again, twisted the most. Odd.

I'll let youknow what I find.
@DanW - did you have a chance to measure the filters? I am curious what you found.
 

roaniecowpony

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Yep; no difference--oil or not. This is what I have observed thus far:
  • The Mopar OEM (MO-349) and WIX filters (WL10010) have twisted, The WIX has a fixed small end (end with the o-ring), I cannot remember what the OEM Mopar had.
  • FRAM Ultra (XG11665) and Hastings (LF-697) have not twisted and have a free-spinning small end (end with the o-ring).
  • Mahle (OX1213D) filters have not twisted and have a fixed small end (end with the o-ring).
I took all 4 of the new filters out of the box and compared them and tried to take some measurements.

From Left to Right in the photo (below):


Mahle (OX1213D):

4-7/8" Filter Body
6-3/16" Base to End (O-Ring End)

Hastings (LF-697):

5" Filter Body
6-1/4" Base to End (O-Ring End)

FRAM Ultra (XG11665):

5" Filter Body
6-1/4" Base to End (O-Ring End)

WIX (WL10010):

5-1/16" Filter Body
6-5/16" Base to End (O-Ring End)
  • The WIX is the longest of the filters (base to end) which may explain why it twisted (it has a fixed end).
  • The Mahle is the shortest (base to end) which could explain why it did not twist. (it has a fixed end)
  • Both the FRAM and the Hastings are the same length which may the correct length, but these filters also have a free-spinning end which may help prevent twisting.
@DanW - do you have a Mopar and M1 filter to measure? We could create a list of them with the numbers.

JuCEhX.jpg
I measured 8 Wix WL 10010XP filters at between 4.810" to 4.835" from one end of the body cap to the other (flat to flat).

No twist. But a slight bulge in the pleats.
P_20200506_134734.jpg
P_20200506_134746.jpg
P_20200506_134758.jpg
 
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CarbonSteel

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I measured 8 Wix WL 10010XP filters at between 4.810" to 4.835" from one end of the body cap to the other (flat to flat).
What is it from end to point (o-ring tip)? I found that a few of the filters had shorter (or longer) tip ends that changed the overall measurement.
 

roaniecowpony

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What is it from end to point (o-ring tip)? I found that a few of the filters had shorter (or longer) tip ends that changed the overall measurement.
6.135", But I don't think this is a critical dimension in how the filter registers. I believe the filter gets contained between the two flat ends of the element.
 

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@DanW - did you have a chance to measure the filters? I am curious what you found.
I forgot! Sorry! I'll try and do it tonight. It's plenty dried out now, so it won't make a mess when I do it, Lol. I still want to tear it apart, too, to see how it is constructed.
 

CarbonSteel

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6.135", But I don't think this is a critical dimension in how the filter registers. I believe the filter gets contained between the two flat ends of the element.
I tended to think it did since the filters that I had with ends that freely rotated did not twist like the ones with fixed ends. However, I could be wrong about that and will have to take a closer look on my next OC.
 

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Has anyone tried a NAPA Gold oil filter?
I used them in my Ford V8 trucks seemed to work well for those.
 

CarbonSteel

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Has anyone tried a NAPA Gold oil filter?
I used them in my Ford V8 trucks seemed to work well for those.
Unless something has changed recently NAPA Gold = WIX
 
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DanW

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What is it from end to point (o-ring tip)? I found that a few of the filters had shorter (or longer) tip ends that changed the overall measurement.
How do you want me to measure it? End cap to tip, or end cap to end cap?
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